M.D./Ph.D. Programs

[IWantToBeFreud]

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Hello everyone. I'm new to this wonderful forum, so please go easy on me 😳.
I'm writing because I want to attend medical school and focus on psychiatry. Ideally I'd like to have my own practice and treat patients in psychoanalysis. Does anyone know of a M.D./Ph.D. program that results in an M.D. and Ph.D. in psychotherapy or (ideally) psychoanalysis? Any further information or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

P.S. - I also may be interested in going to medical school in England as I am a dual-citizen. Thanks!

 

[TheWowEffect]

Hello everyone. I'm new to this wonderful forum, so please go easy on me 😳.
I'm writing because I want to attend medical school and focus on psychiatry. Ideally I'd like to have my own practice and treat patients in psychoanalysis. Does anyone know of a M.D./Ph.D. program that results in an M.D. and Ph.D. in psychotherapy or (ideally) psychoanalysis? Any further information or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

P.S. - I also may be interested in going to medical school in England as I am a dual-citizen. Thanks!

I don't think you need to go through MD/PhD program in US to become a psychoanalyst. This route is traditionally taken by candidates who want to do basic Neuroscience research. Of course, there might be variations.

Psychoanalytic institutes are the way to go. You don't have to go to med school to join them. In case you do, most people go for Early Admissions Psychoanalytic Programs while in residency. I am provinding links to some prominent institutes in US-

www.psychoanalysis.org/

www.med.nyu.edu/psa/

www.mpi-mps.org/

www.analysis.com/pine/

www.washpsa.org/

www.philanalysis.org/

There are so many more. I would suggest you google them.

 

[whopper]

Similar question was asked a few weeks ago, but don't worry. Lots of the same questions are re-asked by each new year of students & residents going through the same problems as the older ones.

Hopefully whatever residency program you eventually enter will adequately teach you on psychotherapy. During your application & interview process, research the strength of the psychotherapy of the program. If your program does not satisfy your curiosity with psychotherapy & analysis, any nearby college with a prominent psychology department or program in counseling will also be able to direct you to other sources. The information given above is also excellent.

There is also psychotherapy & analysis fellowships available though are not common.

IMHO, psychiatrists should also take a class in Abnormal Psychology.

 

[cleareyedguy]

I know of one person who did get an MD and a contemporaneous PhD in psychodynamic research, but it's very unusual.

You're probably referring to analytic training, which takes about as much time as a PhD (4-7 years) but gets you a certificate not a degree.

If you are absolutely sure that you want an outpatient psychoanalytic practice, you should consider psychology grad school. The medical route will require a big detour from that goal. On the other hand, medicine provides experience you won't get in psychology school (e.g., meds, medical problems, increased patient responsibility), probably affords more job flexibility and income, and you may have other reasons for medicine.

 

[IWantToBeFreud]

Thank you all very much for your thoughtful and informative replies.

I'm still wrestling with psychiatry vs. psychology career choice. As I said in my initial post, my goal is to have my own private practice where I treat patients with psychotherapy or psychoanalysis. My desire to want to go to med school and pursue psychiatry is driven mostly by the prestige, job flexibility, and additional money that goes along with a MD. I'd really like to setup an "old-fashioned" practice where the psychiatrist is capable of handing out medicines but also manages the actual "talking" component of the therapy.

The route that some friends have suggested is going to med school at a school with a strong psychotherapy component in their psychiatry department, completing residency, and then earning a certificate in psychoanalysis. Is that a sound plan?

Thank you for more thoughts and advice.

P.S. - You can tell from my posting name whom I am most influenced by 😎.

 

[Anasazi23]

You're most likely not going to get formal training in analysis in either type of school, be it medical or psychology. Many residents are involved with analytic institutions while they are in residency. I know they are at my program, and others in NYC.

 

[Chimed]

I'm still wrestling with psychiatry vs. psychology career choice. As I said in my initial post, my goal is to have my own private practice where I treat patients with psychotherapy or psychoanalysis. My desire to want to go to med school and pursue psychiatry is driven mostly by the prestige, job flexibility, and additional money that goes along with a MD. I'd really like to setup an "old-fashioned" practice where the psychiatrist is capable of handing out medicines but also manages the actual "talking" component of the therapy.

The route that some friends have suggested is going to med school at a school with a strong psychotherapy component in their psychiatry department, completing residency, and then earning a certificate in psychoanalysis. Is that a sound plan?

Sure, that is a reasonable plan. Many will tell you that it's not, but it can be done. You will most likely, however, limit yourself to specific locations in the country where your patients can afford to pay cash.

I wouldn't be so concerned about going to a medical school that has psychoanalysis, as it is unlikely you'll get exposure to it until residency. As Sazi said, many of the NYC programs have a strong association with a psychoanalytic institute. I'm at a program that has a very strong link an institute and there are several residents that have chosen to begin formal training to become an analyst.

 

[whopper]

The route that some friends have suggested is going to med school at a school with a strong psychotherapy component in their psychiatry department, completing residency, and then earning a certificate in psychoanalysis. Is that a sound plan?

Sounds logical, but just getting into medical school is difficult for many. Getting to be able to pick one out because of psychotherapy may be tough. I wouldn't be surprised if the interviewers for several medschools knew little or nothing of the quality of psychotherapy their rotations offer.

Also, medschool is a lot of hard work with little emphasis on the pscyhiatry & the behavioral sciences. Most of your colleagues will not share your enthusiasm for psychiatry. Psychiatry is only 6 weeks of a 4 year medical school curriculum. I doubt they'd teach you much psychotherapy during those 6 weeks (repeating above).

You could of course do electives in psychiatry as a medical student, but will you be able to find an elective that allows you to do that as a medical student with no formal training in it at that point where you're just going to leave a few weeks later? I don't think so.

If you're determined to go into medical school for psychiatry, don't be deterred, just be prepared for what I mentioned.

My advice--find out which hospitals are attached to the medical school's psychiatry rotations, then consider the reputation of that program if you're going to use this as a criterion to choose a medical school.

Focus more on learning psychotherapy as a resident, not a medical student. You're going to be too preoccupied with memorizing the Krebs cycle.

If you choose psychiatry--hang in there. I wanted psyche, and entered medical school specifically for that field. It was hard going through biochem, & the histo slides. By the time you reach 3rd year, your rotations will heavily involve you dealing with patients on a one-to-one level which makes it fun (at least by my Myers Briggs type).

When you pick a residency, pick one with the best psychotherapy emphasis you can find. Consider doing a psychoanalytic fellowship.

 

[solumanculver]

Hey,
I don't want to spark any kind of psychology vs. psychiatry debate, but if a person is in the OP's case and wants only to practice psychoanalysis, what is the practical benefit of pursuing an MD and psychiatry residency versus getting a psychology PhD? For that matter, if a person just wants to do psychoanalysis, could they just get the MD, forgo the residency, and go to a psychoanalytic institute? Or better yet, get an MSW and then go to the psychoanalytic institute?

Of course, I don't think any of that is a very good idea because it is so career limiting, but if a person was dead-set on this career path and wouldn't change their mind... Why not pick a cheaper and shorter educational path?