M-Zero Gays

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I would also like to know who out there is heterosexual like me.
 
I would also like to know who out there is heterosexual like me.
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Then start your own damn thread.

Hope that Helps

P 'Thread Nazi' ShankOut
 
I would also know who out there is caucasian like me.

If you think these questions are stupid then you know how I feel about the OP. Same type question.

So, no, I won't start my "own damn" stupid thread. I have this one. Thank you.
 
you really should start your own thread tryin. that is ridiculous to jump in like that!
 
I've stated my opinion. Please resume normal posting for this topic. Sorry for the inconvenience.
 
I am not gay, but here is a letter that I wrote to my extended family about the subject of gay rights:

I am bisexual and I have been as long as I can remember. I like both men and women, and could easily see myself falling in love with one or the other and wanting to spend the rest of my life with that person. But let?s say, I find out that my soulmate is a man. Let me tell you some of the rights that every strait person takes for granted, but I won?t have.

Obviously, with two guys, we are not able to naturally have a child. So let?s say we adopt a boy. Only one of us can have guardianship, so let?s say my partner (named John from here on) decides to be the person who adopts a darling 2 year old boy. Then 5 years down the road, after our boy Jimmy is in first grade, John dies in a car accident. Who do you think would have custody of Jimmy??? It sure wouldn?t be me. I would be about 10th in line, after his parents, siblings, aunts and uncles. In order to become recognized as Jimmy?s father (Which I have been for as long as Jimmy remembers) I would have to spend countless legal fees in order to hopefully (assuming John?s family doesn?t object) get legally recognize as my sons dad.

Or let?s say I are work at a job and John stays at home to raise Jimmy. And instead of dying in the car accident, he becomes a quadriplegic. Do you think my job would have let me put John on my insurance??? Of course not. While it is standard practice for wives of all working men to be covered by the employer?s health insurance, this is not the case for homosexual. So instead of having a cheap insurance that everybody else gets, I would either have to pay for a much more expensive outside plan, or Jimmy would have to be without insurance.

Or let?s say time goes by, and I die at the age of 50. Do you think the other John would be able to get my assets so he could live out the rest of his life??? In most cases, if the husband dies the wife automatically gets all of his possessions. Not the case here. John would not get the tax breaks that a heterosexual couple would get and he would end up receiving a ton less of my money after the lawyer fees and all of that stuff.

My point of this E-mail is that homosexual people are being discriminated against every day. I am not actually gay, but I wanted to personalize this. Homosexuals right now are asking for equal rights as everybody else. The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, which I interpret as being able to marry the person who you believe is your soulmate. 70 years ago, women fought for the right to vote. 50 years ago black people fought for the right to site on the bus and drink from the same fountains as white people. I personally believe that homophobism is just as bad as sexism and racism, but it is being constantly practiced across this country, and it is not something that I will tolerate in people close to me.
 
i don't understand why people reply to such threads that shouldn't even interest them at all.

tryinagain - don't you think that maybe it's qualities like your closemindedness that kept you out of med school the first time around? or am i totally misinterpreting what "tryinagain" refers to? just maybe it's your inability to conceive that there may be people that are different than you that would turn an adcom off and make folks like you spend all of that time and $$$ applying more than once. i think sf's just trying to find where there will be people guaranteed to think oppositely of you -- and more like him. couldn't that possibly merit a thread, especially given all of the other inane ones that are out there? get a life already.

back to the op - university of chicago for me.
 
I have a life thank you. I have absolutely nothing against gays. Its not my personal preference but I am open minded about it. I just thought this thread was a little odd.

Sorry for the offense.
 
Oh, and tryingagain means that I took the Mcat twice. I only applied once, this year. Hope that helps you understand my closemindedness.
 
Originally posted by tryingagain
I just thought this thread was a little odd.
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No, not odd at all. It's pretty typical and healthy for people to look for fellowship and support from others who are dealing with similar issues. There are lots of issues related to being gay in general, and to being gay in the field of medicine in particular. This thread is completely reasonable. If it's a subject that you aren't relating to, just move on to something else 🙂 .
 
Why is everyone coming down hard on tryingagain?!? it's not like he/she said anything discriminatory about gay people. There wasn't anything offensive either. How can you even beging to call tryingagain closeminded when he/she hasn't said anything close to being descriminatory! sounds like its the other way around!
 
Why is everyone coming down hard on tryingagain?!? it's not like he/she said anything discriminatory about gay people. There wasn't anything offensive either. How can you even beging to call tryingagain closeminded when he/she hasn't said anything close to being descriminatory! sounds like its the other way around!
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🙄 When people are trying to establish a community for support, why should someone who's not part of that community have to put their 2 negative cents in? And it's that sort of anti-gay sentiment that's probably keeping people from replying to the OP.

His initial posting wasn't offensive per se, but his reply to indianboy's posting was:

I would also know who out there is caucasian like me.
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Why'd he have to go there? 🙄
 
Just wondering if there were any other GLBT applicants for 2004 out there. If anyone wants to chat about going through the process, how out to be (if at all), picking schools, whatever, post here, or PM me.

And for anyone who wonders why I am posting this, or thinks that this has not point, no place on SDN, etc., I think womansurg sums it up very well in her post. Being gay does add a level of complexity to going through this process that I had not anticipated would be there to the degree that it is. It would be nice not to have to post this at all. But the reality is that homophobia is still alive and well both in our society at large, and in the field of medicine. Hence, it is nice to find support wherever it can be found.

And Jalby thanks for posting your letter 🙂 I think it does take personalizing this issue to help end homophobic attitudes and actions.
 
I'm tri-sexual, I'll try anything once. And if I like it I'll keep on doing it: guy, girl, plastic doll, hands, feefee, or a 98 degree microwaved ham. j/k.
 
Originally posted by azpremed

Being gay does add a level of complexity to going through this process that I had not anticipated would be there to the degree that it is.
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Why? Do you talk about this with your interviewers? I don't really see how being gay is relevent during the medical school application process. Personally, I've never mentioned to anybody responsible for getting me into medical school that I have sex with women, nor would I ever do so. It's unprofessional and I have no idea how it became accpetable for gays and lesbians to do just that. Regardless of whether or not you specifically come right out and say "I have sex with people of the same gender", declaring your sexuality to anyone who will listen amounts to the same thing. When people tell me that they're gay, the first thing that goes through my head is, "So. Why in the heck are you telling me this? I never told you I like women, so why did you feel it necessary to involve me in something that should be relatively private, i.e. between you and that person?"

There is obviously a double standard in place when it comes to this "advertising" of sexual preferences. When I was an intern at Hewlett Packard some summers back, the other interns and I had an orientation session where a manager bragged about all the different organizations available for employees, including a Gay and Lesbian group. At the time I remember being confused as to how a professional company like HP could have an organization that, by definition, concerns sexual preference. There was no mention of a heterosexual group, BTW. Basically, I'm just wondering how it became acceptible to bring up sexual preference in professional settings. You can bet I'm never going to put the word "heterosexual" on my resume, so why would anyone put "homosexual" on their AMCAS application or in their personal statement?

I really would like to know this if anyone is willing to explain. Feel free to PM me also.

--Putting on my flame-******ant suit now--
 
The simplest answer, wolferman, is that there is a universe of experience beyond what you yourself are experiencing and beyond how you are affected by things. I don't mean this in an unkind way.

Being gay has little to do with the act of sex or with what occurs in the privacy of one's bedroom. If that's all it were, then there would be no angst, torment or controversy. But in fact there is tremendous conflict surrounding the decision to not live a life of falsehood, concealing one's sexual identity. Tremendous conflict.

To continue to lie and conceal is to continue to allow persecution, discrimination, bigotry, untrue stereotypes, and hatred. Living under such conditions is life threatening - both figuratively, in terms of the person's spirit, and literally, in terms of a person's personal safety. The decision to live as an openly gay person brings tremendous challenge and hardship, yet is a critically important step in overcoming societal bigotry.

Of course it makes sense for members of this community to seek support in sharing each other's company and experiences. As a heterosexual person living in a heterosexual world, I realize that these experiences are foreign to you, yet they are harshly, eminently real to the people living them.

-ws
 
Originally posted by wolferman
Why? Do you talk about this with your interviewers? I don't really see how being gay is relevent during the medical school application process. Personally, I've never mentioned to anybody responsible for getting me into medical school that I have sex with women, nor would I ever do so.
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Maybe he wants to find out which schools other people find supportive?
Maybe the poster listed his involvement in his school's Gay/Lesbian organizations on his AMCAS and DID get questions about it during interviews?
Maybe his family wasn't supportive of him and he wrote about it in a secondary question?
 
Originally posted by NUcat
Maybe he wants to find out which schools other people find supportive?
Maybe the poster listed his involvement in his school's Gay/Lesbian organizations on his AMCAS and DID get questions about it during interviews?
Maybe his family wasn't supportive of him and he wrote about it in a secondary question?
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Gee, it was nice of you to list all those obvious things NUcat. Still, I'd rather read azpremed's response since that's who I was asking (as indicated by the quoted text in my post).
 
Actually, the last line of your post was:

I really would like to know this if anyone is willing to explain. Feel free to PM me also.
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Touch? NUcat! Mea culpa. You were just being helpful.
 
Originally posted by wolferman
Gee, it was nice of you to list all those obvious things NUcat. Still, I'd rather read azpremed's response since that's who I was asking (as indicated by the quoted text in my post).
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Well NUcat did hit some of the reasons why I posted this. Also, I should say that I am female and I use both the terms lesbian and gay to describe my identity.

There are SO many reasons why this can be an issue for someone in this process that I almost don't even know where to start. So before we get to the interview situation where you began your post let's go way back to where I am now, thinking about where to apply. If you are gay or lesbian and you are out, this is an issue when deciding what schools to apply to. I personally have been out since age 16 and want to find a place that I am going to be comfortable being myself. Medical school is going to be difficult enough to get through without worrying about dealing with other people's ignorance and prejudice on a daily basis. The rather hostile response to the past gay and lesbian thread on SDN, as well as my own personal experience and that of many GLBT friends with homophobic doctors, as well as published studies on GLBT doctors and patients, all demonstrate that homophobia has a definite presence in the medical profession. So being gay or lesbian is going to play a role in what school one feels most comfortable at, as is being a member of a racial or ethnic minority, or a particular religion, or a person who prefers rural to urban areas, etc. Given the relative invisibility of GLBT people in the medical profession, it is often hard to tell what the atmostphere at a given school is going to be like. Thus, GLBT pre-meds and med students have to network to gather information about the schools. Hence, it is something that must be considered in making the decision about what schools to attend.

Okay, so let's say now I have decided which schools to apply to. Great. So I head over to my pre-med advisor and we talk about scores, and GPA, and clinical work, and then we get to my list of activities. Now like many on this board I am somewhat non-trad and had another career direction before I decided I wanted to be a doctor. And some of these activities/jobs I did are for GLBT community groups. This was never a problem when I was working in other fields but now my pre-med advisor, who admits she has never dealt with this issue before and has no clue what to say, gets out a handbook for pre-med advising and finds one paragraph related to this issue which states: "a 1998 survey found that 30% of admissions committee members would reject an applicant who had gay and lesbian things on his/her application, and 45% of doctors surveyed said that gays and lesbians should not be allowed to become psychiatrists and pediatricians." So she advises to leave the stuff off. If I do there is a large hole on my application, I am leaving off activities and jobs I did which were very important to me, and I am living a lie. If I leave it on I run the risk of being rejected because of it.

Then the question arises about the personal statement and secondary essays. For me personally being a lesbian had little to do with my becoming a doctor so I will not be discussing it in my PS. However, maybe for other people it did play a role. I was a member of a group that worked to improve access to health care for GLBT students at my first college. The guy who founded the group felt that wanting to fight homophobic are of GLBT patients was one major reason why he decided to go into medicine. Why, as you suggest, is it inappropriate for him to include this experience in his personal statement?

Secondaries, from what I have seen, seem to ask questions about how you will bring diversity to the class, what obstacles you have overcome in your life, what have been your experiences (non-clinical) in which you have served others? For some GLBT people the experiences that we go through everyday provide excellent answers to these questions. I can tell you that for many GLBT people coming out is a very difficult process, especially if they have family who are not very supportive. Coming out in high school was very difficult for me (thankfully I had a family that was supportive eventually) and I can say that it was one experience which instilled in me a desire to help others and work to end inequality and discrimination in the world. Being out at a college where homophobic and racists acts of harassment and vandalism took place on a daily basis in my freshman dorm was another challenge that shaped me very significantly in this way and also taught me more about working with diverse groups of people than I could have gotten anywhere else. Maybe I want to use some of these experiences in these essays because they answer the question. Somehow, I don't see that as "'advertising' my sexuality" as you put it. Further, note that NOWHERE above have I mentioned sex, dating, or anything related to my personal life. Discussing being a lesbian does not have to do with sex. It is about overcoming prejudice, self-doubt, stereotypes, and gaining many qualities such as confidence, compassion, appreciation of differences, and strength.

So before I even get to the interview I am forced to decide if I am going to present a complete picture of myself and what I have done over the past 6 years and risk being rejected due to someone's prejudice, or if I am going to censor my application to play it safe. If I take the latter and I go to the interview it could be difficult to be myself when I am being forced to hide part of who I am and what I have accomplished. I may not have a good interview. Then again, I've had so much practice at hiding who I am that maybe it'll go just great. I may not be able to get a good feeling for how comfortable I would be at the school since I will be hiding a part of me. If I do include the stuff in the essays it may go just fine, or it might turn into an awful interview if the interviewer has prejudices.

For the above reasons I would argue that being GLBT does have a place in the admissions process. My experiences as a lesbian may not have directly motivated me to become a doctor, but they will have an influence on the type of doctor I become and the experiences I bring to my medical school class. Having to worry about prejudice in the admissions process, at medical school,and once in the medical profession is a real concern for GLBT applicants. The point of having a thread like this is to give GLBT people a forum to address some of these concerns.

This is also the point of having a GLBT group in a workplace, like the one you found at HP. GLBT employees of a company can have many concerns about diversity and prejudice in the workforce, and whether the company gives domestic partner benefits and has non-discrimination in hiring and employment policies. In addition, these groups often work with HR to help make the working environment more comfortable for GLBT people. I was in one of these groups at my former corporate job and I can assure you that it had NOTHING to do with sex, dating, picking up colleagues, etc. In fact, its functions were similar to the group I was in for Latino/a employees as well. I am not sure why you find such a group unacceptable. Do you also object to groups for employees of different races and ethnicities? Companies are proud to offer them because it shows employees that they care about their workers. Most companies value a diverse workforce and this is one component of diversity.

I need to end this monster of a post and get back to my MCAT studies and homework. I hope I have provided some clarification for you wolferman and anyone else reading this thread. Peace.
 
Originally posted by azpremed
I hope I have provided some clarification for you wolferman and anyone else reading this thread. Peace.
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Oh, you definitely have. I appreciate you sharing your experiences and incites regarding this issue. It helped answer many of the questions I had. I also appreciate the fact that you realized I wasn't attacking gays and lesbians, but really trying to understand their point of view.

Do you also object to groups for employees of different races and ethnicities? Companies are proud to offer them because it shows employees that they care about their workers. Most companies value a diverse workforce and this is one component of diversity.
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As far as having organizations for minorities, I do not object to this. Being a minority myself, I could at least imagine some issues that these organizations might address, even if I didn't feel like I needed such a club. However, not being gay, it was a little tougher for me to wrap my mind around the obstacles that such a lifestyle encounters.

Again, thanks for your response and I wish you the best of luck in the application/interview process.
 
Originally posted by wolferman
Oh, you definitely have. I appreciate you sharing your experiences and incites regarding this issue. It helped answer many of the questions I had. I also appreciate the fact that you realized I wasn't attacking gays and lesbians, but really trying to understand their point of view.
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Wolferman,

I'm glad you found my response helpful and that I was able to answer some of your questions. And I do appreciate the fact that you are trying to learn and understand. I think if we can all learn to do that in many aspects of our lives, we can help to break down a lot of stereotypes and misunderstandings that people have about lots of issues. Best of luck to you with this process and future career 🙂
 
Wow, Azpremed.....well put. Thanks for adding your perspective on what seems to be a hot topic on here. I hope your response helps people reach some understanding of why diversity training is so necessary.

Every time I see one of these threads I'm amazed that a lot of the people responding with contempt or irritation are actually contemplating being doctors. As doctors, it is necessary that we deal with each individual patient as a person, not as a stereotype.

I hope that all of the people on here that have difficulties relating to individuals different from themselves (whether that means gay, lesbian, minorities, people with dwarfism, people with physical deformities, etc) get some help with diversity training, understanding, and compassion before they actually enter practice.

Peace to all.
 
Over at USC, there is a huge gay program and I think our dean of students has a great sense of fashion.
 
Just wanted to bring this one back. Hopefully it won't fuel immature comments. I'm gay, out, but it doesn't define my application. I will be starting med school next year at UCSF. Seems like the perfect place. If any applicants in a similiar situation have questions, please feel free to ask me. Also, if you get into Yale, I can try to put you in touch with a cool, out Yale MD who can answer any questions, Im sure.
 
Originally posted by jtheater
Just wanted to bring this one back. Hopefully it won't fuel immature comments. I'm gay, out, but it doesn't define my application. I will be starting med school next year at UCSF. Seems like the perfect place. If any applicants in a similiar situation have questions, please feel free to ask me. Also, if you get into Yale, I can try to put you in touch with a cool, out Yale MD who can answer any questions, Im sure.
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right on jtheater- bringing this thread back to its original purpose.

ive got an acceptance at pritzker, but my first choice is yale, so if things go right (crossing fingers), i'll have to get some info from you (are you an undergrad there?).

as far as the application process goes, i think it would be neat if we also discussed the interview/application process.....

i did mention being gay in my amcas personal statement because while ive wanted to be a doc for a while, it definately influenced my final decision to actually go ahead and apply. i'd say about 2-3 of my interviewers brought it up and about 4-5 never mentioned it ormade vague references to their school being 'liberal' or 'open' (mt sinai, yale). my student interviewer at penn had read my app before hand and actaully had a laundry list of reasons why she thought penn was a ***-friendly school! no mention of it at pritzker, but the students who i toured with kinda 'figured it out' and mentioned pros that chicago had.

all in all, ive been suprised with how cool everyone has been about the whole process, though i only applied to top-tier, urban schools......anyone have different experience?
 
Originally posted by azpremed
Well NUcat did hit some of the reasons why I posted this. Also, I should say that I am female and I use both the terms lesbian and gay to describe my identity.

There are SO many reasons why this can be an issue for someone in this process that I almost don't even know where to start. So before we get to the interview situation where you began your post let's go way back to where I am now, thinking about where to apply. If you are gay or lesbian and you are out, this is an issue when deciding what schools to apply to. I personally have been out since age 16 and want to find a place that I am going to be comfortable being myself. Medical school is going to be difficult enough to get through without worrying about dealing with other people's ignorance and prejudice on a daily basis. The rather hostile response to the past gay and lesbian thread on SDN, as well as my own personal experience and that of many GLBT friends with homophobic doctors, as well as published studies on GLBT doctors and patients, all demonstrate that homophobia has a definite presence in the medical profession. So being gay or lesbian is going to play a role in what school one feels most comfortable at, as is being a member of a racial or ethnic minority, or a particular religion, or a person who prefers rural to urban areas, etc. Given the relative invisibility of GLBT people in the medical profession, it is often hard to tell what the atmostphere at a given school is going to be like. Thus, GLBT pre-meds and med students have to network to gather information about the schools. Hence, it is something that must be considered in making the decision about what schools to attend.

Okay, so let's say now I have decided which schools to apply to. Great. So I head over to my pre-med advisor and we talk about scores, and GPA, and clinical work, and then we get to my list of activities. Now like many on this board I am somewhat non-trad and had another career direction before I decided I wanted to be a doctor. And some of these activities/jobs I did are for GLBT community groups. This was never a problem when I was working in other fields but now my pre-med advisor, who admits she has never dealt with this issue before and has no clue what to say, gets out a handbook for pre-med advising and finds one paragraph related to this issue which states: "a 1998 survey found that 30% of admissions committee members would reject an applicant who had gay and lesbian things on his/her application, and 45% of doctors surveyed said that gays and lesbians should not be allowed to become psychiatrists and pediatricians." So she advises to leave the stuff off. If I do there is a large hole on my application, I am leaving off activities and jobs I did which were very important to me, and I am living a lie. If I leave it on I run the risk of being rejected because of it.

Then the question arises about the personal statement and secondary essays. For me personally being a lesbian had little to do with my becoming a doctor so I will not be discussing it in my PS. However, maybe for other people it did play a role. I was a member of a group that worked to improve access to health care for GLBT students at my first college. The guy who founded the group felt that wanting to fight homophobic are of GLBT patients was one major reason why he decided to go into medicine. Why, as you suggest, is it inappropriate for him to include this experience in his personal statement?

Secondaries, from what I have seen, seem to ask questions about how you will bring diversity to the class, what obstacles you have overcome in your life, what have been your experiences (non-clinical) in which you have served others? For some GLBT people the experiences that we go through everyday provide excellent answers to these questions. I can tell you that for many GLBT people coming out is a very difficult process, especially if they have family who are not very supportive. Coming out in high school was very difficult for me (thankfully I had a family that was supportive eventually) and I can say that it was one experience which instilled in me a desire to help others and work to end inequality and discrimination in the world. Being out at a college where homophobic and racists acts of harassment and vandalism took place on a daily basis in my freshman dorm was another challenge that shaped me very significantly in this way and also taught me more about working with diverse groups of people than I could have gotten anywhere else. Maybe I want to use some of these experiences in these essays because they answer the question. Somehow, I don't see that as "'advertising' my sexuality" as you put it. Further, note that NOWHERE above have I mentioned sex, dating, or anything related to my personal life. Discussing being a lesbian does not have to do with sex. It is about overcoming prejudice, self-doubt, stereotypes, and gaining many qualities such as confidence, compassion, appreciation of differences, and strength.

So before I even get to the interview I am forced to decide if I am going to present a complete picture of myself and what I have done over the past 6 years and risk being rejected due to someone's prejudice, or if I am going to censor my application to play it safe. If I take the latter and I go to the interview it could be difficult to be myself when I am being forced to hide part of who I am and what I have accomplished. I may not have a good interview. Then again, I've had so much practice at hiding who I am that maybe it'll go just great. I may not be able to get a good feeling for how comfortable I would be at the school since I will be hiding a part of me. If I do include the stuff in the essays it may go just fine, or it might turn into an awful interview if the interviewer has prejudices.

For the above reasons I would argue that being GLBT does have a place in the admissions process. My experiences as a lesbian may not have directly motivated me to become a doctor, but they will have an influence on the type of doctor I become and the experiences I bring to my medical school class. Having to worry about prejudice in the admissions process, at medical school,and once in the medical profession is a real concern for GLBT applicants. The point of having a thread like this is to give GLBT people a forum to address some of these concerns.

This is also the point of having a GLBT group in a workplace, like the one you found at HP. GLBT employees of a company can have many concerns about diversity and prejudice in the workforce, and whether the company gives domestic partner benefits and has non-discrimination in hiring and employment policies. In addition, these groups often work with HR to help make the working environment more comfortable for GLBT people. I was in one of these groups at my former corporate job and I can assure you that it had NOTHING to do with sex, dating, picking up colleagues, etc. In fact, its functions were similar to the group I was in for Latino/a employees as well. I am not sure why you find such a group unacceptable. Do you also object to groups for employees of different races and ethnicities? Companies are proud to offer them because it shows employees that they care about their workers. Most companies value a diverse workforce and this is one component of diversity.

I need to end this monster of a post and get back to my MCAT studies and homework. I hope I have provided some clarification for you wolferman and anyone else reading this thread. Peace.
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I thought I knew about the challenges and struggles one faces when they "come out," but now I realize how wrong I was. This thread is indeed very eye opening, even to those of us who *think* we know how easy/hard it may be on others. Like they say--don't judge before you walk a mile in his/her shoes. Your post is very inspiring and informative; I wish everybody could read this and understand what the struggles are really about. Truly eye-opening and thank you for sharing something so personal with us.

Kudos and good luck in med school.
Tweetie
 
ok here is hoping this will turn out a little differently than the last time I tried to start one of these threads....

but i've had a positive experience being out during the process. I talked about comming out in my personal statement just as I talked about back packing around Europe, both were experiences during my Junior year that really helped give me more life experience and served to broaden my perspective on my life and strengthen my interest in medicine.

Im going to Mount Sinai as of now. (though I guess im still holding an NYU acceptance because im still going back and forth). My interviews were mixed, but this seemed more due to a generational gap than anything else.

I was not expecting so many of my interviewers to be 60+ year old men. So some doctors seemed unconfortable and not sure of how to politely talk about gay subjects and we talked mostly about my life NYC or my junior fall abroad.

I think some schools could do more to educate their interviewers because in some cases I really felt like I was the first person gay person that this doctor had every interracted with on a personal level. (Columbia, Darmouth, and Georgetown all fell into this category) In those cases it wasn't negative experience but I can think of two doctors who really got stuck on that one aspect and I had a hard time trying to make sure it didn't dominate the conversation. My application was not about being gay, and I didn't want my interview to be either.

A couple schools, NYU, Penn (student but not faculty), Albert Einstein, and Cornell had interviewers who brought the subject up comfortably and stressed their schools interest in diversity.

Columbia and Penn ended up being my mutual first choices. Waitlisted at the first and waiting on the other. My favorite interview experiences were Mt Sinai and AE.

My 60+ year old Mt Sinai interviewer did not mention that part of my essay until the end. He brought it up as "so hows this gay thing been working out for you? have other schools given you a hard time about this?" (or something like that) When I said no not really, he told me all about how the chief of cardiac surgery had just been on the front page of the style section with his husband, and how things had changed, and that NY was different. He then told me that I was a good kid and he would see what he could do for me.... He was really funny.
 
I've read this thread, but I admit, i skipped over azpremed's post because it was ungodly long. but I'm glad tweetie posted about it because it made me read it and I'm happy I did. I think it was very well written and I really empathize about everything that GLBT people have to endure, it doesn't seem fair that adcoms would reject them just because of something like that. hopefully things will change for the better a bit faster than they have been, especially now when progress is at a standstill at best.
goodluck to everyone overcoming prejudices and not letting them get in your way.
 
Modern civilization is full of superficial virtues and hidden vices. Boy? Girl? Who can account for taste?
 
Tweetie and Moskeeto, thank you for your kind words. My hope when I posted was that some people reading it would take something positive away from it. I am glad that it can serve that purpose.

indiemd and jamylk02,

Thank you for posting about your interview experiences. Since I will be doing this next cycle, it is very helpful for me to hear. It is also good to hear you had pretty positive responses to being out in your applications. My advisors have been advising that I be cautious especially due to the older doctors who often do the interviews. And while I have a personal statement in which I am not out, I do not feel I can go through the process leaving things off my application and not discussing certain experiences in my interviews. So it's good to hear being out will not necessarily bring on the doom and rejection some of them have warned me about. Thanks again for posting and good luck with everything next fall 🙂
 
I hate to spark an argument here, but the reason why there is discrimination against homosexuals still is because we were NEVER intended to be with someone of the same sex. Don't get me wrong, I have friends that are gay, and love them just like all my other friends, but if they ask, I'll tell them that what they're doing is not right.

You have to understand that most of the world is still trying to make sense of how someone could "be" gay. For most of us, it makes no sense at all...


Originally posted by Jalby
I am not gay, but here is a letter that I wrote to my extended family about the subject of gay rights:

Obviously, with two guys, we are not able to naturally have a child. So let?s say we adopt a boy. Only one of us can have guardianship, so let?s say my partner (named John from here on) decides to be the person who adopts a darling 2 year old boy. Then 5 years down the road, after our boy Jimmy is in first grade, John dies in a car accident. Who do you think would have custody of Jimmy??? It sure wouldn?t be me. I would be about 10th in line, after his parents, siblings, aunts and uncles. In order to become recognized as Jimmy?s father (Which I have been for as long as Jimmy remembers) I would have to spend countless legal fees in order to hopefully (assuming John?s family doesn?t object) get legally recognize as my sons dad.

yada, yada, yada
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by rainwoman
I hate to spark an argument here, but the reason why there is discrimination against homosexuals still is because we were NEVER intended to be with someone of the same sex.
Click to expand...
You know all the rules of the universe! Thank god. Mankind's been trying to figure that out since, oh, the beginning of civilization. Maybe you could be so kind as to share your source with us.

Or did you just read that somewhere? In that book that has so many reprints, rewrites, and reinterpretations that hundreds of conflicting factions now exist - all claiming that book as their foundtion? I read a book like that once. It said that we were all reptiles sometime during a previous life. Why should I believe your book - your VERSION of your book, I should say - over my book?
 
Originally posted by womansurg
You know all the rules of the universe! Thank god. Mankind's been trying to figure that out since, oh, the beginning of civilization. Maybe you could be so kind as to share your source with us.

Or did you just read that somewhere? In that book that has so many reprints, rewrites, and reinterpretations that hundreds of conflicting factions now exist - all claiming that book as their foundtion? I read a book like that once. It said that we were all reptiles sometime during a previous life. Why should I believe your book - your VERSION of your book, I should say - over my book?
Click to expand...


Ditto.
 
Womansurg, thank you, you posted exactly my thoughts, but I was trying to restrain myself. Rainwoman, your comments are neither thoughtful, helpful, nor based on evidence. Bringing the thread back to the point, as I alluded to earlier, my sexuality did not define my application. For most gay applicants I think this is the case. However, many of my experiences in college had gay undercurrents because my primary focus of study, research, and volunteerism was infectious disease.

My application discussed HIV/AIDS. In particular one activitiy that I described in both my personal statement and extracurricular activities was needle exchange and outreach with gay and transgendered prostitutes in San Francisco. A few interviewers asked me what the most difficult aspect of that project was. I said, it was seeing myself in those kids. How easy it could have been to go down that path. She mentioned how close we all were to falling over the edge--just one step removed. But I also think she knew what I was talking about.

There are also subtle questions that an interviewer may ask that can put a gay or lesbian candidate into an uncomfortable situation. For example, how do you think you will be able to manage being a doctor with having a family? Not to say that I will never have a family, but let's just say that it will take much more effort to have one than if I were straight. I responded to him saying that in all likelihood I would not be having children unless I really thought it through and made the effort. Again, I think he understood what I meant. Both my interviewers at UCSF (where these stories both come from) were on the younger side and probably more liberal than your avg midwestern or even East Coast doctor would be.

Sure you can lie (well, some can lie... and some... no Mary!), but I came out because I was sick of lying. Applicants need to make that decision for themselves. I think giving your application an extreme gay "focus" could be bad, in that A) it will offend some people and B) it probably would indicate a lack of well-roundedness or diversity of thought. However, that is just my bias.
 
doubly ditto here.......

now, believe me, i am a huge fan of discourse, dialogue, and discussion (woohoo - aliteration!) - but if this is to remain a forum in which we discuss our experiences of being gay and applying to med school - i say we just ignore these silly homophobic posts people keep writing. we could spend all of our energy trying to fight it, or we could focus it on making our experiences more positive by helping each other out.

indiemd
 
I agree. I hope that everyone will ignore negative and inflammatory posts in this thread. These posters will get bored if no one entertains them with a response.

In full support of ALL students at med school,
manic
 
i think that i agree with indiemd, but it is hard to ignore such blatant ignorance - once you are proud of being gay, it feels even worse to let those kind of stupidities go unrefuted. Perhaps we should start a separate thread called "A$$holes Who Just Don't Get It" and let them vent their tired arguments and nonsensical drivel someplace else. That being said, which NYC school do you think has the most supportive environment for LGBT students? Apparently NYU has a large gay student population, but Columbia actually used their gay advocacy group as an example of student organization on its main page, which I found heartening.
 
In my opinion, I think the new york schools are all pretty equal in this area. I work at one and have visited all of them over the last year. Columbia and NYU actually seem to stress diversity less than Cornell and Mt Sinai which really pushed that as a reason to attend in my interview. But that interest in diversity isn't gay specific, and anyway impressions based on interviews seem flawed.

I know NYU undergrad has a large gay population, but i have not heard that about the med school.

The gay thing was a non issue at NYC schools. They have very different students and curricula as well as affiliated hospitals, which all played much bigger roles in determining my interest level.
 
Haven't decided where I'll be yet, but I'm currently leaning toward Stanford.

Told my student interviewer at UChicago, and she said she happened to be next year's LGBT president. So sometimes it works out for the better. :>

Wrote my Stanford secondary about it, thought it would be really awkward in my faculty interview with the white, 60+ PhD researcher doctor, but it went fine. No one really asked about it during my interview.

Asked students about it at Yale, they said they didn't think there were any gay students in their first year class, but that the community was very accepting, etc.

Good luck, all.
 
Originally posted by indiemd
doubly ditto here.......

now, believe me, i am a huge fan of discourse, dialogue, and discussion (woohoo - aliteration!) - but if this is to remain a forum in which we discuss our experiences of being gay and applying to med school - i say we just ignore these silly homophobic posts people keep writing. we could spend all of our energy trying to fight it, or we could focus it on making our experiences more positive by helping each other out.

indiemd
Click to expand...

Triply ditto here 😀

By the way, if you guys feel that others are coming into these threads and posting homophobic/harassing remarks, please don't hesitate to notify me. I don't always read every post of every thread, but I can get into action pretty quickly once called upon.

I hope everybody uses some judgement though when notifying, because often times we Mods can't really block or warn somebody for just posting their opinion. However, if the language gets a bit demeaning or if anybody has reason to believe that a particular member has intentions OTHER than just posting their opinion (read: get a flame war started) please let me know.

Lotsa luv,
Tweetie
 
In response to the comment that people of the same sex were "NEVER meant to be together," I heard on public radio this morning that when the civil rights movement tried to overturn laws banning interracial marriages, a similar argument was made, saying that if God intended for interracial marriages He wouldn't have put the races on different continents.

I think few people would still try to use that argument, or say that interracial marriages are evil. Why expend energy trying to prevent two people who love each other from obtaining the same rights those who choose to marry someone of the opposite sex receive?

I know that most people on this forum are supportive, but I am baffled and hurt by those who aren't. When I fell in love with someone of the same sex I was terrified, yet our love meant too much to me to pretend it wasn't there. It makes perfect sense to me why gays, lesbians and their supporters expend time, energy, and money to fight for *equal* rights, but I just can not understand why others would expend those same resources to keep a group of people from gaining rights that are taken for granted by those who don't have to fight for them.

I'm sorry for the ramble - this issue is on my mind, as yesterday seven same sex couples were heard in the Massachusetts State Court, trying to gain state-recognized marriage, for protection of their children in the event of the death of one parent, legal rights, and the simple joy of marrying the person they love.
 
so did any of you guys apply to/interview at Pitt? I had heard decent things about it being pretty gay friendly. How about any of the schools in Philly? I am trying to figure out where to apply and I really want to stay in Northern California where my family is. But I realize that will be tough to stay in California so I trying to decide where else to apply other than the NYC schools. If any of you have any suggestions of schools you really liked definitely let me know.

gramcracker, one of my good friends is one of 2 openly gay MS-I's at Stanford right now so if you want to talk to him pm me and I can get you his contact info.

Let's keep this thread going 🙂
 
whoa, whoa, whoa....I think you guys totally misunderstood my post. Anatomically speaking, men and men are not meant to be together. Women and women are not meant to be together.

I said that I have many friends that are gay. How is it then that I get labeled as "homophobic"? In response to the post about discrimination against homosexuals, I was simply saying be patient - for those of us who are not gay, we are still trying to make sense of it, and it will be a while before everything is fair for you. That's it. Sorry if you took offense.
 
Originally posted by rainwoman
In response to the post about discrimination against homosexuals, I was simply saying be patient - for those of us who are not gay, we are still trying to make sense of it, and it will be a while before everything is fair for you.
Click to expand...

Great. Exactly how long do you think they should wait?

No seriously, I'm curious. How long would be reasonable for them to go without basic human rights so that you can get cozy in your comfort zone?
 
Rainwoman, what I (and I think others) object to is the use of "meant to be." That begs the question, how do you know? It isn't like gays created gay sex. Like we took some anatomy and unnaturally distorted it for our own purposes. Everything is there, we just use it in a different way. And many of the sexual practices that gays do, straights do as well. I don't think I need to get graphic with this, but there is considerable overlap. And of course, love and intimacy doesn't work in your argument because there is no "anatomical" aspect to love.

Evolution does not have an "intention" as you refer in your first post. It selects for traits that aid the progression and survival of the species. Clearly, there must be some benefit to gays or at least the "gay gene(s)" since it hasn't been selected out for thousands of years. Even if you are highly religious and don't believe in evolution, you must ask yourself, why would God create gay people? Just to test us to see if we will "fall from grace"?

As for good gay places, UCSF and Stanford are up there. I went to Stanford undergrad and found the medical community very open. One of the med school faculty (Neuro lecturer) is transgendered male.
 
Why do people think that if you say you aren't homophobic and you can claim to have gay "friends" then you automatically aren't offensive.

There are shades of homophobia. Just because you aren't a member of the religious right doesn't mean you don't have a lot to learn about gay issues and sensitivity towards gay rights.

Most straight people I know including close friends and family fall somewhere between completely accepting and open and bigoted. Sometimes you have to patiently push people in the right direction...


And getting off my soapbox... I was really impressed with Penn in Phili but I don't know anything about any of the other schools. Other school I had a bad experience at was Georgetown. My interviewer asked me why I would want to put myself through attending Georgetown and to be honest he had a point. j/k to all those who love the school.
 
i think it's kind of funny that conservatives get so pissed off about gay marriage and how it will 'undermine the institution of marriage.' Fox's "Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire" and "Married by America" are pop culture hits. We've also got a high divorce rate, and so many other things that undermine the institution just as well... You'd think marriage advocates would be ready to take anyone on their side that wants to commit to one person for the rest of their lives, no matter if they're of the same or opposite sexes.

Oh, and jtheater, uhm, God didn't create gay people. He created sinful people who have chosen (for any one good reason, I'm still trying to figure out) to be gay. Duh. But if you're very motivated, you can change and become straight, since it's not an inborn trait, like hair color or height. And I've got the family research council documents to prove it. 😛

And to make sure my post is stereotypical, a nice quote from Will and Grace to counter rainwoman's: "Geez, Will, if men and women were meant to be together, She would have given them both penises."
 
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