Magnesium glycinate / glycine

[birchswing]

My psychiatrist recommended I switch from magnesium oxide to magnesium glycinate. I had been taking 400 mg magnesium oxide for general health. The switch was only intended to be a recommendation for general health, not to treat any disease. We were going over the supplements I take and she mentioned liking magnesium glycinate more because of its increase bioavailability. The magnesium glycinate I switched to comes in 133 mg tablets, meant to be taken three times daily. I took one and was surprised at how sedated and relaxed I felt.

I started researching it and found that glycine by itself is used in the treatment of schizophrenia in an official capacity, and more unofficially I see it's used as a sleep aid.

From what I can tell the glycine receptors in the brain and nervous system are similar in nature to GABA-A receptors and when agonized (is that a verb?) have an inhibitory effect. Glycine also seems to have some excitatory effects with glutamate through a process I could not follow. It seemed that it has both excitatory and inhibitory effects, but all of the anecdotal reports I read of people using it either as glycine or magnesium glycinate reported inhibitory effects (relaxation, sedation, muscles calming, etc.).

I am wondering if anyone has knowledge about whether there is unbound glycine in magnesium glycinate preparations or if a salt of glycine itself such as magnesium glycinate can function in the ways that glycine does (obviously exogenous glycine has some effect for it to be used in the treatment of schizophrenia).

It could also be that the increased bio-availability of the magnesium is the effect I felt, or maybe it's that with a combination of the effect of the glycine. It's hard to tease out as the reported effects of glycine and magnesium are somewhat similar. The tablet certainly weighs more than 133 mg (it's quite large), which made me wonder if there's unbound glycine.

From my vantage point, I am not seeking medical advice but rather am interested in the science of this as I find it quite interesting. It never would have occurred to me that taking any specific amino acid exogenously would have any particular effect on a person. I assumed that it would just be treated like protein and used for caloric purposes and that exogenous amino acids don't cross the brain-blood barrier, but I learned I am wrong in that and am curious to learn more. I feel the questions are less medical in nature as well because glycine is present not only in supplements but in various foods, likely in larger quantities if you're eating gummy bears than what's in a magnesium glycinate tablet. Again the question was whether a salt of glycine (magnesium glycinate) would work in similar ways to glycine and if there is a strong likelihood of it being present in a magnesium glycinate preparation? I am trying to tease out of the effect of the magnesium versus the glycine.

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[Ceke2002]

Hmm, interesting. As far as I'm aware the symptoms of hypermagnesemia (an electrolyte disturbance whereby magnesium levels in the blood become abnormally elevated) can include sedation, sleepiness, lowered heart rate, decreased reflexes and muscle weakness - all of which could be confused for a state of decreased anxiety and a feeling of being relaxed. It is also my understanding that hypermagnesemia is can have some rather dire medical consequences, up to and including death, it's not exactly a state you want to be putting yourself into willingly.

edited to add: And unless your diet is severely lacking in certain nutrients, or you have a bonafide medical condition that makes absorption of nutrients more difficult, then you don't need to pile on a heap of supplements for 'general well being' - a good nutritionally balanced diet, and some healthy exercise, will usually take care of the 'well being' part of the equation all by itself. Your Psychiatrist sounds like a bit of a snake oil peddler who's looking to hawk products off to you that she might be getting a cut of herself financially speaking.

 

[birchswing]

I may have overstated how relaxed and sedated I was. Usually when I try something new I become rather anxious. In this case, I felt relaxation followed by anxiety over feeling relaxed, which sounds fairly nutty, but is pretty normal for me when trying something that makes me feel different. I looked up hypermagnesemia and even with my hypochondria, I'm feeling pretty safe I don't have that. My CMP blood tests have never shown any kidney problems, knock on wood. I definitely have thought what you perceive about my psychiatrist in the past. But given that my medications haven't worked well, I'm more open to trying other things. Sometimes she's been rushed and has glossed over things or rather than saying she doesn't know something she makes something up that sounds like gobbley-gook that makes me distrust her, but at my last appointment she had more time (I was the last of the day and I guess she was feeling generous) and I could start to make some of the connections she had been making. I don't go hook line and sinker for everything--for example I''m not going to megadose on l-methylfolate because I have a very slight MTHFR genetic mutation, but I'm looking into regular doses of methylated B vitamins. I agree about healthy living over supplementation, but about four years ago I found I had vitamin D levels that were nearing rickets-levels. I have to take 6,000 IU a day just to get to 30 ng/dl, which is the cut-off for normal levels. I also found out I have almost non-existent testosterone (81--forget what the measure is). I don't know for certain that I have a magnesium deficiency, but I do have borderline blood sugar levels and am going through a gradual benzo taper, and it's supposed to help with both blood sugar and also relaxation. I'm also a vegetarian so I tend to supplement anyhow. And it's not that I haven't taken magnesium before--just a new type, and in a lower dose actually. She's definitely not getting paid for this. Magnesium glycinate is OTC. But I definitely hear what you're saying, and it's based on my previous complaints about my psychiatrist when she was pushing Vayarin and Deplin. In those cases, I do think there was a bit of a con going on--maybe not with her--but definitely with the companies, as the substances in both are available over the counter for far less than their prescription prices.
EDIT: Edited to add--she is someone who changes very quickly. For example, she isn't into Deplin or Vayarin anymore and now likes the OTC versions better of those same ingredients, which made me trust her a bit more. The way she was pushing them before left me a bit distrustful, with the Deplin because my MTHFR results were only very slightly abnormal and I don't have a diagnosis of depression, and with the Vayarin because I could find no research showing that phosphatidylserine in a single molecule with EPA/DHA was more effective than when taken separately--not to mention that the company that sells Vayarin as a prescription product in the US sells it as an OTC supplement in other countries under a different name. In general it seems like "medical foods" (an FDA designation) are not at all held to the same standards as prescription drugs and are pretty much supplements that are legally allowed to make wild claims and, since they're prescriptions, they charge a higher price. I'm starting to think my psychiatrist is less in bed with the pharmaceutical rep of the week but just someone whose stance on things evolves very quickly (as in from month to month).

 

[whopper]

Glycine is one of those things where despite the data (same thing goes for SAM-E, fish oil, n-acetylcysteiene) hardly anyone recommends it. I'm one of the few psychiatrists I know giving out the latter stuff but have yet to have recommended glycine.

 

[birchswing]

Glycine is one of those things where despite the data (same thing goes for SAM-E, fish oil, n-acetylcysteiene) hardly anyone recommends it. I'm one of the few psychiatrists I know giving out the latter stuff but have yet to have recommended glycine.

It looks like the best evidence for its use is in schizophrenia and, very interestingly, in having some neuro-protective properties if taken sublingually in the first six hours after a stroke. I wonder if emergency departments use it for that.

 

[Ceke2002]

My Psychiatrist recommended fish oil early on, he explained the research behind it but that was five years ago now and I've forgotten what he actually said. I have no problem at all with Psychiatrist's recommending supplements and the like if there is some evidence based research to back up any claims that they will help, or even in terms of other more esoteric practices if it's something they know will benefit the patient as an individual, but I tend to get a little twitchy when a Psychiatrist seems to be flip flopping from one in thing to the next - like one minute it's all about supplement XYZ and then 'oh wait, now I'm totally recommending supplement ABC, but don't stock up too much because I might change my mind again at some point'.

 

[clausewitz2]

It looks like the best evidence for its use is in schizophrenia and, very interestingly, in having some neuro-protective properties if taken sublingually in the first six hours after a stroke. I wonder if emergency departments use it for that.

On the question of whether it gets used in EDs after suspected strokes, maybe this happens somewhere, but it is not part of the standard protocols for certification as a comprehensive stroke center, so I rather suspect EDs giving it would be a tiny minority.

 

[whopper]

The medical profession is too geared toward treatment of disease instead of that and disease prevention. I don't know of any physician other than myself that actually spends time on trying to work on a patient's diet, exercise, and lifestyle choices. Even in that regard I feel I am deficient because I don't have much time to discuss these. The profession is more geared toward "here's your pill," instead of trying to really fix the foundations of what could be really ailing the patient.

And on the patient-end, a lot of my patients, once feeling better, don't want to hear their doc proselytizing to them. Most of them, from my experience, simply just want the refill of their prescriptions even when I suggest we do more.

But getting more relevant to this thread, there's a lot of pharmacological substances out there outside of prescribed medications that can help patients. IMHO there's now enough data for reasonable consideration for N-acetylcysteine for mental illness, fish oil for depression augmentation/prevention and schizophrenia prevention.