Major?

[PursuingHappy]

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Hi everyone. I am a senior in high school, graduating in 9 days (finally!). I have done two years at a state college in the dual enrollment program, however, I did not know about med school pre-reqs and all that so unfortunately, I have none 🙁 I do volunteer as a tutor at the state school (100+ hours). I really love chemistry and philosophy and plan on taking courses in both. However, if i major in philosophy with a biochem minor, it would only take three years. I will be in the honors program, so I have to take 4 extra courses and do a senior research paper. If I double majored in chem and philosophy, it would take 4 years. I'm leaning on the second option because I would have more research experience and after graduation I could probably get a job in a lab for a year because I do want to take a gap year before going to med school. The second option would give me time to figure out if I really want to do research for the rest of my life. I also want to do my senor thesis in Chemistry, not philosophy. However, the second option puts me in more debt.

I am sorry for this long post, but hopefully you all can give me some sound advice. I am transferring to a private school, HBCU, don't now rankings and all that but it is ranked number 1 for HBCU's. All of the students who apply to medical school from the school do get accepted according to AAMC data. I have a 3.85 GPA right now. I wasn't able to get money for some of my science and math class textbooks, so I got B's in those classes.

 

[debateg]

1) You need to schedule all the medical school pre-reqs in. I would make a short list of medical schools you would be interested in and just look up their pre-reqs. They actually vary a bit. When I applied, some schools required biochemistry, and some required more English classes.

2) You need to get involved in research early, e.g. try to set something now if you can. If there is a point person who assists in such things, find that person early. Get in a lab now, and if you like it, anticipate to stay on during the summers and for that gap year. Ideally, try to secure a position that is paid (preferred) or for credit. Apply for fellowships to support your salary.

Try to schedule lab time in with your classes, e.g. save two afternoons a week for lab time. It will be hard to balance your classes and lab, but it's a skill that will become important later on in your life as you balance other things.

3) Textbooks in college are a huge scam. In many cases, it's not like high school where you need the textbook. Many classes require them but never use them. Ask a more senior student about whether the textbook is necessary. Remember, you can always choose to purchase the textbook later if you feel it would be helpful, but returning a textbook is often not possible after a week or so. Buy used if you can. Split the cost with your friends and share.

4) An extra year of college debt is a lot of money. As sad as it may sound, your senior thesis is not worthwhile. It's not peer reviewed or published, so as far as most people tell, it does not exist. The same holds for a double major. If you can graduate quickly and get lab experience full-time for a year, hopefully while being paid, possibly get a paper out, you will not be lacking in research experience. It will also give you some experience with living outside the school bubble, and as a bonus, you can still live the college life because most of your friends will still be around in the evenings.

5) Read this thread http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=900721 . It will tell you a lot of truths about the MD/PhD that others will not because they are somewhat distasteful.

 

[PursuingHappy]

Can I get a lab position with just the philosophy major and minor in biochem? And thanks for the link. I definitely do not want to take the decision lightly.

 

[debateg]

If you get set up with the right people, you can get a lab position by showing interest in science. Your major and minor will probably not be an important factor in that.

 

[gutonc]

Hi everyone. I am a senior in high school, graduating in 9 days (finally!).

Not to dissuade you from your stated goal, but this statement right here tells me that MD/PhD is likely not right for you. You're looking at another 15-20 years of education and training before you get a job if you go that route (maybe12-14 if you get credit for the CC stuff you've already done). So you're essentially looking at doing the same amount of school you've already done plus another 3-7 years of residency/fellowship training. And then you can get a job.

To put it in concrete terms, I graduated from 25th grade and then did another 6 years of training before getting an attending job (we'll ignore the 3 other years I spent doing research between UG and med school). If you think your primary and secondary education has been a slog so far, just wait.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

Not to dissuade you from your stated goal, but this statement right here tells me that MD/PhD is likely not right for you. You're looking at another 15-20 years of education and training before you get a job if you go that route (maybe12-14 if you get credit for the CC stuff you've already done). So you're essentially looking at doing the same amount of school you've already done plus another 3-7 years of residency/fellowship training. And then you can get a job.

To put it in concrete terms, I graduated from 25th grade and then did another 6 years of training before getting an attending job (we'll ignore the 3 other years I spent doing research between UG and med school). If you think your primary and secondary education has been a slog so far, just wait.

I don't think OP's excitedness to be out of high school suggests he's not fit for MD/PhD training. I mean, was anyone on this board not happy to be done with the K-12 system?

 

[gutonc]

I don't think OP's excitedness to be out of high school suggests he's not fit for MD/PhD training. I mean, was anyone on this board not happy to be done with the K-12 system?

In retrospect? No. Easiest 12 years of my life, by far.

But I don't think most people thinking about pursuing this track realize what they're up against at the get-go...I certainly didn't. Just trying to keep it real. I was 40 when I got my first job. If you had told 18 year old me that I'd be 30 before I got a job I would have laughed at you for being ridiculous. 40 wasn't even on my radar. I don't regret the path I took, but I actively discourage others from following it.

 

[PursuingHappy]

I am totally not 100% sure about pursuing this track. I honestly keep switching back and forth between MD only and MD/PhD. Part of me says get the MD and you will have a job earlier. Another part says I won't have a job as early, but I won't have as much debt and I will be able to pursue active research and teach. But, then I think about children. I used to say that I did not want kids, but then my mom had two more kids. I don't want to sacrifice having a child just because I am caught up in my work. It might be easier if I was a guy, but I am a girl. I see the reports about women not making it all the way in this track. I want to be those people who actually sees it all the way through, but I do want to be realistic now while I have the chance. I see the amount of time it takes. Sometimes I think about getting my PhD at a later age, when I'm ready to just focus on research alone, without the pressure of finishing med school. Is their like some sort of unspoken rule about the cut-off for starting a PhD?

 

[debateg]

There is no cutoff for doing a PhD, but in reality, there is no reason to do a PhD late in your career as a doctor. Here is one path you could take that is MD only, which was the default path prior to MD/PhD.

Pursue MD only. Do a year of funded research as a master's degree some time during your MD (often it happens between 2nd and 3rd or 3rd and 4th year). Go to residency and fellowship. Get into research seriously during fellowship; sometimes you have a bit of time to do research during residency depending on the specialty.

Advantages:
Career path is faster to a real job
You get into research as a fellow, which is a position much higher up on the hierarchy than graduate student, and it's paid much, much better (still not great)
You don't have to mess with a thesis committee demanding this or that and holding up your graduation. You have a set amount of time for funding, and so there is an known endpoint for you to leave with no one questioning. This is very, very nice.

Disadvantages
Med school debt. However, as a minority woman, you may be able to get substantial scholarships to medical school. I know a few people at my school that got a free ride.
Going into fellowship, you have less research experience than if you did a PhD. As a fellow, you typically have ~2 years of funded research time paid for by the fellowship, afterwards you're on your own for funding. So those 2 years must be quite productive in order to get a grant, which may be more difficult without more experience. If you go into a supportive department, they may find funding to help bridge you. There certainly is a push to recruit quality minority applicants and support them, but there still are institutional barriers that prevent them--and just women in general--from succeeding in science.

 

[PursuingHappy]

Thanks for the advice debateg. I will weigh the options. I still have a long way to go before applying.

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

I am transferring to a private school, HBCU, don't now rankings and all that but it is ranked number 1 for HBCU's.

yeahokay

 

[PursuingHappy]

yeahokay

Don't know the national ranking, as in regional and all that extra stuff.