Mammalian Respiration!

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Jackdaw

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Hi Everyone, I'm new here... the site was recommended to me and I must say the community looks great.
I was wondering if anyone has any data on or knows of any sources from which I could get the values for the following; human, equine and either cat or dog respiratory rates, things such as;

Tidal volume (Vt)
Inspiration reserve volume (IRV)
Expiration reserve volume (ERV)
Residual volume (RV)
Respiratory frequency (Rf)
Expiration volume (VE)
Vital capacity (VC)
Forced expiration volume (FEV)
Forced vital capacity (FVC)

For each species I ideally need them at rest and for the diseased.
(any 1 disease per species, such as equine COPD)

I av been looking everywhere and na-da, so thought I'd open it up to you guy's!

Anyone?

Thanks in advance... Jack😀
 
I really don't understand what any of those values mean, but I went to www.ncbi.nih.gov, typed in "canine Respiration Lung capacity". Got several articles, some of which were free from PubCentral.

Google Scholar works just as well, if not better.

Seems like everyone who measures these values does so in a diseased state, so they obviously have to measure and cite the normal values in an un-diseased state.

Dunno, maybe some of the animal science people here can spout these numbers off, but your probably better off just pulling up 5-6 journal articles.

Journal of Applied Physiology has some decent ones.

(If I get accepted, am I going to have to learn this stuff?)
 
No Imagination said:
(If I get accepted, am I going to have to learn this stuff?)
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Yes!! But pulmonary physiology is sooooo much fun! 😍

I second ri23 on the other thread: this site isn't for homework help. You can do your own research, I am sure!

Try pulling up some stuff by David C. Poole, esp. in horses.
 
No Imagination... Thank you, you are a 'gentleman/lady' and a scholar!

Alliecat... read my reply on the other thread. Additionally, I'm from the U.K and here such things as raw data and stats can freely discussed. Therefore, I am sorry if I have committed some kind of faux-pas in your eyes!
Finally and I'm not trying to be obtuse but what the hell else due talk about on such a forum?
 
Jackdaw said:
Finally and I'm not trying to be obtuse but what the hell else due talk about on such a forum?
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Take a look around and see--you said that the community "looks great."

For something like you suggest, I'm assuming you need to cite literature sources for whatever you come up with. Not just "so and so online said that the residual volume of a dog is xml/kg"

In that case, you do have to pull some journal articles and/or book chapters. 🙂 In other words, not have someone else do your research for you. (Though No Imagination was very nice to do so!)

Like I said, go to PubMed and look up stuff written by David C. Poole--he's done a ton of work in horses and cites a lot of human literature (his field of study is exercise physiology, and he uses the horse as his model).

you're welcome. 🙂
 
Jackdaw said:
No Imagination... Thank you, you are a 'gentleman/lady' and a scholar!
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Im quoting that for prosperity. Stick around the forums, and you will edit that out im sure 🙂

Yeah, you can talk about vet stuff, pre-vet stuff in this forum, but really - its not a QnA - more designed for opinions and perspectives - Not HW.

That said, simply phrasing your question as "Anyone know where can i get all the different types of respiratory rates for several species of animals?" will probably sound less like "Do my HW for me please!" I think thats all the others were saying.

God im bored
 
Alliecat - O.K... Granted, I have made 3 errors just recently... the 3rd was assuming folks here were approachable as we are in the UK. The 1st & 2nd were believing my american collegues recommendation and then jumping to a conclusion about the site after skip reading through a few posts!
I of course thank you for your advice but my 'homework' as you call it is not to state the values of A,B,C in species Z,Y,X! It's a little more attenuated than that! Obtaining such values are only the start of my thesis. My initial aim is to find the values from a range of distinct sources in order to determine their concenus or variability.
And what would be the point of not doing my own research when I have to present a viva on it at the end?
Asking someone have they seen something is hardly 'do my homework' but having said that it is my fault, I shouldn't have assumed anything! Rest assured it will not happen again!

No Imagination - Cheers Mate! Your 'perspective' on how I my obtain the stats was greatly appreciated. Also, thanks for the 'head's up' on how things are here! Although, if I come across anyone needing advice obtaining such data I will still do what ever I can to help.
Anyway, open your prosperity box theres another 'prop' for you! :laugh:

Jack
 
No need for the sarcasm. You ask for sources, we give you sources. while some responses were grouchy because it DID ask like you were looking for answers without doing work....we obliged. No need to make thinly veiled comments about how things "are" here and imply we didn't help. we gave you tons of resource ideas.

I would understand if this was a question that had very few resources, but you can pick up ANY veterinary physiology book or species-specific physiology book and find many of these values.


I of course thank you for your advice but my 'homework' as you call it is not to state the values of A,B,C in species Z,Y,X! It's a little more attenuated than that

You do realize attenuated means shortened or brief, right? "Stating ABC in XYZ" is about as attenuated as you can get.....don't you mean its a bit more involved or complicated since this info is part of your thesis and not just homework? I'm a tad lost. This is a thesis project, then?

And what would be the point of not doing my own research when I have to present a viva on it at the end?

That's what I am wondering....

Like No Imagination said, it really comes off as not wanting to do your own work.

I find it hard to believe that you have looked at various veterinary medicine texts and have found NO answers to your question
 
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I would recommend using various database searchs to find papers on this stuff. Pubmed, or CAB Abstracts would be a good place to start. For dog, cat and horse info I would look for papers by Andrew Hoffman he runs the lung funtion testing lab at Tufts. Good luck.
 
WhtsThFrequency - Lol!!! Dropped a clanger there! It was supposed to read;

I of course thank you for your advice but my 'homework' as you call it is not to state the values of A,B,C in species Z,Y,X! It's a little more complicated and not as attenuated as that!

I take what your saying but I am currently doing my extra mural studies (EMS) and am in quite a remote place.

But as I said earlier, I was simply asking if some one already knew and not for someone to find out (research it) for me!

Jesus, I'd hate to ask you for a second opinion or dain to enquire about your current work in a conference in the future.

To those who gave advice thank you!

I sorry for offending the other peoples sensibiities and you'll be glad to here I won't bother you again....sheeeesh!
 
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I think the reaction was due to the amount of info you are looking for. From my glance, it looked like 8 different cases (4 animals, at rest and diseased) x 9 data points. 72 numbers in total.

I don't think you would have had the reaction if you had just asked if anyone could point you to sources for respiration data of both healthy and diseased animals. It was just so much detail makes it seem like you haven't typed it into a search engine yet. And since you have online access to this forum, one would assume you have access to a search engine as well.

It is actually a pretty friendly group. I have seen this group answer specific questions about homework problems, but generally framed as 'I get XYZ about this, but I must be missing something, does anyone see what.'

Being sarcastic and defensive doesn't help.

Good luck finding the info you need. Hopefully you enjoy the board more as your read through the posts and get a feel for it.
 
Jesus, I'd hate to ask you for a second opinion or dain to enquire about your current work in a conference in the future.

= Fail. You weren't asking for a second opinion, or anything about a case you had seen and wanted inout about, you were asking for a bunch of data that can be looked up. Seriously, pulling this type of snide little remark doesn't make people more likely to help you.

You have to admit that your question could come off as some high school kid asking for homework help. And we get a lot of that around here, so yeah we get defensive because we have better things to do.

Ok, so you're not just asking for numbers of homework, ok, there was a tizzy, but you got the guidance and sources you needed. Try to see if from out prespective...it sounds like someone coming on and saying "Hey, can someone list all 70 or so bones that make up the xxx part of the human body/dog body/etc"

It can't be THAT remote if you have internet access. I'm willing to bet there are paper resources around (ie libraries) if online journals, etc can't give you what you need.

No need to act wounded.
 
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Well... I'm truely sorry to have upset you all. I wasn't asking if someone could RESEARCH THEM ALL! Just that, that was what I had been looking for and if anyone knew any of them!
Haven't you ever turned to someone and said 'Hey do you now this or that?' thats the beginning of a discussion as far as I'm aware!
Yes this remote place does have the internet... via satellite... as I am on a sheep farm in the mountains in europe. (no phone line, no stores, no village) Huge mistake coming here though.
I have areas of interest and would have gladly helped and participated within the community where ever possible.
I'll stick to UK and Euro sites where I've never had a problem when helping eachother.
If my question was vague I apologise but would you'd be defensive after a welcome like that!
Don't get me wrong, I'm quite sad that this as been my experience of the US vet med community.

I won't bother you all again. Bye.

My thanks to those who were constructive and those who explained the reasons for the reaction.
 
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Haven't you ever turned to someone and said 'Hey do you now this or that?'

Sure. I don't ask them for 70 or so numbers that obviously have to be looked up....and then get mad when people tell me that they don't know them off the top of their head and to go look them up on my own.
 
Hey, guys, did you realize that apparently we speak for the entire American veterinary community?

Wow, I feel powerful.

Honestly, Jack, what I said was in good humor. No need to get so defensive. If you're truly British and we're all allowed to make sweeping generalizations about each other's culture, then I'm surprised you aren't more laid-back than taking what I said as an absolute horrendous indictment on your moral character. The people I was around when I lived in England for six months had a much better sense of humor (again, since we're making sweeping generalizations...).

Whtsthefrequency put it more eloquently than I about the homework-answer seeking. It happens all the time. But asking us "what the hell do you talk about here?" comes across as very antagonistic and condescending--not to mention your attacks on Americans as a whole (and by the way, there are plenty of non-Americans on this forum).

Cheers, m8! Lively discussion. At least it's entertaining. Good luck with the research. Pulmonary phys really IS fun.
 
WhtsThFrequency said:
Evidently a sheep farmer in the middle of nowhere, no civilization anywhere, who is writing a PhD thesis with the internet as his only resource....*blink blink*
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LoL, i've pretty much written mine and I have never stepped foot in my university library (although i do go through their servers to gain access to journals obviously)
 
LOL at this entire thread... now I know why I waited so long to read it 😀

Oh, and here's a list of answers Jack.... Cheers from the American Veterinary Community!

Tidal volume (Vt)= 9mmHg/cc
Inspiration reserve volume (IRV)= 1900 mg/kg/day
Expiration reserve volume (ERV)= -1900 mg/ml
Residual volume (RV)= 8
Respiratory frequency (Rf)= 867-5309
Expiration volume (VE) = 2/3pi
Vital capacity (VC)= not important...
Forced expiration volume (FEV)= 7
Forced vital capacity (FVC)= 1492.

It just happens to be the same for all species... pretty convenient! HTH!!

👎
 
WhtsThFrequency said:
Evidently a sheep farmer in the middle of nowhere, no civilization anywhere, who is writing a PhD thesis with the internet as his only resource....*blink blink*
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That's a bit insulting. Jack already clearly stated that he is doing EMS (extramural studies) at a sheep farm AND that he is working on a thesis! Not that he is a sheep farmer. All vet students in the UK are required to work 12 weeks in various farms.

Props 2 Jack 4 working on this during EMS. It's not easy to study and do school work when you are working with silly farm animals all day, especially if you are in Tinbucktoo. Also, the school's don't really go out of their ways to teach you how to research. I know I would be floudering in my research papers if I hadn't done loads back in my undergrad.


p.s. forgive my spelling, my keyboard decided to stop working properly last night. I never know what I'm going to get when I hit a key!
 
annaig said:
Also, the school's don't really go out of their ways to teach you how to research.
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Nobody can teach anyone "how to research." One of the things you should take away from any advanced degree in the sciences is an appreciation for science itself, and for the process of finding what's out there, improving on it or adding to it and integrating everything into the bigger picture. That's not something anyone can teach you - that's something that becomes intuitive when you really start to understand things!
 
nyanko said:
Nobody can teach anyone "how to research." One of the things you should take away from any advanced degree in the sciences is an appreciation for science itself, and for the process of finding what's out there ...
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Well yes, of course. But most (not) all UK students go to vet school straight out of high school, and they really need help with research and writing papers. At Dick Vet, the GEPs and the 2nd years just finished working on a group essay on homeopathy. Not going to bore you with the details (and typing with my onscreen keyboard is excrutiating), but the GEPs that had 2nd years without previous degrees were horrified by the lack of writing and research skills the 2nd years had. None of the GEPs were happy with the situation, but supposidly these projects, and tutorials based on reading scientific papers, is supposed to teach them how these things are done (we students have our doubts). I know I struggled a lot when I first started to do college level research. Heck, I still struggle after five years of doing it!
 
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