Masseter spasm after succinylcholine

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frotteurism

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Has anybody seen masseter spasm after succinylcholine? I've read about it occasionally being a possible early sign of MH, but I'm told that, MH aside, it can sometimes be impossible to pry the jaw open to intubate.

Are there any drugs that can break succinylcholine-induced masseter spasm, or do you need to proceed to a surgical airway if you can't ventilate by mask?
 
frotteurism said:
Has anybody seen masseter spasm after succinylcholine? I've read about it occasionally being a possible early sign of MH, but I'm told that, MH aside, it can sometimes be impossible to pry the jaw open to intubate.

Are there any drugs that can break succinylcholine-induced masseter spasm, or do you need to proceed to a surgical airway if you can't ventilate by mask?


It is not always a sign of MH.

The nondepolarizers will break it though.
 
Noyac said:
It is not always a sign of MH.

The nondepolarizers will break it though.

I'm pretty sure that is not correct. I had a lady who had it after she woke up...case was masked.

I'm pretty sure on local anesthetic infiltration or time will relax it.
 
Noyac said:
It is not always a sign of MH.


From what I understand, the degree of jaw tightness progressively points to MH, although I believe you are correct, simply the incidence of jaw tightness is not completely diagnostic of MH. In the face of MH, a tight jaw will become rigid, then completely rigid. The further you go in the spectrum of jaw tightness -> rigid -> hard as concrete the more the fingers start pointing towards true MH.



Noyac said:
The nondepolarizers will break it though.

Unlike some of my on-line brethern, I am not one to argue with attendings, but I would like for you to clarify this one. I had to treat an MH crisis up in the Trauma ICU the other day and this is still fresh on my mind. MH is an acute loss of control of intracellular calcium ions as a result of exposure to triggering agents, resulting in a release of free, unbound, ionized Ca from normal storage sites. Actions taken by the body in an attempt to maintain CA homeostasis include Ca pumps that require ATP, thus furthering exothermic response. Muscle rigidity happens when unbound Ca approaches contractile threshold. The disease process does not take place at the NMJ, so how would an nondepolarizer treat MH?

We all know the treatment is dantrolene, not because it has NMJ properties, but because is reduces Ca release from the sarcoplasmic retic without changing Ca uptake, a double hit that results in a decreased amount of calcium chilling intracellular and causing havoc. Restoration of intracellular Ca is the goal, not NMJ alteration.
 
rn29306 said:
From what I understand, the degree of jaw tightness progressively points to MH, although I believe you are correct, simply the incidence of jaw tightness is not completely diagnostic of MH. In the face of MH, a tight jaw will become rigid, then completely rigid. The further you go in the spectrum of jaw tightness -> rigid -> hard as concrete the more the fingers start pointing towards true MH.





Unlike some of my on-line brethern, I am not one to argue with attendings, but I would like for you to clarify this one. I had to treat an MH crisis up in the Trauma ICU the other day and this is still fresh on my mind. MH is an acute loss of control of intracellular calcium ions as a result of exposure to triggering agents, resulting in a release of free, unbound, ionized Ca from normal storage sites. Actions taken by the body in an attempt to maintain CA homeostasis include Ca pumps that require ATP, thus furthering exothermic response. Muscle rigidity happens when unbound Ca approaches contractile threshold. The disease process does not take place at the NMJ, so how would an nondepolarizer treat MH?

We all know the treatment is dantrolene, not because it has NMJ properties, but because is reduces Ca release from the sarcoplasmic retic without changing Ca uptake, a double hit that results in a decreased amount of calcium chilling intracellular and causing havoc. Restoration of intracellular Ca is the goal, not NMJ alteration.

Noy didnt say nondepolarizers would break MH, rn29306.

He said it would break masseter spasm.
 
jetproppilot said:
Noy didnt say nondepolarizers would break MH, rn29306.

He said it would break masseter spasm.

Educate me JPP.

Assume full-blown MH and subsequent masseter spasm. If the trismus-masseter spasm is due to the contracture of slow tonic fibers of the masseter muscle and MH is not a NMJ problem, then how will non-depolarizers break it? Irregardless, does the problem not lie with intracellular calcium? How will blocking motor end-plate sites with nondepolarizers correct the inherent calcium based-masseter spasm?
 
rn29306 said:
Educate me JPP.

Assume full-blown MH and subsequent masseter spasm. If the trismus-masseter spasm is due to the contracture of slow tonic fibers of the masseter muscle and MH is not a NMJ problem, then how will non-depolarizers break it? Irregardless, does the problem not lie with intracellular calcium? How will blocking motor end-plate sites with nondepolarizers correct the inherent calcium based-masseter spasm?

Can't educate you dude, since all your physiology is already correct.

Just posting that I think you misunderstood Noys post....and hopefully he'll chime in soon.

I think what he was saying was that all masseter spasms are not MH...

and if you encounter a non-MH-masseter-spasm that nondepolarizers may break the spasm.
 
jetproppilot said:
Can't educate you dude, since all your physiology is already correct.

Just posting that I think you misunderstood Noys post....and hopefully he'll chime in soon.

I think what he was saying was that all masseter spasms are not MH...

and if you encounter a non-MH-masseter-spasm that nondepolarizers may break the spasm.


I understood him to mean that MH induced masseter spasm could be broken by non-depolarizers.

Gotcha. 👍
 
jetproppilot said:
Can't educate you dude, since all your physiology is already correct.

Just posting that I think you misunderstood Noys post....and hopefully he'll chime in soon.

I think what he was saying was that all masseter spasms are not MH...

and if you encounter a non-MH-masseter-spasm that nondepolarizers may break the spasm.


Precisely.

I was not talking about masseter spasm related to MH. I should have be more clear.
 
militarymd said:
I'm pretty sure that is not correct. I had a lady who had it after she woke up...case was masked.

I'm pretty sure on local anesthetic infiltration or time will relax it.


Are you talking about the MH type or the non-MH type?

I have seen probably 2 cases (granted, not a large #) of masseter spasm with presumably sux and both resolved with nondepolarizers. I have never seen a case of MH.

I have also seen a few cases of masseter spasm with a fractured jaw which was relieved with nondep.
 
Noyac said:
Are you talking about the MH type or the non-MH type?

I have seen probably 2 cases (granted, not a large #) of masseter spasm with presumably sux and both resolved with nondepolarizers. I have never seen a case of MH.

I have also seen a few cases of masseter spasm with a fractured jaw which was relieved with nondep.

I didn't know there was a difference....just a spectrum of succinycholine related masseter spasm....a non nmj related muscle contraction.

The cases that I have seen and reviewed all resolved with time and not nondepolarizers.
 
militarymd said:
I didn't know there was a difference....just a spectrum of succinycholine related masseter spasm....a non nmj related muscle contraction.

The cases that I have seen and reviewed all resolved with time and not nondepolarizers.


True, if you can mask them, as is usually the case, then you don't need a nm blocker. It will resolve with time.
 
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