Match / NRMP Violation

[mymembernames]

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[Raryn]

No. Many MSPEs don't report any grades after August of the 4th year. There's no violation one way or the other.

If a program asks you during an interview how your rotations are going though, you're going to have to be honest - lying would be a match violation.

In addition, if your failing grade pushes your graduation date back, you may be pulled from the match anyway.

 

[mymembernames]

No. Many MSPEs don't report any grades after August of the 4th year. There's no violation one way or the other.

If a program asks you during an interview how your rotations are going though, you're going to have to be honest - lying would be a match violation.

In addition, if your failing grade pushes your graduation date back, you may be pulled from the match anyway.

Thank you for the response. I hope that you are correct. Can others agree or disagree on this response based on policy? Because my school student affairs dean said he has to report it or else it would be a match violation.

 

[physicsnerd42]

I have no idea about whether it’s a match violation but your school can include whatever it wants in the MSPE. If you’ve already failed the rotation and the MSPE doesn’t come out until October then why wouldn’t they include it? How did you manage to fail an elective?


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[GoSpursGo]

Yeah I don't think it would be a match violation, and several schools will stop reporting grades in August as suggested above, but if your school's policy is to report all the way up until October then it seems you're SOL.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

My initial answer was the same: no.

Interestingly, it appears we are (somewhat) incorrect. From the match agreement between NRMP and schools:

6.7 Completeness, Timeliness, and Accuracy of Information

All information that a medical school reports about its students and graduates during the application, interview, and/or matching processes, shall be complete, timely, and accurate. Information reported in the Medical School Performance Evaluation (MSPE) that is false, misleading, incomplete, or not up-to-date is a violation of this Agreement. For example, the omission of information that would reasonably be considered pertinent to a program’s decision to rank an applicant, to determine an applicant’s ability to satisfy program requirements or standards, or to identify circumstances that may reasonably be expected affect adversely the applicant’s licensure status, visa status, or ability to start the training program shall be considered a violation of this Agreement. Prior to graduation, a medical school shall attach an addendum to a MSPE that becomes outdated as a consequence of superseding events.

So most schools won't update an MSPE, since whether you get a Pass or an Honors on a 4th year rotation really doesn't change things. But, failing a course definitely would be an "omission of information that would reasonably be considered pertinent to a program’s decision to rank an applicant". Hence, I think your school must report this.

There's obviously a bunch of wiggle room here for schools to determine what would be "reasonably considered", hence the "somewhat" caveat. But a fail seems clear.

 

[Ironheme]

Some programs send out invites without waiting for the dean's letter so you might get lucky that way. However, I imagine they'll update your file when the dean's letter comes in. Not sure why the system is designed that those letters are released Oct 1st.

 

[Raryn]

Some programs send out invites without waiting for the dean's letter so you might get lucky that way. However, I imagine they'll update your file when the dean's letter comes in. Not sure why the system is designed that those letters are released Oct 1st.

It used to be a lot worse. From what I recall, before 2011 or so, applications were sent out Sept 1 and the dean's letter didn't come out until Nov 1.

 

[rokshana]

It used to be a lot worse. From what I recall, before 2011 or so, applications were sent out Sept 1 and the dean's letter didn't come out until Nov 1.

Yep...the MSPE was sent by oct 1st but wasn’t released to programs until nov 1
Though I would presume it was to allow a school to be able to include a student’s information for all 3 years and if they are AOA...while junior AOA info would be available earlier, schools may have not named senior AOA yet.

 

[atomi]

How do you fail a 4th year elective? Did you just not show up?