Match vs. Post Match

[rocknhardplace]

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Hi all:

I am wondering if any of you can give me some insight into the probability of getting a residency during the regular match vs. post match. I graduated with only a 3.2 GPA. However, I was very active during school and have lots to show. I did not join a club just because. I actually started numerous projects and finish most of them with great success. My other liability: I graduated about four years ago and did not practice pharmacy and this was due to personal choice and structural factors.

I am now volunteering at a hospital to learn and regain some of the skills I lost. I hope this will strengthen my application a bit for next year.

This past cycle, I did not apply during the regular match thinking that I did not have much of a chance. I thought that the post match might be easier for me to get a spot. However, speaking to other pharmacists, I've learned that it is harder to get a post match. They explain that they tend to have someone in mind for the remaining spots. And found this to be true at places I call. They told me flat out they had accepted students who did rotation with them etc.

What say you? Regular cycle vs. post-match. I am particular interested to hear those whose situations similar to mine. Any info is much appreciated.

 

[Dalteparin]

It is infinitely more difficult to get a residency post-Match. As you've discovered, the few residencies with spots open post-Match often have someone in mind for the spot already. Those who don't are going to prefer somebody who signed up for the Match, sent out a bunch of applications, went to interviews and didn't Match but still wants to do a residency over someone who just waltzes in after the Match because they thought it would be easier. Giving a residency spot to somebody who didn't even try to get one before the Match is (in my opinion) cheating the people who went through the long, difficult Match process.

Additionally, the number of applicants for residencies keeps increasing and the number of sites has remained relatively stagnant. In a few years there may not even BE spots available after the Match.

As far as what your chances are, don't despair. You mentioned that you're volunteering at a hospital and that's good. Are you licensed as a pharmacist anywhere? Are you working? What have you been doing since you finished pharmacy school? These are all questions programs will ask you.

 

[ucrx]

Definitely harder post-match, mainly because there are so few slots for so many people.

Are you licensed as a pharmacist anywhere? Are you working? What have you been doing since you finished pharmacy school? These are all questions programs will ask you.

This is very important. I interviewed a candidate who didn't match right out of school. When she was asked what she had been doing since graduation, she said that she was sitting on her parents' couch. Bad answer.

 

[spacecowgirl]

This is very important. I interviewed a candidate who didn't match right out of school. When she was asked what she had been doing since graduation, she said that she was sitting on her parents' couch. Bad answer.

Oh man.

I concur - post-match is nearly impossible. I think there were about 1100 people for 150 open spots after the match.

 

[rocknhardplace]

Hi All:

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I did go through the regular match once. However, I only applied to one program. And that did not work out. I feel I have made many mistakes. I do hope that things will get better from me this point onward.

As for my current situation. I am fully licensed and in good standing. I volunteer at the hospital four days a week (6 hours+/day). The maximum allowed is 6 hours/day. I do learn a lots at the hospital. However, it is not the same as a residency and there is no paper/certificate to show. I do want to work and be productive etc.

As for the time I was off, I could not work because the BOP incorrectly sent the license to another address. It took 10 months to the mess get sorted out. At the same time, the intern license expired and they don't renew the license. I then worked at anticoag clinic full time (4 months). I was there only as a full time per diem for a maternity leave position. When the person came back, my assignment ended. As for the rest of the time, I try to gain real life experience by traveling.

I am very pessimistic because of my past experience/luck and the increasingly competitive nature of residency. There are so many people in my class and people I know whose academic achievements, personality, extracurricular experience are much less than mine. However, they was able to gain a residency spot. I just feel very unlucky. I am very anxious to start a residency. It seems like I have to wait another year.

 

[spacecowgirl]

Hmmm. I really think you need a minimum of a year of more paid work experience. IMO, I would be very skeptical as a residency selection committee member as to why it took 10 months to sort out the license situation. I can't really wrap my mind around why something that important would take almost a year to fix. That would be a red flag to me. Residencies want people that get things done.

Find a pharmacy job, wherever you can, even if it's community pharmacy. That is another HUGE red flag to me. Being licensed for 4 years with only 4 months of paid work experience...it doesn't look good. Traveling for experience is something you do as an undergrad during break, not as a professional school graduate. You should have been figuring things out with your career at that time.

Just being honest, sorry if it's not what you want to hear. I think it's going to be a really tough road for you to go the residency route. There are too many people with stellar qualifications. At this point in your career, I think you'd be better served getting a couple of years of good, solid work experience behind you. Then reassess if you really want to go the residency route. You may be a perfectly intelligent person, but what you're describing here (which is all I have to go on) does not sound like a person who is motivated or sees things through. I would also avoid referring to this as bad luck. There may have been moments of bad luck, but I would be skeptical hearing that 4 years of unemployment is due to bad luck. My $0.02.

Best wishes.

 

[Dalteparin]

You may be a perfectly intelligent person, but what you're describing here (which is all I have to go on) does not sound like a person who is motivated or sees things through. I would also avoid referring to this as bad luck. There may have been moments of bad luck, but I would be skeptical hearing that 4 years of unemployment is due to bad luck. My $0.02.

Best wishes.

This. I know how hard it is to find a job in this economy and I've had periods of unemployment myself, but 4 years is a bit excessive. The people you're competing with for residency spots will have spent their free time trying to improve their skills by doing extra projects or research. I'm sorry to say that when you tell a potential residency site that you've been traveling and volunteering for the last 4 years, you're going to look like a slacker next to them.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to pick on you or hurt your feelings; just giving you honest feedback.

 

[rocknhardplace]

I am not looking for sympathy of sort. I am trying to paint a complete picture as much as possible. If people already pass the judgement that I am a slacker than there is not much to do about it. I was hoping to hear if any of you went through similar situation and are now a successful inpatient clinical pharmacist. If I want to hear criticism, I know where to go.

I don't think a slacker would apply for a grant with APhaA, received it, finished it, and serve a community he cares about. A slacker is someone who passively go through school and not care about pharmacy as a career/profession. A slacker does not spend time fighting for pharmacists' rights.

A slacker does not volunteer 6 hours+ (the maximum allow) per day doing DUR, helping to establish protocols when he can work in retail for pay. I know my career path and trajectory. I rather face the challenge now later. How many times do you hear people saying that it difficult to go from community to inpatient. I want to avoid this situation later on.

The director where I volunteer knows me when I was a student and knows my work ethics. This is the reason why he accepts me to be a volunteer. He has been fighting hard to get a residency spot at his hospital. But the budget isn't there.

For those who are in California. If you ever have any problems dealing with the the BOP, I would like to hear that you can get through with them very quickly and resolve things quickly.

 

[rocknhardplace]

Correction about the time off. It is only 2.5 years since I got my license. It is still pretty damaging, however. 🙁

 

[spacecowgirl]

I'm not giving sympathy and like I said, all I could go on is what you had posted so far 😕 If that makes you mad, you are looking for advice in the wrong place, friend.

Questions:
1) Why are you volunteering instead of working?
2) If the DOP where you are working likes you, why not get a staff position there and apply for residency in a couple years?


I'm not from CA, but the license thing is weird and will be hard to explain.

 

[Dalteparin]

Dude, calm down. If you had told us about the APhA grant or what your actual volunteer duties were before, we'd have had a more complete picture.

I sincerely apologize for upsetting you; as I said before, my comments were not intended as a personal attack and I'm very sorry if they came off as such. While I said that compared to some other residency applicants, you may look like a slacker; that does not mean that you are one or that you are doomed to never get a residency.

At the same time, you asked us for honest feedback and that is what you received. I'm sorry you didn't hear what you wanted to hear, but as I tell my students, you can never improve if nobody tells you what you're doing wrong.

 

[rocknhardplace]

Thanks. I am NOT mad at all. I appreciate that you all take the time to give me feedback. It's not easy to distinguish reasons vs. excuses. I am literally scared at this point. Talking to some of you help.

Why volunteer instead of working? In Southern California (LA, OC, San Diego) is very saturated. There are more pharmacists than what you know to do with them. I did receive an offer with a community pharmacy position but it would be at a far off geographical region. I have my family here. In addition, volunteering position is hard to come by. Where I volunteer, it is a very structured and defined responsibilities. I get to go on rounds (no inputs at the actual rounds but looking at profiles, learning with the pharmacist I am with), precept students. It is not like I come and go as I please. I think that not too many DOP would be so willing and open to help me as the one I am with. Therefore I took this offer. Trust me, making $60/hour is very attractive tight now. I have student loans to pay and I am paying them right now. It's painful.

The currently place where I volunteer is loosing money. Most of you know, hospitals' budgets depend on census. Our census is low these days. And pharmacists have do "flexing". On the day that low census, some pharmacists would have to leave 2 hours early etc. And that is the reason why there is not space for me at this place. In addition, I have already promised the DOP that I would put in X amount of time. I want to fulfill that commitment.

As for the license thing, the NAPLEX is very standard. We all know what they are. For CPJE, the law portion, California is still not like other states as far as I know (or heard). They have plenty of clinical questions in the law portion. And the questions are harder than NAPLEX. They require a certain number of exams so they can do QA and statistics to grade the exam. It can take as long as three months to get the results and many of my classmates had to wait that long. By the third month, I got panic. I called my professors, district manager (where I used to be an intern) for help. No one could. The BOP was not very responsive to my email let alone my calls. All the back and forth costed me another five months for my license. As a result, it took almost nine months to get my license.

DELTAPARIN and SPACECOWGIRL: Thank you for the honest feedback. I agree that receptive and learning from feedback is how you learn.

 

[Dalteparin]

OK, that clears things up a bit. I have a few other questions, though. You say you can't leave southern CA because of your family; how are you supporting them with only a volunteer job? Can you get a part-time or PRN job in addition to your volunteer work? When you apply for residencies, you will be competing with new grads and practicing pharmacists with paid experience and your volunteer work just won't look as good next to that. Also, I know it would be difficult to move with a family, but if your options are get a job outside the area or stay where you are and be unemployed indefinitely... maybe the responsible thing to do is move. Just some food for thought.

At this point, I think it'd be best if you'd wait before applying for residencies. Find a job, move if you have to, get those student loans paid off and get at least a year at the same employer under your belt. And if residency is still what you want to do, then apply.

 

[rocknhardplace]

It it were an inpatient position, I would move in a heart beat. Money is not an issue for me at this point. I will not volunteer until the next residency cycle. I have to move on. I am almost midway through the volunteer time commitment. I am looking to apply for a position soon.

Another reason I want to do a good job with the volunteer is the potential residency spot that they will create soon. It is still in the work and it gets off the ground it will be in Sept time frame.

 

[spacecowgirl]

It it were an inpatient position, I would move in a heart beat. Money is not an issue for me at this point. I will not volunteer until the next residency cycle. I have to move on. I am almost midway through the volunteer time commitment. I am looking to apply for a position soon.

Another reason I want to do a good job with the volunteer is the potential residency spot that they will create soon. It is still in the work and it gets off the ground it will be in Sept time frame.

But the actual residency wouldn't start until July 1st. That's a precious year you could be working.

 

[Medmani]

Hello every one,

I just got an offer to join residency out of the match for a vacant position from last year, I went for the interview and they offered me the position. the program director sent me an email and formally gave me the position. I have my application ready for next year 2012...is the prg Director email bindidng and legally valid or should I apply through the match this year just in case !

Please help !

 

[Dalteparin]

Hello every one,

I just got an offer to join residency out of the match for a vacant position from last year, I went for the interview and they offered me the position. the program director sent me an email and formally gave me the position. I have my application ready for next year 2012...is the prg Director email bindidng and legally valid or should I apply through the match this year just in case !

Please help !

You just NOW got an offer? Residencies start July 1st. Are you sure this program is accredited? Whether it's legally binding I can't say (it probably depends on the laws where you live), but if they can't fill the spot until two months after the residency years starts, that's a big red flag to me. I'd be very wary of this program.

 

[bacillus1]

You just NOW got an offer? Residencies start July 1st. Are you sure this program is accredited? Whether it's legally binding I can't say (it probably depends on the laws where you live), but if they can't fill the spot until two months after the residency years starts, that's a big red flag to me. I'd be very wary of this program.

Note, the above poster is a medical student. the residency process may be different for them. I'm guessing he/she's wondering because their residencies are multiple years. He/she just posted in the wrong forum.

 

[Dalteparin]

Note, the above poster is a medical student. the residency process may be different for them. I'm guessing he/she's wondering because their residencies are multiple years. He/she just posted in the wrong forum.

I knew I shouldn't have posted before my 2nd cup of coffee.

 

[njac]

For those who are in California. If you ever have any problems dealing with the the BOP, I would like to hear that you can get through with them very quickly and resolve things quickly.

As soon as I get my license I will be contacting my elected officials regarding the terrible state of the CA BOP.

 

[xiphoid2010]

As soon as I get my license I will be contacting my elected officials regarding the terrible state of the CA BOP.

This is pretty much true for any government agency, where they know that you have no alternatives. It took Texas BOP 8 weeks to get my license, after a ton of phone calls until I found a nice person who understood my situation -- I could lose the job offer if it took any longer. Now why wife is going through the same thing, 8 week after she submitted everything, they still haven't sent her the MPJE test authorization yet. 🙁 Well, it's still short compared to INS (immigration and naturalization service), took almost 2 years to process my citizenship application after I became eligible.

 

[njac]

This is pretty much true for any government agency, where they know that you have no alternatives. It took Texas BOP 8 weeks to get my license, after a ton of phone calls until I found a nice person who understood my situation -- I could lose the job offer if it took any longer. Now why wife is going through the same thing, 8 week after she submitted everything, they still haven't sent her the MPJE test authorization yet. 🙁 Well, it's still short compared to INS (immigration and naturalization service), took almost 2 years to process my citizenship application after I became eligible.

yes, but this is my 4th RPh license. I know for a fact that other states don't take this long and require this many asinine steps.

 

[njac]

oh, and I laugh at your 8 weeks. My coworker started the process in March and just got her license Friday, I started the process in May and am still waiting.

If only it had only been 8 weeks.

 

[moolman]

I call Shenanigans on the licensing process taking 9 months in CA just because your address is wrong. You're licensed in CA the day your license shows up on the CA BOP website. Regardless of what address you put down and they could of sent the actual license to Mexico, you're licensed on that day. Licensing can take a long time in CA, maybe up to 3-4 months if you took the CPJE early in the QA process and they hold up your score. But 9 months basically means you failed either NAPLEX/CJPE or you are ******ed. If it was some crazy, crazy error on the part of the CA BOP, I would of driven there and camped out in front of the BOP office in a tent until they got it fixed. Obviously, OP is rich because not working for years and then not caring about getting paid right now and volunteering, hence no incentive to get on CA BOP to get his license. Who here wouldn't have gone balistic and camped out in Sacramento. Or at least anybody with a true story...haha...

 

[njac]

I call Shenanigans on the licensing process taking 9 months in CA just because your address is wrong. You're licensed in CA the day your license shows up on the CA BOP website. Regardless of what address you put down and they could of sent the actual license to Mexico, you're licensed on that day. Licensing can take a long time in CA, maybe up to 3-4 months if you took the CPJE early in the QA process and they hold up your score. But 9 months basically means you failed either NAPLEX/CJPE or you are ******ed. If it was some crazy, crazy error on the part of the CA BOP, I would of driven there and camped out in front of the BOP office in a tent until they got it fixed. Obviously, OP is rich because not working for years and then not caring about getting paid right now and volunteering, hence no incentive to get on CA BOP to get his license. Who here wouldn't have gone balistic and camped out in Sacramento. Or at least anybody with a true story...haha...

...for reals.

If I don't have mine by Tuesday I'm going with a freaking television crew.

But I think your 3-4 months is generous depending on time frames. My coworker submitted her app in March and just got her license last Friday. I submitted the end of May and mine should be here any day now... and BTW, neither of us was in the QA. Can you imagine if they'd held on to CPJE results for another 3 months? Then we would be talking 6-9 months.

 

[moolman]

You're saying you and your co-worker submitted your apps for licensing after you got confirmation that you passed both tests. Or are you saying from when you submitted your app before you took the tests. If you're counting from the original day you submitted apps to be able to sit for the exams, that can take months and months since it's up to you to schedule the tests and there has to be room for you to take the tests. But from when you find out you passed both tests to when you are licensed should be no more than 3 months if you are in QA and less than a month if no QA.

 

[njac]

You're saying you and your co-worker submitted your apps for licensing after you got confirmation that you passed both tests. Or are you saying from when you submitted your app before you took the tests. If you're counting from the original day you submitted apps to be able to sit for the exams, that can take months and months since it's up to you to schedule the tests and there has to be room for you to take the tests. But from when you find out you passed both tests to when you are licensed should be no more than 3 months if you are in QA and less than a month if no QA.

Initial application with fingerprints, transcripts, etc: Coworker - March, Me - May
Received ATT: Coworker - Late June, Me - Mid July
Take CPJE: Coworker - Mid July, Me - Late July (I took mine less than a week after I got my ATT)
CPJE results: Coworker - Late July, Me - Early August

When you get your CPJE results they also have a last piece of paper you have to fill out and mail in with yet another check (My results werepostmarked 4 days after I took CPJE, but due to mail forwarding because of my move, I got them about 10 days post-CPJE, so I lost a week there, not to the fault of the CA BOP) and they claim you'll be processed within 10 business days.

However, she had actually come to CA and had LiveScan prints done in March while I did a fingerprint card. Last week of August she got a letter saying there was a LiveScan error and she could redo it to expedite the process. She received her license 2 days later.

About 10 business days after I submitted my final piece I contacted the BOP and was told my check was processed and it was going to the next desk. This was last Thursday. Yesterday I e-mailed asking where my application was in the process and this morning I got an e-mail (and a letter in the mail) stating that my prints were insufficient and now I need to have them redone via LiveScan.

This is beyond ridiculous. What if I had not still been in residency when I accepted this job? At least I had the month of June that I was still working. At this point it has been over a month since I took the CPJE and 2 days short of my results being sent out. Why were these issues (fingerprints) not assessed earlier in the process?