Matching and Ranking

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I'm sorry, can someone please explain to me the point of asking a program director where you are going to be ranked?

How does that affect your rank list?

I mean, if you were going to be ranked last at a program that you really liked, wouldn't you still rank them first.

Just curious

 

[HbyHA]

i'm thinking it has to do with type "A" personalities (read: medical students) trying to exert a small amount of control over a situation that is absolutely out of their control?

but that's just my thinking😀

 

[KeratinPearls]

I'm sorry, can someone please explain to me the point of asking a program director where you are going to be ranked?

How does that affect your rank list?

I mean, if you were going to be ranked last at a program that you really liked, wouldn't you still rank them first.

Just curious

Some places may consider it to mean you have interest in the program. I'm sure many programs have applicants doing the same, so really, the impact is minimal. On the other hand, if a program thinks of you highly, then asking where you will be ranked will have a positive impact.

Rank programs based on where you want to end up. DO NOT RANK PLACES BASED ON WHERE YOU THINK YOU WILL MATCH. DO NOT RANK IN HOPES OF JUST MATCHING. If you did not feel you could see yourself at program X, do not rank the program, or else you will be miserable. Four years is a very long time.

 

[yaah]

i'm thinking it has to do with type "A" personalities (read: medical students) trying to exert a small amount of control over a situation that is absolutely out of their control?

but that's just my thinking😀

I think that's probably right. Lots of people feel like it improves their chances if they know as much as they can about what the PDs are thinking. It's not true, because the match favors the applicants. All a residency candidate has to know is, as iterated above, RANK THE PROGRAMS IN THE ORDER THAT YOU PREFER THEM. Do not try to predict where the programs will rank you (even if you could, it still wouldn't matter). Do not try to think you are gaming the system by ranking weaker programs higher, that does not help you.

There is no point in asking a PD where you will be ranked. Technically, that is against the rules of the match so I wouldn't do it. PDs can offer that information without you asking, but you can't ask for it. If you really like a program and it is your top choice, there is very little harm in telling them that (as long as you only do this for one program). That shows your interest.

 

[bioguy]

If you really like a program and it is your top choice, there is very little harm in telling them that (as long as you only do this for one program). That shows your interest.

Are you sure about the "very little harm" part? Coz I just did that to my most favorite program.

 

[djmd]

Are you sure about the "very little harm" part? Coz I just did that to my most favorite program.

Oh no, maybe the program director believes in Groucho principle resident selection and you just got removed from their list...

 

[yaah]

Are you sure about the "very little harm" part? Coz I just did that to my most favorite program.

While residency application is somewhat like dating, I don't think the "I scared her off because I seemed a little too eager" thing is as problematic. Now, if you call every day and send flowers, then that might scare them off. But telling them you like them should not freak them out. If it does, then it's probably best you don't go there. There are probably many programs, however, who ignore these comments from residency applicants because (surprise!) they have been told that many times before by people who failed to match with them (which means the applicant did not, in fact, rank them #1).

 

[bioguy]

Oh no, maybe the program director believes in Groucho principle resident selection and you just got removed from their list...

do you? it seems you just did 😀

 

[HbyHA]

Rank programs based on where you want to end up. DO NOT RANK PLACES BASED ON WHERE YOU THINK YOU WILL MATCH. DO NOT RANK IN HOPES OF JUST MATCHING. If you did not feel you could see yourself at program X, do not rank the program, or else you will be miserable. Four years is a very long time.

That is the exact bit of advice i give every residency candidate that i have interviewed... and i hope they take it!

 

[yaah]

Nobody ever seems to understand that point. They always say, "But what if..." and make some convoluted argument about how ranking programs differently will somehow improve their chances of matching at reach programs. IT DOES NOT. Do not bother trying to argue with it or figure it out or create some complex algorithm. The match has already done this, just rank them in the order you prefer them.

 

[HbyHA]

Nobody ever seems to understand that point. They always say, "But what if..." and make some convoluted argument about how ranking programs differently will somehow improve their chances of matching at reach programs. IT DOES NOT. Do not bother trying to argue with it or figure it out or create some complex algorithm. The match has already done this, just rank them in the order you prefer them.

could it be that (and this goes back to my orginal point of the type A personality), that some med students don't believe that it could really be that simple...

there always has to be a trick somewhere, doesn't there?

 

[yaah]

I think that's part of it. Plus, it is very easy to believe a conspiracy theory or anecdotes masquerading as facts. Most people know some guy who had a friend who had heard of someone's cousin a few years back who ranked a program #10 but didn't match there, even though someone else said the program had him ranked to match.

 

[Dral]

There seems to be so much that goes into it though. I'm not referring to ranking programs because one may have heard they had a better chance or for whatever reason, but instead on how to even rank to begin with. If there's a middle tier program that you thought had the coolest residents and attendings, but not as good teaching, vs. an upper tier program that you didn't quite like as much, vs another middle tier with great teaching and learning opportunities, but a few residents you didn't quite mesh with on interview day, it seems it could get difficult to choose.

I guess like a lot of these decisions you have to think it all through, then rely on a gut reaction.

 

[malchik]

I'm sorry, can someone please explain to me the point of asking a program director where you are going to be ranked?

I think this is against the match rules. My understanding is you can volunteer where you will rank somebody but you can't ask or pressure someone to reveal where they will rank you.

 

[yaah]

Personally, I would not weigh such prematch disclosures heavily. Aside from the reliability issues, I suspect the halo of 'being wanted' evaporates immediately; once you match your prematch rank is irrelevant as you are measured by results.

Indeed. If it really matters to someone, they can lie after the fact and say that they matched at their #1 choice, even if it was #3 on their list. No one really cares, nor could they find out without hacking into the nrmp database. I suspect people lie like this all the time in some vain attempt at deception.

 

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this is not difficult...everyone should think about this like fantasy sports...it would make things much easier