Matching Process

[Deleted member 750603]

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If you watch this video you will find that Sunny is not matched anywhere yet there are positions available.

What happens to these people in real life? Seems weird to have to wait and match a year later if there are spaces that are not being filled because of algorithm designs (flaws in my opinion). Resources have dedicated to train this individual and now as a good as wasted (based on the video). What recourses are there for these people?

 

[AdmiralChz]

While I understand it’s frustrating that not everyone finds a spot in the Match, as a system there are more applicants than spots.

Overall, 78.3% if applicants matched to a PGY-1 position (check NRMP stats here: Main Residency Match Data and Reports - The Match, National Resident Matching Program). Yes, the system is slanted towards US MD grads as they tend to be the most competitive applicants which is why 94.3% of them match straight up with most of the rest finding spots in SOAP.

For programs, 96.1% of slots are filled in the main Match. I’d challenge you to come up with a better system. It’s an impersonal and “black box”/frustrating system but it is what it is - graduates of other US professional schools (law, business) would do anything for a 96% employment rate out of graduate school.

 

[Deleted member 750603]

What's wrong with applying to residencies just like you apply to medical school. All the medical seats get filled as far I know. This way the program knows how many seats they have filled vs how many are open.

With the match if you don't rank enough you may not fill the positions at all.

It doesn't seem like the algorithm is in place to fill spots, but to literally match preferences of applicants and programs. It's just a dating game.

Just honestly seems like technology for the sake of technology to me. I guess I need to understand why this system was implemented in the first place. Is it a matter of saving time in some sense? What system did this new matching system replace?

That's ok, it is what it is.

 

[rokshana]

What's wrong with applying to residencies just like you apply to medical school. All the medical seats get filled as far I know. This way the program knows how many seats they have filled vs how many are open.

With the match if you don't rank enough you may not fill the positions at all.

It doesn't seem like the algorithm is in place to fill spots, but to literally match preferences of applicants and programs. It's just a dating game.

Just honestly seems like technology for the sake of technology to me. I guess I need to understand why this system was implemented in the first place. Is it a matter of saving time in some sense? What system did this new matching system replace?

That's ok, it is what it is.

It was set up so students were not pressured to take the first spot offered up to them but instead are able to interview and decide on which program best suited them.
While the current match leaves some people unmatched , it overall is geared to perfer the student not the program.

And in general us senior that do t match had something that didn’t optimatze their chances...didn’t apply to enough places or did t rank enough places, rank higher than their reach, so forth. DOs and I/FMGs are a different story since they aren’t as competitive as the us senior

 

[NotAProgDirector]

It was put in place because without it, students were placed in very difficult positions. You would interview at program A, and they would offer you a spot with a contract. You were told you could sign the contract, but then you're committed to the program. If you had an interview with Program B later, you'd either have to let the spot at A go (and they would offer the spot to someone else), or take the spot and "settle".

Putting it into your medical school application model, let's imagine that after you get your 1st school acceptance, they tell you that you have to commit to them by paying them the entire 1st year tuition payment in 48 hours, or they will rescind the offer. That's what it was like.

Programs and schools are very different. I have a very specific number of interns I can take. if I'm approved for 14, I can only take 14. Not 15 or 16. Schools may have a class size of 100, but can function with 90-110. Plus, there are many more US students looking to get into medical school than there are seats, so if someone pulls out at the last minute, the school can refill the spot. For many residency fields, there are more spots than US candidates, so they then fill from the very large number of non-US candidates.

 

[ucladoc2b]

If I recall correctly, wasn’t the Match at first limited to internship spots?

 

[mvenus929]

If I recall correctly, wasn’t the Match at first limited to internship spots?

Probably. Subspecialties (at least in Peds) just started using it within the past 10 years (for Endo, they've been matching less than 5 years).

 

[evilbooyaa]

If you watch this video you will find that Sunny is not matched anywhere yet there are positions available.

What happens to these people in real life? Seems weird to have to wait and match a year later if there are spaces that are not being filled because of algorithm designs (flaws in my opinion). Resources have dedicated to train this individual and now as a good as wasted (based on the video). What recourses are there for these people?

In regards to your question about Sunny - clearly she rubbed the people at Mercy the wrong way enough to not even end up on their rank list when she interviewed there. Mercy would rather have taken their chances with somebody off the street than her.

That is why Sunny didn't match.

 

[WingedOx]

Probably. Subspecialties (at least in Peds) just started using it within the past 10 years (for Endo, they've been matching less than 5 years).

Yeah, and in some cases it's kind of obnoxious. CL psych uses it which really pissed me off a couple years ago. I interviewed at a very good CL program during the fall of my 4th year while I already had 2 really good attending job offers on the table and would have had to wait until January if I had gotten in. I backed out and decided it just wasn't worth it. Psych fellowships aren't competitive enough to justify it.

 

[WingedOx]

Though congrats to the OP for not citing that stupid 2003 lawsuit that claimed that the Match is suppressing resident salaries. Our favorite Vanderbilt surgery resident was making the same claims last week on his twitter feed.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Though congrats to the OP for not citing that stupid 2003 lawsuit that claimed that the Match is suppressing resident salaries. Our favorite Vanderbilt surgery resident was making the same claims last week on his twitter feed.

Contract renewals should be going on around now... I wonder when he'll be our favorite ex-Vanderbilt surgery resident.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Contract renewals should be going on around now... I wonder when he'll be our favorite ex-Vanderbilt surgery resident.

It's too bad the other thread was moved and shut down. Really was great for comic relief.

 

[WingedOx]

It's too bad the other thread was moved and shut down. Really was great for comic relief.

You have no idea how much I want that thread back. There's been a lot of completely ridiculous stuff on the internet related to his case:

 

[DOMD2be]

I apologize if that question has been posted before, but if you do not match, what’s inside the enveloppe at Match Day?

 

[WingedOx]

I apologize if that question has been posted before, but if you do not match, what’s inside the enveloppe at Match Day?

Match day envelopes are printed out by the schools themselves, so they just fill in the blank with wherever you scrambled/SOAP'd to.

 

[togaedere]

Also if you don’t match and don’t soap into a position you don’t go to match day.

I apologize if that question has been posted before, but if you do not match, what’s inside the enveloppe at Match Day?

 

[ThoracicGuy]

You have no idea how much I want that thread back. There's been a lot of completely ridiculous stuff on the internet related to his case:

Feel free to post it in this thread or start a new one. The train wreck is something you can't turn your head from.

 

[WingedOx]

Feel free to post it in this thread or start a new one. The train wreck is something you can't turn your head from.

Eh, maybe when something interesting happens with his case. He hasn't talked too much about his program except asking for a new residency for his birthday then having an interaction with Louise Mensch in that thread. (yes, THAT Louise Mensch).

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Eh, maybe when something interesting happens with his case. He hasn't talked too much about his program except asking for a new residency for his birthday then having an interaction with Louise Mensch in that thread. (yes, THAT Louise Mensch).

So apparently he was marching in LA for gun control. How'd he get time off from residency to do that, I wonder...

 

[WingedOx]

So apparently he was marching in LA for gun control. How'd he get time off from residency to do that, I wonder...

Meh, he can do whatever he wants with his golden weekends. I'd hate to give him more fuel to his persecution complex that his problems are 2/2 his politics.

 

[Dral]

Dermpath fellowship spots are rolling. I luckily had an easy time with it and my first offer was at the program where I wanted to train. However, experiencing both methods, the match (vs rolling offers) is much better (and organized)....and this is coming from someone who didn't match Derm first time around in the traditional match.

Stop and think about how a rolling process works. If you get an interview offer from shabby program A, you take it...it's an interview and WHO KNOWS WHAT WILL HAPPEN (if other programs would even offer you an interview). The place calls you a week later and offers you a spot. You can't just sit on it and collect offers. You're supposed to get back to them within a few days (enough time to discuss with family/sig others, think about location, etc). You then decide to take the spot because WHO KNOWS WHAT WILL HAPPEN (if other programs would even offer you an interview, let alone offer you a spot).

Your options would have been:

A. Play it conservative, take the spot, get no more offers, thank your lucky stars
B. Play it conservative, take the spot, super dream awesome program offers you an interview a week later...but you already accepted what is to be assumed a binding agreement (that's a whole potential Pandora's box right there).
C. Risk it, turn down the spot, get an interview from awesome program. But don't get an offer. Sorry!
D. Risk it, turn down the spot, get an interview from awesome program. You are offered a spot...BINGO, winner winner chicken dinner.
E. Risk it, turn down the spot, get no other offers. Sorry!

That's a simplified example and there may be other scenarios I'm missing, but as you can see, only 2/5 of those scenarios are optimal outcomes.

Hopefully that illustrates how a rolling process puts the power in the hands of the programs.

That doesn't even get at the fact that in a rolling offer system, programs would all front load their interview schedules to try to get the best candidates. There would be tons of scheduling conflicts, missed opportunities, wasted time, crossed wires, etc.

 

[el_duderino]

If you watch this video you will find that Sunny is not matched anywhere yet there are positions available.

What happens to these people in real life? Seems weird to have to wait and match a year later if there are spaces that are not being filled because of algorithm designs (flaws in my opinion). Resources have dedicated to train this individual and now as a good as wasted (based on the video). What recourses are there for these people?

Sunny SOAPs into an unfilled position somewhere. People in the thread have alluded to it, but not directly answered the question. It's not a flaw, it's by design.

 

[WingedOx]

Stop and think about how a rolling process works. If you get an interview offer from shabby program A, you take it...it's an interview and WHO KNOWS WHAT WILL HAPPEN (if other programs would even offer you an interview). The place calls you a week later and offers you a spot. You can't just sit on it and collect offers. You're supposed to get back to them within a few days (enough time to discuss with family/sig others, think about location, etc). You then decide to take the spot because WHO KNOWS WHAT WILL HAPPEN (if other programs would even offer you an interview, let alone offer you a spot).

Of course if you really want to get into it, you can hear some old school legends about IM fellowships in the pre-match days where they expected you to give them a decision before you left the building on the day of your interview.