Maybe switching to PTA

[seminolefish]

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Hey guys, so I'm in my second semester of DPT school and I've been thinking about the "PT Diagnosis" and the clinical investigations PTs have to do all the time. A lot of PT students thrive off of this and it gets them through the day at school knowing they will be able to solve these problems one day. I'm not too keen on this and found out I would rather treat an individual without having to do the evaluation, come up with a plan and make STGs and LTGs. All of the paperwork involved also seems burdensome to me.

Then it dawned on me that for some reason, I never ever thought about being a PTA because it was "beneath me" even though I shadowed them A LOT when doing hours for the application for DPT school and I enjoyed it. I think I had a false picture of what a PT does compared to a PTA. I didn't do enough research and now I'm going to pay for it (1st year of DPT school tuition) if I decide to go the PTA route. I'm going to go shadow some PTAs to get a better impression and to ask questions. I have so many people telling me not to even consider it and it's starting to drive me insane. I honestly think I'd be happier being a PTA. I know there are not as many opportunities for PTA as a PT but I know PTAs can still do outpatient, SNF, and home health which is what I'm most interested in. PTA is also a sure job just like PT which is what I'm looking for in this economy. I just want a lesser, but still important, role in rehab.

Any thoughts? Input? Thanks guys.

 

[hefe]

Well if worse case scenarios happens and the sky falls on reimbursement structures, the PTA's will possibly be at the chopping block on the first level, I'd imagine. What if some medicare law is passed and reimbursement for PTA work done under PT supervision is decreased (while PT also gets cuts)? Medicare could make having PTA's in a practice less desirable to owners. Will it happen? No one can really know, healthcare here in the US isn't set in stone.

What if the outpatient places you may apply to work decide that they only prefer to keep PT's on staff for ortho for the higher skill set in the practice? Not all practices are utilizing PTA's.

Sounds like you just want to do slightly less thinking and settle for a more physically active job that depending on the practice side heavier on logistical work for a few pay notches decrease. You may be 'in the trenches' so to speak as performing more sets and reps, you'll probably be following a plan a PT creates with possibly your input being taking into consideration or not.

Do you think you'll like being 20-30 years into your career on not have options to transfer into a less physically demanding setting. Your body is young now, how about when you're 50-60?

If you go to U of FL you're probably getting some quite cheap IS tuition. Dropping out and doing another 2-3 years before you get your PTA license, you'll probably be a PT by then. You'll still probably pay the similar prices for PTA school as PT school, but have more options. Worst care scenario, you could be a PT, but function as a PTA and have someone else do billing and care management. You probably will take a serious pay cut and have to convince them why you're expecting decreased responsibility. They may or may not go for it when job hunting.

Your a first year?.. Have you even done any of your PT clinicals yet for an extended time yet in school, I doubt it. You'll likely have a better grasp on PT and PTA interaction when you go for that 4-6 month clinical later in your schooling. Plus, not all PT settings are as paperwork heavy as others I imagine.

Your schooling right now is cheap enough and there's plenty that would like to be in your shoes. Not to mention you'll still only be able to practice 2 years from now minimum anyway. Seems like a no-brainer to just finish out what you're doing. Not to mention potentially >1 million dollars in income over the lifetime of your future career.

Perhaps you'll want to be able to gain acess to PT treatment when you're in retirement yourself... Being able to pay for those treatments and other medical conditions would be nice. 😀

 

[SLOlivin]

I'm with you brother. As I began to evaluate both career paths I saw that PTA had more of the elements I was looking for job satisfaction wise. I do realize that your ceiling is much shorter as a PTA but if you enjoy the work PTA's do then it should't play that big a factor. I also struggled with being looked at as a subordinate, but sometimes you have to shove the pride aside and be cool with taking orders from the PT(they have more education so it is what it is). In my case I have a bachelors degree, significant sports rehab expereince, so combine these 2 with a PTA degree and I think it will add to my credibility. PTA's with a bachelors degree start out at a higher salary than those without in the people I have spoke to in the profession.

Another thing that helped me out was I began talking to PTA's and most if not all felt very respected by the PT's they worked along side with and felt that PT's did give them the freedom to modify rehab treatments as the PTA saw necessary. This was encouraging to hear.

Lastly, as I've seen discussed a grip on this thread is PT school is going to cost about 75K+, while a PTA degree is going to cost about 20K or less. This can not be ignored when thinking about being saddled with loans as you get older and have a family and what not.

I agree with all that HEFE said, life's a gamble whatever direction you take. And yea like he said if the major factor is you just don't wantt to put in the work that PT school requires, I'd say that is not a good reason to quit. But if the other factors are what's playing the bigger role in your decision go with them.

Bottom line is do what's right for you brother. For me I'm leaning towards PTA based some of the things you discussed, my own observations, and my diiscussions with both PT's and PTA's. Take it easy.

-Eric

 

[hefe]

P.S. some of the most interesting people in healthcare I've met are PTA's, I'm not knocking them. You gave one side, I'm just saying you should consider the other before dropping out.

 

[seminolefish]

You're right about my one-sidedness and your points are why I haven't dropped out yet. I decided to stick it out this semester to see where it goes and to not make any rash decisions since I already paid the tuition. By the way, UF is 20K a year for me. Any PTA school would be ~4K a year. I'm going to shadow a PTA really soon and ask him/her every question I can possibly think of. I just don't like what I'm doing now in PT school and you're right about the thinking. I'd rather take a pay cut than have to do all of this thinking. Although, I'm not exactly keen on being more physical in PTA than PT.... maybe I should look for a desk job. Those are hard to come by in this economy though.

 

[hefe]

Well apologies on the tuition bit, I didn't know. Your tuition is about average, and I'm guessing that PTA is that less b/c of it'd be at a Comm Coll. Some programs are at 4 year institutions (not 4 years long) as well.

Really take time to think about it. Talk to as many PT's/ PTA's as you can, shadow on your evenings and off time. Perhaps, get your school's clinical setting numbers and call up various practices and see if they have PTA's. If they do ask anonymously if you can shadow/ talk to them. When you do perhaps after talking to the PTA on site, talk to the PT in the same setting as well. See how both see their roles play out and how they are similar/differ.

Only you can make your decision, so invest the time now as best you can through this semester. Best of luck!

 

[markelmarcel]

I think you got from great advice from both people and you're doing the right thing by taking your time (somewhat) with the decision.

I, myself, want to be pushed hard. I've never struggled and I want that struggle to learn and be "smart", and I did feel like if I went PTA I'd be unhappy/selling myself short.

However, I've talked to PTAs that are very happy within their jobs, too. 🙂

Although- I do want to mention that if you are struggling with the work, not wanting to put in the time, that you are still going to have to learn anatomy, neurology, therapy techniques, etc, etc to be a PTA, you aren't going to get out of that regardless of what you do.

 

[SLOlivin]

thought I'd pass this note along from a PTA program director I was just speaking to...the note is in regard to a question I asked her about the PTA outlook and how revampled healthcare could impact the PTA profession.

"To answer your final question, it is a challenging time right now primarily due to the ongoing recession. For the first time in many years some of our graduates are only finding part-time employment rather than full-time with in the county that our program is established. There are also possible changes in reimbursement that could, as you note, impact the income of a PTA. We are not seeing that phenomenon yet. PTAs have been an integral part of the field of physical therapy for more than 30 years. I do not see that changing. The increasing potential patient load of the baby boomers bodes well for full clinics once we have weathered the recession and people feel able to spend money again. "

Since you are already in PT school I'd say you are making a wise choice in sticking with it for a while longer. And desk jobs are not all that great brother, I've been an accountant the last 5 years and it has not been fun. That's why I'm making the switch to physical therapy profession.

 

[jesspt]

Seminole -

Hey guys, so I'm in my second semester of DPT school and I've been thinking about the "PT Diagnosis" and the clinical investigations PTs have to do all the time.

What did you think you were getting into? PTs are professionals, not tehcnicians. A logical thought process and ability to solve problems is essential. Also, these qualities are what seperate the good PTAs from the average. You won't be getting away from them as a PTA.

And then you say this.....

I'd rather take a pay cut than have to do all of this thinking.

I'm pretty sure with this attititude that there really isn't a healthcare job that is a fit for you.

 

[seminolefish]

I think the problem is that I feel so overwhelmed right now and it seems pretty dang hard...and it will for awhile. I just need to get used to it for the next 2 years of school and then I'm sure for 5 or so years of PT practice until I gain so much experience that I'll be comfortable and see patterns quite often. I just have to get through this huge learning phase and eventually I will reap the rewards.

Sorry JessPT I don't mean literally what I say. I'm prob saying those statements because I'm feeling overwhelmed. I do like to "think" but right now it makes my head spin with how much info I'm taking in every day at school. I believe it will get easier as I start to integrate all of this information and start seeing and recognizing patterns. Is this what you encountered JessPT and did you ever struggle with PT school?

Today really helped me as well as one of the 2nd year students was recently diagnosed with Bell's Palsy in Neuroscience today. It was fascinating as we saw her and was learning the mechanism behind it. We also did gait analysis yesterday and I liked it a lot. I've always dreamed of helping patients with prosthetic(s) so maybe this is a strong possibility.

 

[jesspt]

I think the problem is that I feel so overwhelmed right now and it seems pretty dang hard...and it will for awhile. I just need to get used to it for the next 2 years of school and then I'm sure for 5 or so years of PT practice until I gain so much experience that I'll be comfortable and see patterns quite often. I just have to get through this huge learning phase and eventually I will reap the rewards.

PT school is hard, but many have been through it successfully. One thing to ask yourself is are you using all of the resources available to you? Are you forming study groups? Are you asking your professors questions during their office hours? Are you seeking advice from 2nd year students, etc? If not, you should probably consider trying these things.

Sorry JessPT I don't mean literally what I say. I'm prob saying those statements because I'm feeling overwhelmed.

Keep in mind that a message board is a difficult forum with which to communicate, as many statements that in person may be taken with a grain of salt, can seem quite literal when read. Certainly, one is entitled to vent, commiserate, etc., but you may want to think about how certain statements may come across in this forum before you post them.

I believe it will get easier as I start to integrate all of this information and start seeing and recognizing patterns. Is this what you encountered JessPT and did you ever struggle with PT school?

Certainly, as you gain experience as a graduate student, your ability to assimilate larger amounts of information will improve, and your study habits will become more efficient. Keep your nose to the grindstone.

In a more direct response to your question, as our profession has researched expert clinical practice, one aspect of it is indeed pattern recognition. And I certainly did notice an increased ease in identifying certain patterns of symptomology and how to best treat them as I gained more clinical experience. But, keep in mind, PT is an evolving field, and I don't treat very many patients today as I did 5-10 years ago. So, even though students don't like to hear it, the didactic and clinical learning never really stops.

 

[seminolefish]

JessPT, the funny thing is is that I'm acing all of my classes so far this semester and I've been studying a little less this semester. Last semester I got all A's and a B+ so it's definitely not about the grades. I just have a hard time coping with the stress and thinking "on my feet" but those things should come easier the more I actually practice them. I hope. I actually did like Evidence Based Practice and I will incorporate that into my practice as much as possible. UF's curriculum involves 3 EBP classes. I will be taking EBP II in the summer. Most of the students in my class didn't like EBP AT ALL.

By the way, I do talk to the 2nd years a good amount and a lot of them went through what I did but made it and are loving it now. They're about to go on their 1st internships.

Honestly, I just find studying for tests not to be so bad but applying it in the clinic is quite a challenge which is what scares me because that's my job!

 

[split6kik]

While I am not in PT yet, I had a similar crisis after my applications this year. I started worrying about the responsibility that I will have diagnosing patients, and wasnt sure I would be able to do it well enough to catch something. But, its not like anyone goes into PT school with this natural ability to do that. Everyone learns it, and there are some great PTs who prob felt just as lost as us. Its good to know I am not the only one

I started thinking PTA when I finished my PT apps. At first I was applying as a back up, but then when I considered the career I thought it may be better. Less time & financial commitment, and after I could work in PT. I thought to myself if I wanted to pursue DPT after I always could, but my research showed that is alot more difficult than youd think. Most programs dont have a transition for PTA & only 1 school in the country that I know of accommodates a full-time work schedule.

Searching on this website & others led me to see it as this: PTA: some love their jobs, some wish they had just gone for the DPT. But I never found any DPT who wished they had just done PTA. So even though I still have concerns, I am doing DPT. Every persons choice is there own, but you are obviously on this thread to find some varying POVs, so that is mine. Goodluck!

 

[jesspt]

JessPT, the funny thing is is that I'm acing all of my classes so far this semester and I've been studying a little less this semester. Last semester I got all A's and a B+ so it's definitely not about the grades. I just have a hard time coping with the stress and thinking "on my feet" but those things should come easier the more I actually practice them. I hope. I actually did like Evidence Based Practice and I will incorporate that into my practice as much as possible. UF's curriculum involves 3 EBP classes. I will be taking EBP II in the summer. Most of the students in my class didn't like EBP AT ALL.

By the way, I do talk to the 2nd years a good amount and a lot of them went through what I did but made it and are loving it now. They're about to go on their 1st internships.

Honestly, I just find studying for tests not to be so bad but applying it in the clinic is quite a challenge which is what scares me because that's my job!

Make sure to get good clinical placements with good CIs which should help you with the clinical application of your didactic knowledge base.

 

[seminolefish]

I've also recently considered a career in Information Technology. I'm going to look into that as I may just want to get out of health care altogether. I've actually explored pharmacy and optometry before but just didn't like it. I realized last night I'd rather sit in lecture and learn than have to work on patients. I'm also concerned about my health as my joints are already starting to have problems. Therefore, I'm looking at computer careers. I'm just brainstorming though.

Anyone have any other insight? I know I'm all over the place. I need to figure it out soon.

 

[jbizzle]

Seminolefish!!!!!!, Maybe it's because your a nole at UF....just kidding.
OK, im in the IT department for a state agency here in Tallahassee since I was a freshman at FSU. So pretty much, what i've read from you, is that you dont even want to be in this field and that you'd rather be sitting at a desk job. You know what, I always say is do what makes you happy.

I hate my job and only planned on keeping it for 4 years until I graduated and got into PT school. When I didn't get into PT school the first time I was down and out. And started thinking about other professions as well, but I couldn't find anything else I would rather be doing. Everyone says that my job is so easy, good pay and all i do is sit all day until someone needs help, yeah true, but I wasn't happy/I was miserable. IT is not very satisfying (depends on the person I guess). I deal with people who don't know what the internet is, etc. And would you rather be sitting and be programming all day? Thats very boring, butt hat's just me though.

So pretty much, the message Im saying is do what you think will make you happy. I know you need to have a passion for PT which will make your treatment/service even better and if you don't, then I don't blame you what so ever, and encourage you to find something you will be happy doing. I dont think a patient would want a PT who is not passionate about their job.

 

[arvest25]

What kind of programming do yo do? C++? Visual basic? I know a little bit myself, haha! I started out majoring in computer science until I realized what I would be doing for the rest of my life....I have to MOVE while I'm working! Another reason why PT is perfect for me!

 

[johncronejr]

Well seminole, I think you have solved the dilemma about PT school. You say that you realized you don't want to work on patients at all. That would pretty well say to me that I was in the wrong field if that is so.

Of course, this was after your first post when you said you wanted to be a PTA because they actually got to work with patients more, but this whole process is a dynamic process. Don't feel bad that you seem to be all over the place.

If you realize that you don't want to work with patients, I wouldn't waste another day in PT school.

 

[seminolefish]

So I've been shadowing PTA's quite a bit in the hospital setting and I'm pretty sure I would rather do that. Yes I know I'd have to think but the level of responsibility suits me better as a person. Right now I'm looking for PT aide jobs here in Gainesville because I have to make some $$ before then. I'm still in PT school though and about to finish my 2nd semester. I'm probably going to start my 3rd semester and see where it goes but the reason I want to start my 3rd semester is because we start doing 1 day clinicals and I want to see how that goes. I might realize I love it...who knows, I want to give it a shot. I hate feeling like an idiot in PT school though...

 

[PTboy]

Seminolefish - seriously consider this,

I have been practicing PT for almost five years now and I am an APTA certified CI. I enjoy taking students because we also learn from students and trust me every student that has gone thru PT school probably had doubts and significant frustrations at one time. The faculty of my PT program told us that it was typical to have some type of physical or emotional breakdown during sometime in the program that I attended - obviously not very encouraging for new students and it put the fear of god in some of us.

If you are doing well in your didactic classes then you should be able to intergrate that knowledge into your clinicals. Keep in mind that when you start doing clinical work you will make mistakes, get extremely nervous, and feel very unorganized at times that is just part of the learning process. You may get a CI that is very laid back, like myself, or you may get CIs which I have had that you have to do it their way or the highway. Also keep in mind that once you graduate and get your PT license YOU CAN PRACTICE PT in the manner that best suits your practice style. For example, some PTs are very big on McKenzie for spine, etc. Others do a lot of in depth manual therapy and others focus more on exercises. I tend to take a very mixed bag approach, meaning, I do a combination of modalities, manual therapy, exercises, and some McKenzie, etc.

One key thing that I tell all of my students is that a good CI will help foster your development into a clinical style that best suits them. I do not expect my students to do evals the same way I do. I share my knowledge with them and help guide them at the same time. Also, once you start seeing similar Diagnoses and common problems such as plantar fasciitis and rotator cuff tendonitis it will become a lot easier. I tell my students that if you struggle during any outpatient ortho eval you can just create your problem list and treat that and many times you will be successful. For example, my overall POC doesn't change much if I think the person has an ankle sprain vs ankle strain or a shoulder strain versus rotator cuff tendonitis I basically calm their pain down, educate them on preventing further irritation, and then address postural and muscle imbalances. If you get good clinicals spots with good CIs that aren't ego driven then you should do very well. Keep in mind that you can also practice in so many different settings. I work full-time in an outpatient hospital setting and also work PRN in a SNF and I like the mixed caseloads.

Lastly, I am one of the few PTs that passes patients onto the PTAs at the hospital I work at. My good friend, who was a PTA, lost his job about 2 years ago when the economy was really bad mainly because the PTs in our department weren't passing patients off to the PTAs which we are encouraged to do in order to keep the overall flow of patients coming in and out smoothly. Obviously the more patients a PT passes off or cotreats with the PTA the more responsibility and the more evals one has to do. Also, certain insurance companies in the outpatient setting reimburse the services of a PTA lower then a PT. Our own director said he would never hire anymore PTAs in our hospital due to the above problems I mentioned and I do not know any surrounding outpatient centers/hospitals in my city that employ PTAs. However, I also work with PTAs in the SNF setting and we employ a lot of them and they make good money. My good friend who lost his job in the outpatient hospital went to the SNF (he had about 6 years of PTA experience) and he MADE MORE THAN WHAT I STARTED OUT AT MY FIRST YEAR IN THE HOSPITAL!. So you can still make good money with the PTA route but I think you may be limited in the area and practice setting. PTAs also have to do a lot of critical thinking in my opinion and I think that can also be very challenging and stressful at times because some PTs can be very picky when working with PTAs and want things done a specific way - trust me on this I have open conversations with many PTAs and I can understand their frustrations.
Lastly, you should definitely talk to someone you feel comfortable about your concerns- either another student in your program or a senior student, faculty member, student support service staff, etc. You are almost done with your first year and it would be a shame to switch your professional goals at this point. I would hang in there if I were you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think that if you stick it out in the end you will probably realize you made the right choice.

If you want to private message me I would be happy to give you my cell phone and you can feel free to call me.
Take care,
Josh, PT

 

[Roughneck85]

any updates on the job outlook for PTAs?

I look and i m getting mixed info

if anjyone can help me I would be so grateful

 

[MJ000]

This has been a very interesting thread. I am wondering what seminolefish decided to do? There were some interesting points brought up a PTA vs PT-- the act of "just doing" vs diagnosing and evaluating. Does anyone else have any perspective on this?

 

[AlanWattsBlues]

Anyone have any other insight? I know I'm all over the place. I need to figure it out soon.

I remember my first couple semesters of school. I hated it. Started to doubt if PT was what I really wanted. I was having a slightly different problem in that I thought there wasn't enough critical thinking involved. Our time was dominated by a professor and assistant professor who were...well...I don't carry a high opinion of their clinical skills, I'll put it like that.

But they made sure that each day was an opportunity for us to display our obedience to their authority. It overshadowed almost everything else about school, and after sacrificing so much to be there, I started to think I was in the wrong place.

But by the third semester we had an entirely different set of professors. Awesome clinicians and people who really cared about research. I'll start the fifth semester next week. It's a completely different experience for me now, and it's just been getting better.

So I don't know what your situation is, but your opinion of school and your picture of PT might be influenced by the professors who are grilling you. Maybe you dislike the thought processes PTs have to go through because you don't like their thought processes? Just a stab in the dark.

 

[DesertPT]

Rad thread bump.

As far as I have seen, PTA's in the outpatient ortho setting don't really provide services any differently than PT's do. In fact I don't think half the patients even realize that they had their eval done by a PT and the rest of their treatments provided by a PTA.

 

[jesspt]

Rad thread bump.

As far as I have seen, PTA's in the outpatient ortho setting don't really provide services any differently than PT's do. In fact I don't think half the patients even realize that they had their eval done by a PT and the rest of their treatments provided by a PTA.

Huh?

Find a new outpatient clinic to observe.

 

[DesertPT]

Huh?

Find a new outpatient clinic to observe.

No need, I've seen all the various outpatient PT I care to see for now.

This was indeed in a specific clinic. Physician-owned "patient mill" of sorts, PT's have 15min/patient. Techs do all the rest with people. The PTA was the only one there with more than 2 years of experience. I didn't say I'd want to work there, but with these circumstances the patients who were passed to the very experienced PTA for the remainder of their care didn't miss anything they would have gotten from the PTs.

 

[PTMattI]

There are many things that PTs are able to do which PTAs cannot...dry needling for example

 

[DPTinFL]

I wonder if a PTA is legally able to perform a high velocity low amplitude manipulation. Is it under their scope of practice? The company that I work for is awesome. We only have PTs and we do the evals and treatments, no PTAs or techs.

 

[Bluecase]

Hvla depend on state practice act but where I live PTAs are not allowed to do manual therapy but most learn in schools I believe which is confusing.

 

[PennyP]

Hvla depend on state practice act but where I live PTAs are not allowed to do manual therapy but most learn in schools I believe which is confusing.

PTAs can do Grade I-III manipulations where I live and work, but it's based on state statutes.

In regards to PTAs, in a fair amount (probably majority) of clinics who do hire PTAs, they do treatments as a PT would except for evaluations and discharge/end of treatment work. Unless he or she has a PT who is a micromanager, the PTA will come up with exercises based on the POC.

 

[CristianoParese]

There was a little voice in my head that kept me from contemplating too much about what you're pondering seminolefish. You've come this far to join a worthwhile profession, requiring a very large investment. You're studying, you're tired, you're turned off by stories and rumor, but YOU'RE NOT THERE YET. Getting there will boost your confidence more than you can imagine. Get there and we'll see what the heading of your next thread will be. Don't give up, you're extremely lucky to be where you are.

 

[DesertPT]

Get there and we'll see what the heading of your next thread will be.

Considering that seminolefish's last post on SDN was in Jan. 2012, I doubt it.

Good post though 😀

 

[SuperKirby]

There are many things that PTs are able to do which PTAs cannot...dry needling for example

I studied at a Dry Needling course and there were 2 PTAs in our class. So apparently they can practice it?