Mayo vs. UCSD

[username5]

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[nontoxicpremed1]

Prestige-wise they are likely viewed as about the same; both top schools but not Harvard/Hopkins status. The UCSD name is particularly strong in the research world. It sounds like UCSD might allow you to perform better in school with your nearby support system, weather, etc so that might be the better option here.

 

[Arsartium]

Congrats on your excellent choices! I'm sure UCSD and Mayo AZ can both catapult your career to whatever you like. My gestalt is that you'd like to go to UCSD but worry about lost opportunities. Don't worry about that (I know... easy for me to type...harder to do.) The only exception might be if you have a strong specialty interest for something that Mayo AZ excels in.

Clarifications on Mayo -
No evidence to suggest any real differences in ability of students to match where they want to given the latest match list from AZ and MN.

Dress code: The only real rule is wearing professional attire when meeting with patients. (M1s will wear professional attire for maybe the first 4 - 5 months before they figure that out). Tbh, this isn't much different from most hospital systems. Of course, you're wearing scrubs for most inpatient services and procedures (e.g. surgery, urology clinic, ENT clinic).

Grades: Mayo hasn't had internal ranking for at least a decade. Been battling this misinformation for a couple years now. Yes, preclinical is true pass/fail. The fine print is that there is a "professionalism" adjective that considers your interactions over your four years in medical school. It has nothing to do with your grades and only affects one line about how "professional" you are. It's something like "X is great/superb professional." Be a kind human and you won't have any problems.

Class size: In my experience class size and social life are not directly correlated. Hopefully, you'll maintain/make friendships with people who aren't in the medical school or hospital. With a certain group size, people usually divide into cliques anyway. I suspect that whether your class is 200 or 50, you'll end up to talking to mostly the same 5-10 people anyway. Of course, that varies depending on your level of extroversion. Surprisingly, 50 people is a great class size. Mayo admissions magic is pretty special. Indeed, Mayo admits people individually and collectively in order to craft a class greater than the sum of its parts.

Weather: I must say I was pleasantly surprised at how comfortable 90 degrees F felt with 0% humidity. That was AZ in November. From what I understand, the summertime is irredeemable.

While I can mostly speak to the MN campus, happy to give what insight I can should you have further questions. Good luck!

P.S. Never be afraid to ask for more money.

 

[supermelon]

Congrats on your excellent choices! I'm sure UCSD and Mayo AZ can both catapult your career to whatever you like. My gestalt is that you'd like to go to UCSD but worry about lost opportunities. Don't worry about that (I know... easy for me to type...harder to do.) The only exception might be if you have a strong specialty interest for something that Mayo AZ excels in.

Clarifications on Mayo -
No evidence to suggest any real differences in ability of students to match where they want to given the latest match list from AZ and MN.

Dress code: The only real rule is wearing professional attire when meeting with patients. (M1s will wear professional attire for maybe the first 4 - 5 months before they figure that out). Tbh, this isn't much different from most hospital systems. Of course, you're wearing scrubs for most inpatient services and procedures (e.g. surgery, urology clinic, ENT clinic).

Grades: Mayo hasn't had internal ranking for at least a decade. Been battling this misinformation for a couple years now. Yes, preclinical is true pass/fail. The fine print is that there is a "professionalism" adjective that considers your interactions over your four years in medical school. It has nothing to do with your grades and only affects one line about how "professional" you are. It's something like "X is great/superb professional." Be a kind human and you won't have any problems.

Class size: In my experience class size and social life are not directly correlated. Hopefully, you'll maintain/make friendships with people who aren't in the medical school or hospital. With a certain group size, people usually divide into cliques anyway. I suspect that whether your class is 200 or 50, you'll end up to talking to mostly the same 5-10 people anyway. Of course, that varies depending on your level of extroversion. Surprisingly, 50 people is a great class size. Mayo admissions magic is pretty special. Indeed, Mayo admits people individually and collectively in order to craft a class greater than the sum of its parts.

Weather: I must say I was pleasantly surprised at how comfortable 90 degrees F felt with 0% humidity. That was AZ in November. From what I understand, the summertime is irredeemable.

While I can mostly speak to the MN campus, happy to give what insight I can should you have further questions. Good luck!

P.S. Never be afraid to ask for more money.

Is it true that medical students at Mayo do not receive white coats?
I am also considering Mayo and was surprised to read that, but wasn't sure if it were true.

 

[Arsartium]

Is it true that medical students at Mayo do not receive white coats?
I am also considering Mayo and was surprised to read that, but wasn't sure if it were true.

Yes. The idea is that the white coat can serve as an artificial barrier separating provider and patient. As an aside, at other institutions, the white coat can denote your level of training (short white coat for medical student, longer for residents, and longer still for consultants). There is no such distinction at Mayo. You will rarely see a white coat in clinic (unless a procedural clinic). That said, white coats (or some other covering) should be worn in public/patient care areas if you're in scrubs. For inpatient care, you can grab a non-descript white coat like everyone else from the locker room.

Several years ago, Mayo actually conducted a study on patient preference with regard to professional attire vs. white coats. No clear preference emerged. Perhaps that could only be true in the Midwest though.

Don't worry. You'll still have an official ceremony as you start your medical school career. It just won't be a "white coat" ceremony. You've receive a swanky new stethoscope, a framed modern version of the Hippocratic oath, and bag of variable goodies.

 

[FluffyCat1212]

Congrats on your excellent choices! I'm sure UCSD and Mayo AZ can both catapult your career to whatever you like. My gestalt is that you'd like to go to UCSD but worry about lost opportunities. Don't worry about that (I know... easy for me to type...harder to do.) The only exception might be if you have a strong specialty interest for something that Mayo AZ excels in.

Clarifications on Mayo -
No evidence to suggest any real differences in ability of students to match where they want to given the latest match list from AZ and MN.

Dress code: The only real rule is wearing professional attire when meeting with patients. (M1s will wear professional attire for maybe the first 4 - 5 months before they figure that out). Tbh, this isn't much different from most hospital systems. Of course, you're wearing scrubs for most inpatient services and procedures (e.g. surgery, urology clinic, ENT clinic).

Grades: Mayo hasn't had internal ranking for at least a decade. Been battling this misinformation for a couple years now. Yes, preclinical is true pass/fail. The fine print is that there is a "professionalism" adjective that considers your interactions over your four years in medical school. It has nothing to do with your grades and only affects one line about how "professional" you are. It's something like "X is great/superb professional." Be a kind human and you won't have any problems.

Class size: In my experience class size and social life are not directly correlated. Hopefully, you'll maintain/make friendships with people who aren't in the medical school or hospital. With a certain group size, people usually divide into cliques anyway. I suspect that whether your class is 200 or 50, you'll end up to talking to mostly the same 5-10 people anyway. Of course, that varies depending on your level of extroversion. Surprisingly, 50 people is a great class size. Mayo admissions magic is pretty special. Indeed, Mayo admits people individually and collectively in order to craft a class greater than the sum of its parts.

Weather: I must say I was pleasantly surprised at how comfortable 90 degrees F felt with 0% humidity. That was AZ in November. From what I understand, the summertime is irredeemable.

While I can mostly speak to the MN campus, happy to give what insight I can should you have further questions. Good luck!

P.S. Never be afraid to ask for more money.

Will second the "no internal rankings" thing. Brought this up to one of our deans a little while ago, who met with me and was very adamant that they've since gotten rid of it (even the professionalism part, which apparently caused quite a stir when people learned about it).

Also second the dress code part 🙂 It took me a few months to realize that literally nobody cared what I wore to lecture. You'd be expected to dress nicely to see patients at any med school, so that's not really a Mayo thing. The only dress code thing specific to Mayo is that we do not wear white coats! Honestly, I'm not mad because it's one fewer piece of laundry that I have to do!

 

[username5]

Will second the "no internal rankings" thing. Brought this up to one of our deans a little while ago, who met with me and was very adamant that they've since gotten rid of it (even the professionalism part, which apparently caused quite a stir when people learned about it).

Also second the dress code part 🙂 It took me a few months to realize that literally nobody cared what I wore to lecture. You'd be expected to dress nicely to see patients at any med school, so that's not really a Mayo thing. The only dress code thing specific to Mayo is that we do not wear white coats! Honestly, I'm not mad because it's one fewer piece of laundry that I have to do!

Thank you both for clarifying the grading policy! That makes it seem way less stressful. I’m not sure what year you’re in, but do you feel like clinical grading is pretty fair?

 

[Dwan]

Initially, I was 100% committed to Mayo, but due to some changes in my family's situation, I am reconsidering UCSD to be closer to home. I would love thoughts/opinions, especially from current students at either of these schools.

Mayo (AZ)
Pros

• Prestige/name recognition (Does Mayo AZ carry the same weight as Mayo MN? How is it viewed relative to UCSD by residency programs?)
• Selectives/flexibility in curriculum
• Match list (It seems like Mayo students match into more prestigious residencies. Not sure what I want to do yet, but considering some more competitive specialties and not sure if going to Mayo would give me a leg up over UCSD).
• Small class size and high faculty to student ratio
• Partial scholarship, but price is still comparable to UCSD

Cons

• Pre-clinical not truly pass/fail (From what I've heard, grades from the preclinical years are factored into rankings. Can any current Mayo students discuss this? Seems like it would add a lot of stress.)
• Weather (I really hate being hot and sweaty all the time.)
• Farther from family/support
• Dress code

UCSD
Pros

• Prior ties to UCSD/UCSD Health and ability to jump into research from day one
• Truly pass/fail preclinical with no internal ranking
• On-campus housing and larger class size = better social life
• Part of a larger university with more opportunities/amenities
• Closer to family/support in Southern California
• Dedicated breaks and summer vacation before M2 to do optional research
• Weather

Cons

• Less prestigious/impact on getting into a competitive residency, especially with pass/fail STEP 1?
• Always wondering "What if I went to Mayo?"
• Slightly more expensive
• Rumors of "malignancy"/current students expressing dissatisfaction with UCSD

Summary: Overall, I think I may have a higher day-to-day quality of life at UCSD because it seems a bit more relaxed and is closer to family, but I may have more opportunities and better odds of matching into a competitive residency at Mayo. I would appreciate your thoughts, thanks!

I don't think UCSD loses in prestige to Mayo AZ - for medical schools, they are about equivalent. However, the main weakness of Mayo-AZ is that their residency programs aren't anywhere on the same level as UCSD. (UCSD's are much stronger) Their match list is still solid, much better than expected compared to their residency programs (for example Mayo AZ's IM fellowship match is not very strong), likely in part from the strong student class, but this is something worth considering if you'd rather be in San Diego.

 

[FluffyCat1212]

Thank you both for clarifying the grading policy! That makes it seem way less stressful. I’m not sure what year you’re in, but do you feel like clinical grading is pretty fair?

Also, I think that the no white coat thing is great since the short white coats look a little silly to me. I do wonder about not having pockets large enough for my phone or a pen during clinicals, though, since very little womens clothing accommodates that. 😅😂

I wish I could speak to that, but I'm just wrapping up M1! 🙂 I've heard that they've recently changed how they approach grading clerkships (for the better), but I couldn't tell you exactly how. Gonna defer to my other MCASOM colleagues on that one.

 

[Arsartium]

Thank you both for clarifying the grading policy! That makes it seem way less stressful. I’m not sure what year you’re in, but do you feel like clinical grading is pretty fair?

Also, I think that the no white coat thing is great since the short white coats look a little silly to me. I do wonder about not having pockets large enough for my phone or a pen during clinicals, though, since very little womens clothing accommodates that. 😅😂

Clinical Grading: That's a tough question. Most people are only ever going to attend medical school at one place. Frankly, you can't really compare. Clerkships have a subjective component (evaluations) and an objective component (shelf exams, presentation, etc). As @FluffyCat1212 alluded to, there was a recent change (~8 months ago) in grading where the shelf exam - a nationally standardized exam specific to each clerkship - comprises no more than 25% of the final grade and there can't be a "cutoff" (i.e. certain percentile) on the shelf for Honors. If you like standardized tests, then you might prefer higher weight on shelf exams. If you're a likeable social butterfly, then you might feel like evaluations give you an advantage. Most clerkship directors are clear about grading criteria. I could tell you more specifics but it won't be useful until you're in the thick of clerkships. No matter what school you attend, make sure to clarify expectations with each resident/fellow and attending on your service. A good rule of thumb is to model your behavior after the person on the next "rung" up. That is usually the intern or PGY-2. After your first clerkship, you'll know what clinical excellence looks like. You should seldom be surprised by your grade.

P.S. Not having pockets is not as big a deal as you think in outpatient clinic. Many female consultants just hold a pen and pad if they're writing, put them down to do a physical exam, and pick it back up as they leave to return to the office. Some wear suit jackets with real pockets. Pockets are essential with inpatient (esp. surgical service) -- that's when you're wearing a white coat (also some neurologists and anesthesiologists like to have a small over the shoulder bag).

 

[solarflare1230]

Where did you end up choosing? I’m facing a similar problem

 

[misanthropeGalore]

+1 I'm also facing a similar problem, am probably going to end up choosing Baylor over Mayo AZ just cause support system nearby. Please lmk what you ended up going with