MCAT before prereqs.

[sublyminal]

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Before I get bashed for asking such an arrogant/ignorant question, please bare with me and read the post in its entirety... My intrigue has less to do with time, and more to do with timing/efficiency. Also, as a disclaimer, though this is my first "official" post, I have been "lurking" for quite some time.

I am a 34-year old non-traditional career-changing pre-med student. I have a BA in MCJ, an MBA, and a variety of work experiences. I tend to prefer advice from those I want to "be like", rather than those who are just nay-sayers, so if you haven't any legitimate experience either way (or 1st hand knowledge of, please refrain from bashing me). Kinda like the fat dude in the gym that gives advice on how to get a six-pack... I don't need that type of advice...

Anyways, now that I look rude and repulsive, let me try to fix my image: Here's why I ask/what I'm looking at doing: Again, I have a BA in MCJ and an MBA. I took one semester each of chemistry/physics/biology back in 2004. I'm a career changer (from firefighter) and will start the pre-med program at a highly respected program in the summer of 2014. My previous prereq. work is so old that it will not count, and so I will be retaking those courses as part of this program. By the end of Fall 2014 I will have taken 2 semesters of general chemistry (two summer sessions), and 1 semester each of physics/bio/and o-chem. In other words, come MCAT time January 2015, the only prereqs I will not have completed are second semester bio/physics/o-chem. I have the Berkeley review material, and am going to purchase all FL's from AMCAS for preparation between now and the January 2015 test date. I'm aiming for a study program similar to Sn2ed's or Spinach's.

I am focused on taking the January 2015 MCAT, because this is the last version of the current MCAT that will be offered (before the revision). If I am not comfortable at that time (Jan 2015), I will suck it up and begin adding biochem/social studies/psychology to my studies for a later version. With that said, however, I would prefer to get my MCAT score in prior to the transition for the following reasons: 1) I'm old, 2) the current MCAT has an established metric system for med. school admissions staff (i.e., they know how to evaluate a current version MCAT score), and 3) the new version will be 2 hours longer and involves more material; better said, I'd like to take an "easier" version if possible...

Finally, I can see your confusion as to why I don't just start now (Spring 2014) and get all prereqs. done prior to the MCAT. Simply put, the program I'm in does not offer the courses I need (in Spring 2014) to start the ball rolling now, and they also will not approve a committee letter if my courses were not taken at their University.

Thoughts, advice...inspiration...."don't do it!"...? Thanks for looking...

 

[icedragon]

At least for me, a lot of the study material feels like it's aimed at refreshing one's memories rather than teaching it to someone who has never seen it before. That being said, I advocate taking the courses before diving into the test, because you would probably spend the same amount if not more of your time learning the material rather than learning how to take the test itself. Best of luck with your decision, it is definitely possible to self study, but it's not something I would recommend.

 

[optopia]

Hey, I am also a non-trad fellow career changer. I started college in 2003, and that was the last time I took any science courses. I had 2 semesters of Bio, 2 of Gen Chem, 1 of Orgo, and 0 Physics. I self-studied for the MCAT this past summer (10 years after taking any science courses, and with 0 physics), and got a 38 (14P,11V,13B). Like you, I wanted to get the MCAT done well before the 2015 switchover, and also treated it as a litmus test to see if I "still had it in me" to study science.

I followed Sn2ed's 3 month plan using BR, although I cut it short after 10 weeks and rescheduled an earlier MCAT since the last month of the plan is mostly fluff (doing practice MCAT's 3 days apart... Zzzzzzz). If I didn't understand something, I googled it. Mind you, I am the kind of person who will stare at something for 2 hours until I understand it. If you're willing to do what it takes (being able to study full-time helps), if you're smart and a good self-learner, you will have no problem at all. Just be patient with yourself and don't give up on any concept until you understand it. Stare at the page for minutes at a time if necessary.

 

[sublyminal]

Hey, I am also a non-trad fellow career changer. I started college in 2003, and that was the last time I took any science courses. I had 2 semesters of Bio, 2 of Gen Chem, 1 of Orgo, and 0 Physics. I self-studied for the MCAT this past summer (10 years after taking any science courses, and with 0 physics), and got a 38 (14P,11V,13B). Like you, I wanted to get the MCAT done well before the 2015 switchover, and also treated it as a litmus test to see if I "still had it in me" to study science.

I followed Sn2ed's 3 month plan using BR, although I cut it short after 10 weeks and rescheduled an earlier MCAT since the last month of the plan is mostly fluff (doing practice MCAT's 3 days apart... Zzzzzzz). If I didn't understand something, I googled it. Mind you, I am the kind of person who will stare at something for 2 hours until I understand it. If you're willing to do what it takes (being able to study full-time helps), if you're smart and a good self-learner, you will have no problem at all. Just be patient with yourself and don't give up on any concept until you understand it. Stare at the page for minutes at a time if necessary.

Impressive score. Did BR prep you adequately in and of itself for the Physics related problems? I keep reading that O. chem (2nd semester) isn't a huge deal, but physics IS.

 

[optopia]

Impressive score. Did BR prep you adequately in and of itself for the Physics related problems? I keep reading that O. chem (2nd semester) isn't a huge deal, but physics IS.

O Chem was fine, but I struggled somewhat with the carbonyl reactions chapter (first chapter of BR OChem 2). Having never taken that in a class, everything was new. The key was to take good notes, and review them 3-4 times until I saw the the common themes to all carbonyl reactions. The MCAT doesn't heavily emphasize OChem (at least mine didn't), and BR is definitely slightly overkill for the OChem that you're going to see. I was glad to be overprepared tho.

Physics wasn't too bad. I have a very strong math background, so simple equations and formulas (which is the first half of physics) was easy. The part I struggled with was circuits and optics. Those were new, and I had to spend the time memorizing the 5 different cases of lenses/focal points. Also, learning the rules of RC circuits took a bit of time. But nothing that wasn't manageable with extra time and practice. I used only BR and the Hyperphysics website. Circuits you need to know cold (how do resistors and capacitors add in series and parallel). Optics, when they do ask questions on the MCAT, they tend to include the thin lens equation with the question, so you can plug and chug as long as you know how to use the equation. Memorizing the 5 different cases helps, so you quickly know whether an image is upright, inverted, real or virtual. UV IR is a great mnemonic that BR will teach you.

The fact that I can still recall this stuff 3 months after my MCAT is testament to how well I learned it from BR. I think it's more than adequate. Just make sure to give yourself enough time. If you do the Sn2ed, allow yourself the 3 months, work hard, and if you can, shave off a few weeks at the end depending on how well you progress.

I got a 35 on my first practice test (AAMC 3), then a 38, then a 37, then another 38. So I knew I was well prepared going in. You do your first practice tests 2 months into Sn2ed's schedule.

 

[michigan1212]

As another nontrad, I suggest not taking the MCAT before the classes. Test prep is geared towards review rather than teaching from scratch.

 

[surfdoc29]

I have a very similar background to you, started college in 2003 and am changing careers from a firefighter, so I thought you might benefit from my story. I took the MCAT without 2nd semester physics or o chem, and ended up doing very well (37, 11/13/13).

I used mostly BR materials which were great for gen chem and physics. However I would recommend using Princeton review for bio instead, as BR goes into more bio depth than I think you really need. I also used Kahn Academy videos to fill the gaps in my physics knowledge, which were incredibly helpful.

However, despite knowing gen chem extremely well, the gen chem/physics section was my lowest subscore, and I believe this was due to not knowing 2nd semester physics very well, as my test had a ton of optics and electromagnetism on it, which was bad luck. Now that I've taken 2nd semester physics, I believe I could have done much better on that section if I had taken the MCAT after taking the class.

Also, I had taken a full year of anatomy and physiology, as well as cell biology, which were all super helpful for the bio section. 2nd semester o chem is not a high yield topic, and if you understand o chem 1 well, you can teach yourself the o chem 2 material you need for the MCAT fairly easily.

So, to sum up, its definitely possible to do well on the MCAT without all of the pre reqs. take stock of how well you are able to teach yourself material, and if you think you can do it well, then go for it! My other piece of advice is to do all your content review first, then do ALL of the AAMC practice tests. If you're not scoring where you want on the practice tests, don't take the actual thing.

Hope this helps! Feel free to ask me any questions you might have!

 

[sublyminal]

I have a very similar background to you, started college in 2003 and am changing careers from a firefighter, so I thought you might benefit from my story. I took the MCAT without 2nd semester physics or o chem, and ended up doing very well (37, 11/13/13).

I used mostly BR materials which were great for gen chem and physics. However I would recommend using Princeton review for bio instead, as BR goes into more bio depth than I think you really need. I also used Kahn Academy videos to fill the gaps in my physics knowledge, which were incredibly helpful.

However, despite knowing gen chem extremely well, the gen chem/physics section was my lowest subscore, and I believe this was due to not knowing 2nd semester physics very well, as my test had a ton of optics and electromagnetism on it, which was bad luck. Now that I've taken 2nd semester physics, I believe I could have done much better on that section if I had taken the MCAT after taking the class.

Also, I had taken a full year of anatomy and physiology, as well as cell biology, which were all super helpful for the bio section. 2nd semester o chem is not a high yield topic, and if you understand o chem 1 well, you can teach yourself the o chem 2 material you need for the MCAT fairly easily.

So, to sum up, its definitely possible to do well on the MCAT without all of the pre reqs. take stock of how well you are able to teach yourself material, and if you think you can do it well, then go for it! My other piece of advice is to do all your content review first, then do ALL of the AAMC practice tests. If you're not scoring where you want on the practice tests, don't take the actual thing.

Hope this helps! Feel free to ask me any questions you might have!

Let me ask you this if I may:

Next spring (2014) I have the opportunity to take a semester of A & P along with the Algebra & Trig I'm currently enrolled in. If I choose to go forward with preparation for taking the MCAT as stated in the original post (Jan 2015 test date), the plan is/was to NOT take the A & P course. This so that I could teach myself the two years of o.chem/physics/bio during my "free" time (of the Spring 2014 semester), rather than having to ensure I study enough to get an "A" in A & P. The dilemma is that though I will have one semester of each (bio/physics/o.chem) prior to the test date, I will only have ~ 3-4 weeks (over Christmas break 2014) to do Sn2ed's schedule (I'm looking at doing "2-a-days" on MWF to condense the 90-day plan and make it work at that time). This means I cannot effectively "self-learn" the 2nd semester topics after "officially" taking the 1st semester versions, so I'll be self-learning them this spring (2014) instead, then using the "official" courses (1st semester versions) as a review of sorts.

In other words, I plan on teaching myself two years of o.chem/physics/biology this coming spring (2014), learning (officially) general chemistry in my post-bacc pre-med progam over the summer (2014), and then taking the "official" 1st semester versions of o.chem/physics/biology in the fall (2014). It is my opinion (flawed or not?) that I should know the 1st semester versions prior to the 2nd semester versions (just in case you're wondering why I plan on self-learning the entire two years, as opposed to just the 2nd semester versions that I will not have exposure to come MCAT).

With that said, do you think I should skip the A&P opportunity this spring (2014), or squeeze it in with the self-study of the other three topics?

Also, you mentioned Khan... Yes, great source. I'm actually 1/3 of the way through the MCAT topics. I plan on finishing by the end of this semester, then going through the bio/physics/chem (on Khan) before starting BR next spring. I am also open to any other potential sources, such as your PR advice, and the physics resource Octopia mentioned above....

On another note, what happened with the job? Career choice dilemma, injury, other??? PM me...

 

[surfdoc29]

Let me ask you this if I may:

Next spring (2014) I have the opportunity to take a semester of A & P along with the Algebra & Trig I'm currently enrolled in. If I choose to go forward with preparation for taking the MCAT as stated in the original post (Jan 2015 test date), the plan is/was to NOT take the A & P course. This so that I could teach myself the two years of o.chem/physics/bio during my "free" time (of the Spring 2014 semester), rather than having to ensure I study enough to get an "A" in A & P. The dilemma is that though I will have one semester of each (bio/physics/o.chem) prior to the test date, I will only have ~ 3-4 weeks (over Christmas break 2014) to do Sn2ed's schedule (I'm looking at doing "2-a-days" on MWF to condense the 90-day plan and make it work at that time). This means I cannot effectively "self-learn" the 2nd semester topics after "officially" taking the 1st semester versions, so I'll be self-learning them this spring (2014) instead, then using the "official" courses (1st semester versions) as a review of sorts.

In other words, I plan on teaching myself two years of o.chem/physics/biology this coming spring (2014), learning (officially) general chemistry in my post-bacc pre-med progam over the summer (2014), and then taking the "official" 1st semester versions of o.chem/physics/biology in the fall (2014). It is my opinion (flawed or not?) that I should know the 1st semester versions prior to the 2nd semester versions (just in case you're wondering why I plan on self-learning the entire two years, as opposed to just the 2nd semester versions that I will not have exposure to come MCAT).

With that said, do you think I should skip the A&P opportunity this spring (2014), or squeeze it in with the self-study of the other three topics?

Also, you mentioned Khan... Yes, great source. I'm actually 1/3 of the way through the MCAT topics. I plan on finishing by the end of this semester, then going through the bio/physics/chem (on Khan) before starting BR next spring. I am also open to any other potential sources, such as your PR advice, and the physics resource Octopia mentioned above....

On another note, what happened with the job? Career choice dilemma, injury, other??? PM me...

That is trying to fit a lot in to a short time period. I did all my MCAT studying in about 6 weeks, 3 weeks of content review where I taught myself the 2nd semester stuff I needed to learn, and 3 weeks of practice tests interspersed with content review of weak areas.

The A&P was definitely helpful for the bio section but I wouldn't say it's entirely necessary. You can learn everything you need without it, but it was helpful. Whether or not you take it depends on how much work it's gonna be and how much time you have.

In addition to PR, ExamKrackers bio was very simple and lays out pretty much exactly what you need to know.

PMed you about career stuff.

 

[stlrams22]

Let me ask you this if I may:

Next spring (2014) I have the opportunity to take a semester of A & P along with the Algebra & Trig I'm currently enrolled in. If I choose to go forward with preparation for taking the MCAT as stated in the original post (Jan 2015 test date), the plan is/was to NOT take the A & P course. This so that I could teach myself the two years of o.chem/physics/bio during my "free" time (of the Spring 2014 semester), rather than having to ensure I study enough to get an "A" in A & P. The dilemma is that though I will have one semester of each (bio/physics/o.chem) prior to the test date, I will only have ~ 3-4 weeks (over Christmas break 2014) to do Sn2ed's schedule (I'm looking at doing "2-a-days" on MWF to condense the 90-day plan and make it work at that time). This means I cannot effectively "self-learn" the 2nd semester topics after "officially" taking the 1st semester versions, so I'll be self-learning them this spring (2014) instead, then using the "official" courses (1st semester versions) as a review of sorts.

In other words, I plan on teaching myself two years of o.chem/physics/biology this coming spring (2014), learning (officially) general chemistry in my post-bacc pre-med progam over the summer (2014), and then taking the "official" 1st semester versions of o.chem/physics/biology in the fall (2014). It is my opinion (flawed or not?) that I should know the 1st semester versions prior to the 2nd semester versions (just in case you're wondering why I plan on self-learning the entire two years, as opposed to just the 2nd semester versions that I will not have exposure to come MCAT).

With that said, do you think I should skip the A&P opportunity this spring (2014), or squeeze it in with the self-study of the other three topics?

Also, you mentioned Khan... Yes, great source. I'm actually 1/3 of the way through the MCAT topics. I plan on finishing by the end of this semester, then going through the bio/physics/chem (on Khan) before starting BR next spring. I am also open to any other potential sources, such as your PR advice, and the physics resource Octopia mentioned above....

On another note, what happened with the job? Career choice dilemma, injury, other??? PM me...

It seems crazy to take the MCAT before many of these classes and you will do more work. I suggest just holding off until with the studying and start studying a few months before. The MCAT is already a long enough process (3 months studying, taking the test, waiting a month for scores), don't turn it into a year long process. Good luck in whatever you decide, above all just make sure you are getting the practice test scores you want before you test.

 

[sublyminal]

It seems crazy to take the MCAT before many of these classes and you will do more work. I suggest just holding off until with the studying and start studying a few months before. The MCAT is already a long enough process (3 months studying, taking the test, waiting a month for scores), don't turn it into a year long process. Good luck in whatever you decide, above all just make sure you are getting the practice test scores you want before you test.

I hear you, and I agree... The only issue I'm having (as laid out in the OP) is that I really (REALLY) want to get my MCAT done before the revision. Trust me, If I was stuck with the 2015 version regardless, I wouldn't even consider slaying this beast w/o the prereqs already "officially" completed. Heck, I'd probably add in A & P, biochem, micro, and possibly calculus if not for the scheduling dilemma.

I think your statement about getting the desired practice scores before committing is an extremely valid point. Given the replies from the guys before you, I'm starting to think that my aspirations might not be so crazy after all, lol....

 

[stlrams22]

I hear you, and I agree... The only issue I'm having (as laid out in the OP) is that I really (REALLY) want to get my MCAT done before the revision. Trust me, If I was stuck with the 2015 version regardless, I wouldn't even consider slaying this beast w/o the prereqs already "officially" completed. Heck, I'd probably add in A & P, biochem, micro, and possibly calculus if not for the scheduling dilemma.

I think your statement about getting the desired practice scores before committing is an extremely valid point. Given the replies from the guys before you, I'm starting to think that my aspirations might not be so crazy after all, lol....

I absolutely agree with you 100% about taking the test before the revisions. Maybe taking a prep course with your studying would help since you may need more help with the topics necessary to prepare efficiently. The structure and organization of the prep course I took dramatically helped increase my score and I didn't study near as much for my retake. I found that a test book doesn't help emphasize the most important topics near as good as a class.

 

[sublyminal]

I absolutely agree with you 100% about taking the test before the revisions. Maybe taking a prep course with your studying would help since you may need more help with the topics necessary to prepare efficiently. The structure and organization of the prep course I took dramatically helped increase my score and I didn't study near as much for my retake. I found that a test book doesn't help emphasize the most important topics near as good as a class.

Who did you do your prep course with? And do you think I would benefit from a similar course w/o previous knowledge of the topics?

 

[stlrams22]

Who did you do your prep course with? And do you think I would benefit from a similar course w/o previous knowledge of the topics?

I don't work for them and don't want to advertise, but I used a two month summer princeton review course. It would be a lot of material for two months if you haven't had it before, but they have 3 month courses during the spring semester to give you more time. If you're going to study anyway, having the guidance of a course would help. My suggestion would be to read over the chapter before each class, pay attention during class, and do all the assigned work after class (they have more than enough practice questions all in MCAT form). It also takes the stress of planning what to study away because they have everything laid out, just keep up with the material and at the end of the class you should be ready. My biggest problem was I studied many topics to intensely and didn't study many enough. The course is good at developing an understanding of the topics deep enough to do well, but not wasting your time with details that aren't important. By the time you're finished, you will have seen about every type of problem they could ask you on test day.

 

[stlrams22]

I also want to add the TPR course includes all the study books necessary and practice problems. It also includes the AAMC assessment and all the practice tests. Some people say they TPR books are too detailed, they are definitely not as concise as some, but for you they may be perfect because they do a good job at illustrating. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what books to order, but my opinion from the whole process is how you study is way more important than what books you're using.

 

[Blueprint MCAT Tutor]

Anecdotes are not data.

Okay, now that that's out of the way, let me offer some anecdotes and one piece of advice.

As you well know, the MCAT is not a science test. It's a critical thinking test that just happens to have science. As such there can be (and often are) huge mismatches between a person's science grades / science "smarts" and their ability to do well on the MCAT. Three quick anecdotes to illustrate that point:

I just got off the phone yesterday with a woman who's considering taking the MCAT and considering tutoring with my company. This woman is in her 40's and hasn't had a science class in two decades. She's a working professional in a very intellectually challenging line of work, but she wants to make a life change. She had taken AAMC MCAT #3 just to see what the MCAT was like, and got a 26, even after being away from science content for decades. She was able to do so well since she had such good critical reading skills.

When I first took the MCAT (back in the dark ages when it was 8 hrs long, on paper, and you had to ride a dinosaur to the testing location), I had just failed organic chem. That's not a euphemism. Nor an exaggeration. My test average in organic was like a 50. And yet I got a 12 in the BioSci, and this was back when Orgo was like 40% of that section. My content was terrible, but I was a great reader (I was majoring in philosophy).

Finally, one of my best friends from high school was one of the smartest people I've ever met. She was valedictorian in high school, salutatorian in college. Ivy league. 4.0 GPA double-majoring in physics and biochemistry. And she just could not, under any circumstances, do better than a 24ish on the MCAT. Nothing she did helped. It certainly wasn't science content that was the issue. She ended up going on to get a PhD in biology, so she really had a "knack" for science content, but just could not get the MCAT no matter what she did. At the time, it crushed her, but eventually she found another path to happiness in life.

So really what you need to do right away is get a sense of how well your own native critical reading skills align with how the MCAT test makers think. You should sit down and take AAMC MCAT#3 under test-like conditions. Now. Today. Your score, especially your Verbal score, will give you a very clear sense as to whether you can try something as ambitious as you're trying.

Good luck! 🙂

 

[sublyminal]

I also want to add the TPR course includes all the study books necessary and practice problems. It also includes the AAMC assessment and all the practice tests. Some people say they TPR books are too detailed, they are definitely not as concise as some, but for you they may be perfect because they do a good job at illustrating. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what books to order, but my opinion from the whole process is how you study is way more important than what books you're using.

I don't work for them and don't want to advertise, but I used a two month summer princeton review course. It would be a lot of material for two months if you haven't had it before, but they have 3 month courses during the spring semester to give you more time. If you're going to study anyway, having the guidance of a course would help. My suggestion would be to read over the chapter before each class, pay attention during class, and do all the assigned work after class (they have more than enough practice questions all in MCAT form). It also takes the stress of planning what to study away because they have everything laid out, just keep up with the material and at the end of the class you should be ready. My biggest problem was I studied many topics to intensely and didn't study many enough. The course is good at developing an understanding of the topics deep enough to do well, but not wasting your time with details that aren't important. By the time you're finished, you will have seen about every type of problem they could ask you on test day.

Did you do the online version? There are no physical face-to-face courses available in my area. I've looked into doing this, but after I ran it by my adviser (she said she's never heard of anyone doing it this way), I backed off a little.

 

[sublyminal]

Anecdotes are not data.

Okay, now that that's out of the way, let me offer some anecdotes and one piece of advice.

As you well know, the MCAT is not a science test. It's a critical thinking test that just happens to have science. As such there can be (and often are) huge mismatches between a person's science grades / science "smarts" and their ability to do well on the MCAT. Three quick anecdotes to illustrate that point:

I just got off the phone yesterday with a woman who's considering taking the MCAT and considering tutoring with my company. This woman is in her 40's and hasn't had a science class in two decades. She's a working professional in a very intellectually challenging line of work, but she wants to make a life change. She had taken AAMC MCAT #3 just to see what the MCAT was like, and got a 26, even after being away from science content for decades. She was able to do so well since she had such good critical reading skills.

When I first took the MCAT (back in the dark ages when it was 8 hrs long, on paper, and you had to ride a dinosaur to the testing location), I had just failed organic chem. That's not a euphemism. Nor an exaggeration. My test average in organic was like a 50. And yet I got a 12 in the BioSci, and this was back when Orgo was like 40% of that section. My content was terrible, but I was a great reader (I was majoring in philosophy).

Finally, one of my best friends from high school was one of the smartest people I've ever met. She was valedictorian in high school, salutatorian in college. Ivy league. 4.0 GPA double-majoring in physics and biochemistry. And she just could not, under any circumstances, do better than a 24ish on the MCAT. Nothing she did helped. It certainly wasn't science content that was the issue. She ended up going on to get a PhD in biology, so she really had a "knack" for science content, but just could not get the MCAT no matter what she did. At the time, it crushed her, but eventually she found another path to happiness in life.

So really what you need to do right away is get a sense of how well your own native critical reading skills align with how the MCAT test makers think. You should sit down and take AAMC MCAT#3 under test-like conditions. Now. Today. Your score, especially your Verbal score, will give you a very clear sense as to whether you can try something as ambitious as you're trying.

Good luck! 🙂

Hmmm.... Interesting post. I tend to think I'm a pretty analytical guy. For example: I hammered out a 99 on the ASVAB (not a hard test by any means), a 25/25 on an Army "intelligence" test, and I typically score in the top 5% of others (EMT national registry, FBI, Fire department, Police Department, etc.).

With that said, the first thing that came to mind when reading your post was: Regardless of how analytical/intellectual one may be, if they don't know the "language" of the test, then how can they expect to fare well? I am under the impression that the MCAT's language is largely a dialect of biology, chemistry, and physics...?

 

[Blueprint MCAT Tutor]

if they don't know the "language" of the test, then how can they expect to fare well?

Redefine "fare well" for your circumstances.

If you took the test tomorrow and got 12+ in the VR, then your science scores would be nigh-irrelevant. You'd have such a good knack for the MCAT that you could easily get yourself up to speed in short order.

If you got 9-11 in VR and, say, 7+ in the sciences (so a score that would be poor or mediocre on the real thing), you'd still be in really good shape to do what you're trying to do.

If you get 6-8 in the VR you'll need to start with unexpectedly good sciences (8-9+) to make your schedule a good bet.

If you get <5 in the VR you'll need shockingly good starting science scores to make a rush job a smart choice.

Just put your performance into context (e.g. getting a 5 in Phys Sci is much less worrying than getting a 5 in VR) to evaluate your situation.

 

[jayoh]

I think that a lot of whether or not you can do well on the MCAT without having all the pre-reqs depends entirely on you (are you going to study hard for 3 months straight? are you a math wizard? do you earn quickly? etc). There are a lot of people who have done it, and a lot have done well but a lot have done poorly. I think it would be impossible to gauge whether or not you should do it from others' experiences. I guess I feel like the best way to find out is to go for it. You'll be taking practice tests a lot that will give you a strong indication of whether or not you are where you want to be score-wise, so you'll know before the test what you'll likely score.

I was in a very similar situation, but it wasn't about the 2015 MCAT. My wife and I found out we were having a baby, so suddenly applying a year sooner became much more appealing, so I decided to take a crack at the MCAT without all the pre-reqs. I had only taken (very old- 7 years prior) bio 1, very old gen chem 1 and 2, and fairly recent physics 1. No bio II, no anatomy, no upper level bio/chem, no organic chem, no physics II. I did have a lot of recent upper level math. When I took the AAMC practice 3 I scored 6/11/7 or something. I studied using examkrackers, and devoted a pretty solid amount of time to it, but it was not 3 months full time. Maybe 3 months part time, and 2 weeks at the end full time. I was scoring balanced 30-34's before the real thing, then on the real thing I got a 30 (10/11/9). I was kind of happy for doing ok, but mostly disappointed because I felt like I could have done a lot better. I've since taken all the prereqs and a lot of upper level chem, and I feel like I would do WAY better if I were to retake it. But I guess if I could do it all over again I would have done the same thing, because I got a good enough score to get accepted this cycle.

I think anyone would would agree that you will most likely get a better score having the full pre-reqs versus not having taken them and trying to self-teach. I don't think it's realistic to expect to do just as well as if you had taken them. So I guess my advice would be to decide if you want to go for it, and shoot for a "good enough" score, then it can pay off. Just don't get down on yourself if you don't do really well, and understand that 99% of the people who do well on the MCAT aren't trying to self-teach the topics.

 

[optopia]

There's a lot of varying opinions on whether it's possible to take the MCAT before pre-reqs are done, but it really comes down to a few factors: how good are you at critical thinking, how good you are at learning new material quickly, and how much time you can devote to it. It's absolutely doable and has been done before with very good results.

Honestly, it seems like many people on SDN have suffered a lot going through the med school process, and they're a bit sadistic. They want everyone else to suffer through organic chemistry the same way they did, and it would bother them to no end if someone skipped organic chem class, got a 14 on the BS section and made it into med school.

There are no hard and fast rules here. Same goes for which prep company to use. Personally, I'm a very good at self-study and not so good at paying attention in class, so I opted to learn organic chemistry at my kitchen table. I think any of the major prep companies' books would have done just fine, although I'm partial to Berkeley Review because of the sheer number of passage-type questions that were harder than anything that showed up on the real MCAT, and I got so much butt-kicking while studying that the real thing was a cakewalk in comparison.

No matter what you decide to do, make a plan and stick to it. Sn2ed's schedule has proven its worth time and time again for self-studying. OTOH, Kaplan claims more practicing doctors prepped with them than any other company. I really think you just gotta know your own learning style.

 

[sublyminal]

There's a lot of varying opinions on whether it's possible to take the MCAT before pre-reqs are done, but it really comes down to a few factors: how good are you at critical thinking, how good you are at learning new material quickly, and how much time you can devote to it. It's absolutely doable and has been done before with very good results.

Honestly, it seems like many people on SDN have suffered a lot going through the med school process, and they're a bit sadistic. They want everyone else to suffer through organic chemistry the same way they did, and it would bother them to no end if someone skipped organic chem class, got a 14 on the BS section and made it into med school.

There are no hard and fast rules here. Same goes for which prep company to use. Personally, I'm a very good at self-study and not so good at paying attention in class, so I opted to learn organic chemistry at my kitchen table. I think any of the major prep companies' books would have done just fine, although I'm partial to Berkeley Review because of the sheer number of passage-type questions that were harder than anything that showed up on the real MCAT, and I got so much butt-kicking while studying that the real thing was a cakewalk in comparison.

No matter what you decide to do, make a plan and stick to it. Sn2ed's schedule has proven its worth time and time again for self-studying. OTOH, Kaplan claims more practicing doctors prepped with them than any other company. I really think you just gotta know your own learning style.

I'm reading everyone's posts and gaining some extremely valuable insight; well, maybe motivation/inspiration would be more descriptive. I have faith in my abilities, and believe that if you guys can do it, then so can I. It has been a very long time though (since I was exposed to basic sciences and challenging testing scenarios). I did just finish my MBA, but that isn't relevant when it comes to the "language" of science necessary for the MCAT (or so I assume). Everyone has provided great rationale both for and against doing this, and I sincerely thank you for taking the time to evaluate my situation.

I guess there's only really one relevant question left to be asked (for now): is all of this review material (BR/TPR/ExamKrackers/etc.) fruitful enough to teach me the actual subject(s)/topic(s), or are they best left for reviewing and preparation for the MCAT only. In other words, if I wasn't going to take the MCAT and just wanted to learn biology, would BR be a sufficient source to lay a better than elementary foundation? Or maybe better stated, is BR going to be comparable to the actual course content at the University? Everything you guys have recommended is in the mail; I figure the more the merrier. I ordered the full set of BR two weeks ago, and responses to this thread have sold me on the other sources (EK, TPR). I'm leaning toward self-learning the material during the spring, without specific intent on doing so from an MCAT perspective, then going back with an MCAT-minded focus once done. I have the entire spring semester at my disposal, and I want to make the best of it. The good news is I'll have lots of exposure to the subject matter in question prior to taking the official courses, so if I don't get a 4.0 in the pre-med program I'm an idiot! The bad news is I'll be cramming most of my MCAT specific prep (outside of what I do this spring) into the 3-4 week Christmas break. I'll get it done though, unless someone comes to this thread with an extremely persuasive speech for not doing so...

So, BR equivalent to "official" university course(s), or just enough to satisfy the MCAT?

Thanks...

 

[jayoh]

I have only used the EK books/audio osmosis, and in my humble opinion, they would be perfect for review but terrible for teaching. They are really stripped down to basic concepts and memorization tricks.

And I forgot to add in my previous post-- Good luck to you!

 

[optopia]

I'm reading everyone's posts and gaining some extremely valuable insight; well, maybe motivation/inspiration would be more descriptive. I have faith in my abilities, and believe that if you guys can do it, then so can I. It has been a very long time though (since I was exposed to basic sciences and challenging testing scenarios). I did just finish my MBA, but that isn't relevant when it comes to the "language" of science necessary for the MCAT (or so I assume). Everyone has provided great rationale both for and against doing this, and I sincerely thank you for taking the time to evaluate my situation.

I guess there's only really one relevant question left to be asked (for now): is all of this review material (BR/TPR/ExamKrackers/etc.) fruitful enough to teach me the actual subject(s)/topic(s), or are they best left for reviewing and preparation for the MCAT only. In other words, if I wasn't going to take the MCAT and just wanted to learn biology, would BR be a sufficient source to lay a better than elementary foundation? Or maybe better stated, is BR going to be comparable to the actual course content at the University? Everything you guys have recommended is in the mail; I figure the more the merrier. I ordered the full set of BR two weeks ago, and responses to this thread have sold me on the other sources (EK, TPR). I'm leaning toward self-learning the material during the spring, without specific intent on doing so from an MCAT perspective, then going back with an MCAT-minded focus once done. I have the entire spring semester at my disposal, and I want to make the best of it. The good news is I'll have lots of exposure to the subject matter in question prior to taking the official courses, so if I don't get a 4.0 in the pre-med program I'm an idiot! The bad news is I'll be cramming most of my MCAT specific prep (outside of what I do this spring) into the 3-4 week Christmas break. I'll get it done though, unless someone comes to this thread with an extremely persuasive speech for not doing so...

So, BR equivalent to "official" university course(s), or just enough to satisfy the MCAT?

Thanks...

BR Biology has a LOT of extraneous detail. Biology is largely critical reading and being able to quickly interpret whatever experiment you're being shown, although you still need the basic knowledge. EK Bio leaves a lot to be desired, but it has all the material you need. It may be difficult to understand it at first but going through it a few times, supplemented with Googling or BR, can be sufficient - although with only one semester of Biology under your belt, you may struggle a bit more.

The danger, in my opinion, of what you're doing is that most people aren't good at sticking to a plan if they don't have a goal or deadline in mind. So if you're not registered for the MCAT but merely studying in the spring to "lay a foundation", the danger is that you lose motivation and don't stick to a strict plan because there's nothing tangible at stake.

Further, taking the MCAT in January 2015 is risky because if you don't do well or want to improve a score, there's no option to retake the same style MCAT. At that point it's a one shot deal. Is there any way you could aim to do a spring/summer/fall 2014 sitting, thus leaving yourself some buffer to do it again?

 

[optopia]

*deleted* posted in error

 

[1TB4RKSB4CK]

I would rather supplement with TPRH Bio IMO. I use TPRH Bio and supplement some wit TBR Bio because I started with it at the beginning, but my re-read days, I use EK Bio.

 

[sublyminal]

BR Biology has a LOT of extraneous detail. Biology is largely critical reading and being able to quickly interpret whatever experiment you're being shown, although you still need the basic knowledge. EK Bio leaves a lot to be desired, but it has all the material you need. It may be difficult to understand it at first but going through it a few times, supplemented with Googling or BR, can be sufficient - although with only one semester of Biology under your belt, you may struggle a bit more.

The danger, in my opinion, of what you're doing is that most people aren't good at sticking to a plan if they don't have a goal or deadline in mind. So if you're not registered for the MCAT but merely studying in the spring to "lay a foundation", the danger is that you lose motivation and don't stick to a strict plan because there's nothing tangible at stake.

Further, taking the MCAT in January 2015 is risky because if you don't do well or want to improve a score, there's no option to retake the same style MCAT. At that point it's a one shot deal. Is there any way you could aim to do a spring/summer/fall 2014 sitting, thus leaving yourself some buffer to do it again?

I could aim for a late spring/early summer sitting, but I would have zero official course material prior to the test. Remember, the last time I took ANY science was in undergrad (graduated 2004), and it's so old that I have to repeat it to get credit for med school apps. At that time I took physics 1, bio 1, and chem 1, but don't remember any of it (well, not literally, but you get the gist). As a firefighter I did have some chemistry refresher stuff when I got my haz-mat tech license, but nothing major; and no o. chem.

So to answer your question: I guess it's possible that I use the spring semester (most of it) to learn the subject matter (all the 2nd semester stuff and o.chem for the 1st time), then finish it off with an accelerated sn2ed schedule prior to taking a late spring/early summer MCAT (before my gen chem starts). In all honesty though, I remember almost nothing that I learned back then; concepts yes, but formula and technique- not at all. The drawback to this would be, again, zero exposure to the actual "official" versions of the prereqs. Under the current matrix I'd have taken all of gen chem (summer), and half of everything else (fall) before the MCAT to supplement what I "learn" this spring. That followed by a double day sn2ed Christmas break schedule for the January 2015 deadline.... hmmmm....as I type I begin to think I may be capable of doing something this spring....

It looks like it's this:
Spring 2014
No prereqs
Heavy BR/TPR/EK and lots of practice tests followed by a late spring MCAT

versus this:
Spring 2014
Heavy BR/TPR/EK (review portions and maybe 1-2 practice tests from an alternate source)
Summer 2014
Gen Chem 1 & 2
Fall 2014
Physics 1, Bio 1, O. Chem 1
January 2015
MCAT
Spring 2015
Physics 2, Bio 2, o. chem 2

 

[optopia]

This isn't an ideal situation either way, but most people would probably lean towards plan B because you'd have more formal background in the sciences, although only 1 shot at the MCAT. I would do plan A, but this depends on all the other factors I mentioned before, also whether you can take the time off of work (financial considerations). Although, I would not attempt a "double-day" Sn2ed personally... that is a recipe for burnout IMO. Maybe try, as soon as your books arrive, to follow an Sn2ed type schedule for a week or two as a trial, and see how well the material is sticking. If it sticks, and you think you can keep it up, then book a spring MCAT. Otherwise, January 2015 is always an option down the road

 

[valkener]

Take the prereqs first, your grades are your priority now.

 

[michigan1212]

Anecdotes are not data.

Okay, now that that's out of the way, let me offer some anecdotes and one piece of advice.

As you well know, the MCAT is not a science test. It's a critical thinking test that just happens to have science. As such there can be (and often are) huge mismatches between a person's science grades / science "smarts" and their ability to do well on the MCAT. Three quick anecdotes to illustrate that point:

I just got off the phone yesterday with a woman who's considering taking the MCAT and considering tutoring with my company. This woman is in her 40's and hasn't had a science class in two decades. She's a working professional in a very intellectually challenging line of work, but she wants to make a life change. She had taken AAMC MCAT #3 just to see what the MCAT was like, and got a 26, even after being away from science content for decades. She was able to do so well since she had such good critical reading skills.



So really what you need to do right away is get a sense of how well your own native critical reading skills align with how the MCAT test makers think. You should sit down and take AAMC MCAT#3 under test-like conditions. Now. Today. Your score, especially your Verbal score, will give you a very clear sense as to whether you can try something as ambitious as you're trying.

Good luck! 🙂

The part in red is wrong. The MCAT (two of three sections) is a science test. The questions are formatted to make you think critically about basic scientific concepts you should be very familiar with. If you don't understand these concepts, it doesn't matter how good of a critical thinker you are, the outcome will not be good. The MCAT has stand alone questions that are usually reasonably straight forward, you either know the answer or you don't. It is a test that utilizes critical thinking, but the foundation required for success is a solid understanding of scientific concepts.

 

[sublyminal]

I've received some invaluable advice on this forum, and I cannot thank you all enough. Octopia sparked a very legitimate thought process in that I'm tunnel-visioned into thinking that January 2015 is my only possible option for the current version of the MCAT. No matter what, if I take this thing before finishing my prereqs I will sell myself short; even if it's only by one point on the final tally. However, I really want to get this done prior to the revision for a multitude of logical reasons (see original post), and so after considering each of your advice and taking the best of all worlds, I'm going forward with the following plan:

1) I am going to expose myself to the topics via Khan Academy from now until December 6th. I will spend 8-10 hours per day of watching videos and taking minimal notes. That gives me just over a week (~80 hours max subtracting Turkey Day) to gain exposure to Chem/bio/physics. I actually started watching Khan Videos a few weeks ago, and so I'm not technically starting from scratch. I will probably have between 100-120 hours of Khan videos under my belt come the transition to step two.
2) From December 9th through February 14th I'm going to get through the self-paced online TPR study program (purchased yesterday). I will pre-read the relevant chapters before each "class", take notes during the videos/class, then do all homework assignments thereafter. There are a total of 41 lessons on TPR's self-paced online version. This gives me 67 days to get in 41 lessons; 50 days if I do no work on weekends. I plan on using Saturdays to "catch up" when necessary, and/or keep up on math skills. Sundays will be rest and family time for the most part.
3) From February 17th through the 28th I will read through the examkrackers books on each topic. I purchased the chemistry version last week (arrived yesterday) and noticed that they are straight to the point, yet very illustrative. This will be sort of like reviewing notes (that I didn't take in detail) from Khan.
4) March 3rd I will begin the 90 day sn2ed schedule using BR (purchased last week, received the tracking order yesterday). I will shave one week off of this schedule by not taking one of the tests.
5) My MCAT is scheduled for May 22nd. I begin the summer session (1st semester) of my post-bacc pre-med program the following Monday.

In all I will have exposure from four different sources (minimal). I will have a "foundation" laid by Khan Academy and regurgitated after TPR with ExamKrackers. I will have straight to the point MCAT intensive preparatory notes and extensive hands-on test taking practice via TPR. Finally, I will gain additional review and specific MCAT practice via the sn2ed schedule. I'm leveraging the TPR experience as my primary venue for "learning."

If I feel like I need more review time between TPR and the specific MCAT intensive prep schedule, I will trade the sn2ed method out for Spinach Dip's eight week version.

If this doesn't work, and I'm uncomfortable by my MCAT date, I will postpone the test until January 2015. The good news is I should be well prepared for the prereqs when they come! I'm aiming for a score above 35, and would really really like something beginning with a "4"...

I will keep you all posted via this thread as to my progress and feelings throughout. Thanks again for the rational/logical advice, and for sharing your opinions/experiences. We'll see how it goes...

 

[GauraBorah]

I think there are no hard and fast rules here. Same goes for which prep company to use.

Personally, I'm a very good at self-study and not so good at paying attention in class, so I opted to learn organic chemistry at my kitchen table. I think any of the major prep companies' books would have done just fine, although I'm partial to Berkeley Review because of the sheer number of passage-type questions that were harder than anything that showed up on the real MCAT, and I got so much butt-kicking while studying that the real thing was a cakewalk in comparison.

 

[sublyminal]

Khan biology done, foundation laid... wow...that was a lot of video 😕

Tomorrow I start chemistry... I wish I could find a way to watch this stuff in my sleep. After 5-6 hours I can barely keep my eyes open.

For those interested in brushing up on Khan, I found the 1.5x speed and 2x speed helpful to get through some of it.

 

[sausalito]

Keep up the good work. 🙂

 

[sublyminal]

Khan Chemistry done, O-Chem started... Watching the videos in 2x speed really helps.

I wasn't sure if this was the right tactic before I started (watching Khan videos to lay a foundation), but now I'm absolutely sure it was a good idea. I've read through a small portion of each set of MCAT study material (parts of EK physics, some BR biology, and some TPR chem), and the only stuff I had any confidence in (when reading) were the concepts I've already touched/seen/visited via Khan; even if I vaguely remembered it, or had a fraction of necessary knowledge to comprehend it- the confidence was there. As opposed to not having an idea what the heck they were talking about in, let's say- EK physics, with regards to various topics (ie; optics). Though I've taken minimal notes while watching Khan, I had some strange feeling of confidence/understanding/ability when crossing paths with similar topics in the MCAT stuff. My wife thought I was crazy when I started chemistry last week, seeing me at the computer watching videos for hours on end, but after having a discussion with her about various elements decaying and emitting positrons and electrons, and after talking her ear off with regards to my personal issue/complaint with any sort of electron sharing (or giving up) being referred to by more nomenclature than just simple variations of covalent bonds; she couldn't help but to laugh and given in to the ideology that I'm actually learning something! It was also fun teaching my eight year-old daughter various aspects of the periodic table, the notion of vapor pressure, and setting up our own little evaporation experiment! But this took the cake: After tucking my daughter in last night I noticed a piece of paper on the wall. Upon closer inspection I saw that she had a redox reaction written out perfectly; she must have been watching me study from over my shoulder

Anyways, I just wanted to give an update. I'll let you guys know when I finish O-chem. I'm dreading physics, because it is undoubtedly going to take longer than I had hoped when beginning this schedule, but I should be able to get it done and start the TPR stuff no later than next Thursday. I'm also going to try and squeeze in some trig review (actually never had it) and start on calculus if I have time. I'm going to do double days on TPR a few times so that I can stay ahead of schedule and ensure I have enough time for a little breathing room prior to starting the sn2ed schedule.

Later!