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wewefwefwfe
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MCAT v.s USMLE?
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USLME require more studying but both require thinking
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The MCAT is a science-themed aptitude test. USMLEs are content-driven behemoths which require a large foundation of knowledge and lots of critical thinking ability.
There are probably way more differences than similarities. The big one similarity would be that you have to be really good at applying information you know to novel situations. It's just that for USMLEs the "what you need to know" is way larger than it is for the MCAT.
There are probably way more differences than similarities. The big one similarity would be that you have to be really good at applying information you know to novel situations. It's just that for USMLEs the "what you need to know" is way larger than it is for the MCAT.
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wefwefwfew
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So i haven't taken step 1 yet (still a week away), but I have to say that this is a largely useless conversation. I know that correlations exist between USMLE and MCAT, but the tests are completely different. COMPLETELY.
Also, I have plenty of friends with low 30s on MCAT (borderline good score) that got 240+ on step 1 (great score that will put you in range for pretty much any specialty). This happens because many people barely study for the MCAT but then study their ass of for step 1 (because you have to, there is no choice, your LIFE IS ON THE LINE)
SO, MD 2016, stop wasting YOUR life and time. when you get done with the first two years of med school you'll know what the heck i'm talking about.
For now just get the heck of off student doctor STEP 1 FORUMS and enjoy your last freaking summer (because you better be doing research/saving africa next summer and studying hardcore for boards the summer after that if you want to get into a good residency).
PS. before you ask, i don't know of any sound correlations between MCAT score and how many ferraris owned 20 yrs later.
Also, I have plenty of friends with low 30s on MCAT (borderline good score) that got 240+ on step 1 (great score that will put you in range for pretty much any specialty). This happens because many people barely study for the MCAT but then study their ass of for step 1 (because you have to, there is no choice, your LIFE IS ON THE LINE)
SO, MD 2016, stop wasting YOUR life and time. when you get done with the first two years of med school you'll know what the heck i'm talking about.
For now just get the heck of off student doctor STEP 1 FORUMS and enjoy your last freaking summer (because you better be doing research/saving africa next summer and studying hardcore for boards the summer after that if you want to get into a good residency).
PS. before you ask, i don't know of any sound correlations between MCAT score and how many ferraris owned 20 yrs later.
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They're very very different tests. I'm sure there's a portion of each person's MCAT and Step 1 score that reflects raw intelligence and test-taking ability, and that will help explain the correlation. But the tests themselves are extremely different. The little flimsy EK books were enough to do well on the MCATs, but I have an absolutely massive pile of books to prepare for the USMLE.
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Planning ahead how? How does the relationship between MCAT and Step I help you plan? You think people who got a 38+ on MCAT can just skate by on step I and get a killer score? Is that what you're looking for? Sure as hell seems like it; that's why you don't want any of us *****s who couldn't drop a 38 with "14+ on the sciences" to dilute your thread with our worthless opinions. The correlations between MCAT and Step I have been pretty damn weak from everything I've seen (correlation of ~.5 comes to mind)
The fact that you don't see this thread as being completely worthless shows how little you really know about this topic. A more worthwhile thread would've been asking what resources to use to prepare thoroughly for step I during the first two years of med school, since that's what actually matters; not your past performance on the MCAT. Another piece of advice, forget about your stupid MCAT. It doesn't matter anymore; everyone starts back out at point zero.
Edit: Sorry to be so harsh on you, but in a couple of years I imagine you'll look back in embarrassment knowing that you started this kind of thread here. I get it that the MCAT seems like the end all be all right now to you, but in a month or two you'll quickly realize how worthless it is. Get ready to work your ass off just to stay afloat. There are loads of people with that 38+ on the MCAT that you seem to hold in such high regard, and they all have to work their butts off in class and in preparation for Step I too. Everyone in medical school is smart, so the difference maker is who is willing to work the hardest (with the rare super freak genius who just remembers everything). Also, don't lose sight of the ultimate goal, which never should have been to get a killer MCAT score, rank at the top of your class, or get a 265+ on Step I. The real goal is to become the best doctor possible who makes an impact in your patients' lives, and a 38T on the MCAT or a 276 on Step I don't really have any meaning in that regard.
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Though this was worded rather harshly, I have to say that I 100% agree.
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Yeah, I kinda realized that after I posted it, but to be honest that was a somewhat toned down version of what I really wanted to say when I first read this thread. The best thing the OP can do is spend a few hours reading various threads here on the Step-I forum and that will give him loads more information about "planning ahead" for Step-I than starting a thread like this one (which is probably better suited for the general allopathic medical school forum anyways). If the OP is reading this, I'd suggest starting out by reading the 2012 Step 1 scores and experiences thread. That is loaded with information from recent test takers.
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+1
Great advice. The end result isn't some test score on a computer screen.
I fear the competitive admissions process of medical school is favoring a new breed focused passionately on test scores and grades, and very little on medicine or patients. The urgency and "planning ahead" is focused on improving your paper application and not on becoming a better physician.
OP- the reason why people are saying MCAT and USMLE scores don't correlate is because the tests themselves are not even close to comparable. Honestly I'd say MCAT and SAT have more in common than MCAT and step 1.
MCAT (as you know) is heavy on reasoning. Sure, you need to know the basics of physics/chem/bio/ochem, but on the test they present you with an unfamiliar topic and ask you questions about it in the hopes that you can reason through the info and apply whatever basic knowledge you have.
Step 1 is very much a fact-based exam. No passages. You literally get 322 questions that require you to quickly read a clinical vignette and answer a question about it. The more you know, the better you'll do. I have friends with 31 MCATs who got 260s and friends with 40+ MCATs who got <230, mainly because they are naturally good testtakers, brilliant people, have never needed to study hard, and therefore had trouble buckling down to study for step 1.
I'm sure someone somewhere has done the MCAT vs. Step 1 correlation and found a very poor correlation. To be 100% honest I would say your 1st and 2nd year block exams will predict your Step 1 score better than your MCAT can.
MCAT (as you know) is heavy on reasoning. Sure, you need to know the basics of physics/chem/bio/ochem, but on the test they present you with an unfamiliar topic and ask you questions about it in the hopes that you can reason through the info and apply whatever basic knowledge you have.
Step 1 is very much a fact-based exam. No passages. You literally get 322 questions that require you to quickly read a clinical vignette and answer a question about it. The more you know, the better you'll do. I have friends with 31 MCATs who got 260s and friends with 40+ MCATs who got <230, mainly because they are naturally good testtakers, brilliant people, have never needed to study hard, and therefore had trouble buckling down to study for step 1.
I'm sure someone somewhere has done the MCAT vs. Step 1 correlation and found a very poor correlation. To be 100% honest I would say your 1st and 2nd year block exams will predict your Step 1 score better than your MCAT can.
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How does this have anything to do with planning ahead? If you're expecting a >38 MCAT will take you places once you're in med school, you're in for some trouble. It is completely worthless and irrelevant to get opinions from high-scoring MCAT takers vs low-scoring MCAT takers (in addition to it being kind of condescending). Med school is a blank slate, and MCAT performance poorly correlates to Step 1 performance.
Here's how they're different: one is an entrance exam that is set to gauge if the test-taker can reason through scientific scenarios with minimal foundational knowledge, and the other is a licensing exam intended to test content learned over two years. You approach these kinds of tests in completely different ways, and success on one test in no way guarantees success on the other.
If you want to plan ahead, here you go: the #1 best thing you can do to prepare for Step 1 is to work hard and learn as much as you can during your preclinical coursework.
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There seem to have been quite a few studies done to find out if there is a correlation between MCAT scores and success on the USMLE
here is the latest one (pdf)
basically it is saying that with pre-admission factors, they could only predict 21% of the USMLE scores variability. with pre-clinical med school course grades, their prediction improved to 57%. all the pre-clinicals plus the USMLE-1 score, added up to 64% predictibility of USMLE-2 scores.
so this confirms what the med students on this thread are saying. At best the MCAT predicts that with HARD WORK and lots of STUDYING, you would have a fair chance of doing well on the Step1. so don't take anything for granted, and bust your ass if you want to do well.
here is the latest one (pdf)
basically it is saying that with pre-admission factors, they could only predict 21% of the USMLE scores variability. with pre-clinical med school course grades, their prediction improved to 57%. all the pre-clinicals plus the USMLE-1 score, added up to 64% predictibility of USMLE-2 scores.
so this confirms what the med students on this thread are saying. At best the MCAT predicts that with HARD WORK and lots of STUDYING, you would have a fair chance of doing well on the Step1. so don't take anything for granted, and bust your ass if you want to do well.
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Does this thread make any sense? Someone who did really well on the mcat wants to know how the tests are similar so he can use that information to somehow prepare 2 years in advance for it. Naturally if you did well on the mcat, your first inclination is that you will need additional preparation that goes beyond what any other med student in the country needs.
But to answer your question, the similarities between the two tests are almost uncanny. In fact, you should probably repurchase the aamc practice tests and do them the summer after your second year as a refresher.
But to answer your question, the similarities between the two tests are almost uncanny. In fact, you should probably repurchase the aamc practice tests and do them the summer after your second year as a refresher.
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Emphasis on dreams
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A lot of people gave their opinions on the differences between the MCAT and USMLE. There are tons of differences, and I named a few. I think the issue is in the tone of your posts, where you do a shout-out to the 38+ crowd, which seems to imply that you think there is a strong correlation with doing well on the MCAT and doing well on the USMLE. Or, you don't really care about the advice the <38 crowd has to say.
What you gotta understand is this: the MCAT is completely meaningless in med school, and the only people who still care about the MCAT in med school are tools. Every class of students has a few that let slip their score in a pathetic attempt to brag. Don't be that guy.
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Xxxx
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I've got to be honest I don't understand all the bashing in the replies as well. I get why people think the question may come off as a little arrogant, but I think the OP is just nervous and wants advice from someone who he thinks is like him (even if it's in the most miniscule way). It's only natural, there are so many different pieces of advice on this forum from so many different people.
That being said, I think what you can gather from all the statements on this thread is that you can't rest assured of anything. You're about to start medical school and you're nervous as ****, and you're looking for some stat to calm you down; apparently the MCAT vs. USMLE 1 isn't the stat to do it.
That being said, I think what you can gather from all the statements on this thread is that you can't rest assured of anything. You're about to start medical school and you're nervous as ****, and you're looking for some stat to calm you down; apparently the MCAT vs. USMLE 1 isn't the stat to do it.
I agree with this. Honestly, I think the OP's mistake was having "accepted MD class of 2016!" in his/her signature. People on here pounce all over that without even really reading the question in its entirety. I don't blame the people who do, because we've all seen our fair share of "dumb MS1" questions on here. But as a tip to the MS1s who want to post: don't let anyone know you're an MS1 lol.
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wefwfewfeewfwfew
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I think what some of us are saying is: Why?
Why know this info about an exam the summer before you start medical school?
Also, you think getting a 38+ means something. It doesn't. To use a sports analogy, in the NFL, no one cares if you played well in college. Tom Brady was a pretty average college player. What if he gave you advice and you said, "wait Tom, I'd like to hear from someone who had better college stats than yours."
Restricting advice to: 38+ (with 14+ in the sciences) shows you don't understand the game.
Tabula rasa.
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I think it's more MS0s than MS1s. MS1s are "in the club", and while often neurotic, remind us of how silly our questions used to sound back then. But when MS0s charge into the Step 1 forums, that's a bit much.
I get how you feel the need to compare things to what is familiar. For example, as I have just finished MS2, I am extremely uppity about starting clinical rotations. I cling to the past by posting in Step 1 forums because Step 1 is safe (because I took it already), whereas clinical rotations are looming and scary.
I think the best thing you can do is try your best not to freak out right now about med school. There will be plenty of time to freak later; and when you freak later, you just go study more. When you freak now, what is there to do? Think about the MCATs and performance in med school? Eh, if it helps you get to sleep at night, go for it.
I bet you won't find any difference between what the >38 and <38 MCAT crowds say about Step 1. It's a whole new beast, and one that you cannot do anything about now. So kick back and enjoy the rest of your last summer of freedom 🙂
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For the most part I don't think it's bashing so much as just teasing you for what sounded like a silly post. If you really want an honest answer from a "38+" person, I really don't think it makes any difference, and if anything using some of the reasoning skills that help you get a good mcat score can hurt you on step 1. An overwhelming majority of questions are basic recall that don't require too much in depth critical thinking, and if you try to over dissect it, you can steer yourself away from the right answer. The "tough" questions are more often ones that ask about rare random conditions that aren't in most review texts. Sure there are critical thinking questions that require you to use your base of knowledge in a novel situation, but while that's largely what the mcat is, that's not a big part of step 1. They want to see if you can recognize a disease based on the classic clinical picture, and based on the diagnosis, figure out the treatment, the basic pathophysiology, etc.
Once you've done a lot of practice questions, you'll start to figure out what they want. If you've got a 38+, you're probably pretty smart and you can probably adjust your studying and test-taking skills accordingly to get a good score. But you don't need a 38+ to get a good step 1 score.What you really need is a hell of a memory and the work ethic to dedicate 4+ weeks to studying the material.
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In the above post, you make a pretty strong implication that you think there is some sort of correlation between MCAT and Step 1 that is significant. Why else would you want to see "how high scorers on the MCAT think differently of the USMLE compared to lower scorers"? The only logical conclusion from that statement is the one most of us came to on this thread. Frankly, when I first read this thread I started to post a comment that night, but decided to just let it slide. Then I saw the above post and decided to chime in with my opinion.
Anyway, I get that your MCAT score is all you have to go by, but as others have alluded to here, that means you have nothing to go by. You'll have plenty of time to worry about things when school starts. Until then, take it easy, and if you have to, just read some of the threads here (though that will probably just increase your stress, so I wouldn't advise it).
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can we just let this stupid thread die?
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I think the rage we've seen against the OP is due to people being butthurt they didnt meet his >38 criteria lol.
This is a little unrelated but I've heard it said many times that your verbal score correlates with your "test taking" ability and I think there is some truth to that. Verbal tests your ability to break down a passage/question and that skill is sorely needed many times on step 1... However, Step 1 is so dynamic that even the best test taker cannot ace the test with these skills alone.
This is a little unrelated but I've heard it said many times that your verbal score correlates with your "test taking" ability and I think there is some truth to that. Verbal tests your ability to break down a passage/question and that skill is sorely needed many times on step 1... However, Step 1 is so dynamic that even the best test taker cannot ace the test with these skills alone.
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What an astute creative observation.
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I don't think so. If verbal score truly correlated with test taking ability on an exam like STEP 1, then Harvard would be more than a standard deviation above the mean. They're a measly 13 points above the national mean - not even a single standard deviation. Quite a poor showing considering how many 38s+ are probably in a given class.
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Where would you find school step 1 averages?
also, the institutional pressure to do well on step 1 isn't nearly at strong at harvard as compared to other schools. So while the student body is very capable, the students don't study for step 1 for 6 months like students from schools where step 1 score are important to their reputation.
Im not at harvard med but I'm at a pretty good med school and I didn't get any freaking nbme vouchers and our dean tells us not to worry about step 1 until 5 to 6 weeks before the test. I'm the support is even less at harvard, where as at other schools they pretty much buy you your first copy of FA and make you take practice tests.
grads from great med schools also don't need a GREAT score. 240 or even high 230s is actually more than enough for to do whatever they want, where ever they want (with maybe the exception of 2 or 3 specialties.)
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Um, Harvard isn't some special snowflake when it comes to lack of support of STEP 1 studying or a lack of emphasis on board relevant material. It's probably more common for a school to be like that than one where a guy like Dr. Goljan or Dr. Sattar are teaching. My school bought us a 6 month UWorld subscription and said good luck. And they didn't even really buy us UWorld, it's in the tuition under exam fees. They just made sure no one was a cheap ass.
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Notice that I said that I'm not at Harvard but at a good school and didn't get any support.
And btw getting 6 months of Uworld is way more support than being actively and repeatedly told by your dean to NOT study for boards until the test was 6 weeks away.
Anyway, my point was that harvard board avgs may not reflect the maximum potential of the student body as it would at school where boards are emphasized from day one. More highly ranked medical schools have the luxury of not focusing their curriculum around board scores, where as lowly ranked ones need to do that in order to ensure a quality match list come 4th year.
And btw getting 6 months of Uworld is way more support than being actively and repeatedly told by your dean to NOT study for boards until the test was 6 weeks away.
Anyway, my point was that harvard board avgs may not reflect the maximum potential of the student body as it would at school where boards are emphasized from day one. More highly ranked medical schools have the luxury of not focusing their curriculum around board scores, where as lowly ranked ones need to do that in order to ensure a quality match list come 4th year.
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I've seen a lot of speculation about Harvard in particular (not just in this thread, but others) so I guess I can try to dispel some rumors if you guys want. Harvard's step 1 average has been 241-243 over the last 3 years. We don't get any vouchers for NBMEs, question bank subscriptions, etc. but this may be different for people who demonstrate significant financial need (not sure; never heard of it happening but that doesn't mean it doesn't). We have a dedicated advisor who helps you develop study strategies (she helps with figuring out how to study for classes, standardized tests, whatever you need...but you have to seek her out), that's about it. Our deans tell us that from their experience with past students, 230s do just fine coming from HMS.
Throw away since I'd like to stay as anonymous as possible
Throw away since I'd like to stay as anonymous as possible
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I come from a school that's probably in the bottom 25 of US allopathic schools. And hell no, they don't teach toward the boards. We have a ton of IMG professors that can barely speak intelligible English who are absolutely horrible at classroom instruction. You're reaching.
I got the 238 figure from phloston who is quoting a HMS student. I don't know the actual number.
If a school has "vouchers" for NBMEs, UWorld - you know that the student is actually paying for those, right? It'll be under the fee exam category on your tuition. It's not like there's some generous donor paying for these things or the NBME is waiving fees because they're friendly with the Dean.
I got the 238 figure from phloston who is quoting a HMS student. I don't know the actual number.
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Hmm no, I wasn't aware that students paid for vouchers. I see lots of posts around SDN from people who said they get x number of "free" vouchers from their school to take NBMEs, so I assumed that some schools offered assistance to students.
I guess if students are on financial aid of some kind then they might be getting "free" vouchers, then. At HMS, board prep is included in the cost of attendance but not the tuition, so you either 1) get financial aid, which covers all but $25k of the cost of attendance (and you end up paying for your board prep with your loans, essentially), or 2) pay for a larger portion of your cost of attendance, based on the financial aid office's calculation of how much your family can afford to pay for your education (and you still pay for all of your board prep materials).I'm looking at the emailed step 1 guide packet from our dedicated advisor that says our step 1 average for the last 3 years has ranged from 241-243.
