MCAT vs. GPA

[mystre83]

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Alright everyone, I'm new to all of this...but I got a question that I've received so many different Answers to that I've managed to become about as confused as I can get.

Which do Med schools care more about, your MCAT or GPA? 😕

What have ya'll heard. I have an alright GPA, but i'm hoping a good MCAT score would help me big time( not that i'm counting on it). Alright...have your way with the question....
😎

 

[Ernham]

The majority view the MCAT with a bit more weight than GPA. They are particularly looking at discrepancies between MCAT and GPA.

 

[BOOURNS]

I think GPA is far more important. Case in point:

I graduated with a 3.42, scored 38 on MCAT.

After two application cycles - ZERO ACCEPTANCES

My lower grades were only during my first year and a half. Second two years I averaged about 3.85

Life sucks sometimes...


Good luck, get your grades up!

 

[exmike]

Originally posted by TYY
I think GPA is far more important. Case in point:

I graduated with a 3.42, scored 38 on MCAT.

After two application cycles - ZERO ACCEPTANCES

My lower grades were only during my first year and a half. Second two years I averaged about 3.85

Life sucks sometimes...


Good luck, get your grades up!

You are an anomaly

 

[Ernham]

Originally posted by exmike
You are an anomaly

Nah, he just forgot to mention he had no volunteer or research experience and that he has only been applying to columbia, hopkins, harvard.

 

[BOOURNS]

Actually, I have a TON of clinical experience (Volunteer work and I am currently a surgical tech/first assistant)

However, my research experience IS virtually nonexistant.

I am a CA resident, which makes it tough. I want to end up at a UC school.

However, I didn't get so much as an interview invite from my "safety" school, VCU.

MCAT is not that important!! Get good grades!! 3.4 SUCKS!! You don't want to be ME!!

 

[indo]

Originally posted by exmike
You are an anomaly

Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.

 

[DarkChild]

[OT] - but i loved the matrix reloaded. anyone who is a true fan of the matrix cant help but like it too. it takes stuff to a whole other level and is AMAZING... true some fight scenes etc where drawn out, but damn! i was blown away.... seeing it again tomorrow..
😀 [/OT]
as to the question of MCAT vs. GPA - i think the grass is always greener on the other side. I, like, mr. anomaly, wasnt too thrilled with the bump my MCAT score gave me in the admissions game 😉
so i'll posit another theorem:
if GPA >=3.7, then MCAT is more important than GPA
else GPA is more important...
as i see it, once you hit a certain level of academic accomplishment - indicated by your GPA - then the most important thing will likely be your MCAT score.
but what the h3ll do i know?
i just learned to read yesterday and today i practice typing 😀

Originally posted by indo
Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.

 

[deez4life]

hmmm, vcu didn't even give you an interview with a 3.4 and a 38? their average hovers a little below 3.5, so that's more than a bit surprising you didn't get one, especially with a high mcat score. how was your personal statment? is your writing good? did you present yourself well on the post-secondary experiences section of the amcas?

Originally posted by TYY
Actually, I have a TON of clinical experience (Volunteer work and I am currently a surgical tech/first assistant)

However, my research experience IS virtually nonexistant.

I am a CA resident, which makes it tough. I want to end up at a UC school.

However, I didn't get so much as an interview invite from my "safety" school, VCU.

MCAT is not that important!! Get good grades!! 3.4 SUCKS!! You don't want to be ME!!

 

[Emann8]

TYY your post has really put a damper on my day. I just can't imagine a 3.4 gpa, 38 MCAT, 'something' as clinical experience not even getting you an interview at your safety school. I have to go w/ d4life, the gpa averages for various schools have to include gpa's even below a 3.4 and I'll bet VCU accepted students w/ your gpa that have lower MCAT scores than you. Again like D4life said your personnal statement might be a problem.

I'm wondering if you've put too much of your work experience as a surgical tech in it. Also I'm wondering if you're picking the right schools to apply to and why you'd pick a school clear across the country when you want to stay in CA?! Also I checked the VCU's own website as a Virginia resident myself planning to apply to VCU and the website 1st of all lists MCATs as the #1 selection factor and says that a 30 is avg and 36-38 is exceptional! It also says that it's avg gpa is 3.4!!!

http://www.medschool.vcu.edu/ume/faq.html#q3

I don't mean to harp on you but based on what you've posted you clearly deserve an interview and there might be a minor discrepency you've overlooked somewhere. Good luck my man.

PS what was your major?

 

[Hawaiiandoc04]

MCAT is clearly more important.... I would rather take a guy with a 38 and a 3.4 vs. a guy with a 28 and a 4.0....


Its been demonstrated that MCAT scores correlate with board scores so clearly med schools would be more interested in MCAT.... besides gpa is so arbitrary where as MCAT's are standardized

 

[Entei]

The point is there are no safety schools.

Numbers might put you "above the averages" for a certain school, but each school is different. If they don't think you'll fit in, even if you are qualified, you won't get in! The same is true if they sense that your heart lies elsewhere, and you're only using them as a back-up. You can't shoot for all top-tier schools and have one school as a back-up. In that case, if you're not extremely lucky, then you won't get in anywhere.

I think the MCAT is only slightly more important than GPA. If you have a high GPA, a high MCAT will validate it. If you have a high GPA and a low MCAT, then the possibility of grade inflation is raised. A low GPA with an upward trend and/or difficult courses with a high MCAT isn't going to kill your application, but you need to be able to explain this in an interview or PS. A low GPA and MCAT leaves you SOL. Both are important because they measure different things.

 

[BOOURNS]

Last year I got secondaries from all but one school I applied to, (only 9 schools). This year I did have one interview (at UCI), where I am currently waitlisted.

I suppose if I applied to 25+ schools like some around here, I would be in school now; perhaps my standards are too high...

Of course that's what VCU was for. I have a college buddy that goes to dental school there, and I shopped for a school with a low mean GPA. VCU seemed like my best bet.

Tyler

 

[Horseradish99]

TYY-- not here to criticize you, but I think that you might be on to something when you say your standards are too high. Applying to VCU as a safety was a good idea. However, just as in the circus they have a safety NET, composed of crosslinking ropes, I would argue that you need to have a few more safety schools to make that net happen. It's not often that you can fall back on one thin rope and land safely. Sorry, cheesy analogy, but there isn't much point to applying to only one safety school. Admissions is about some numbers, but often very much about crapshoots, so I'd recommend finding a few more schools you like that are more of a safety for you. If, however, you will not be satisfied with anything less than the UCs, then more power to you. Nothing wrong with that-- just gotta be ready to have a lower chance of getting in. Also, I'm not advocating applying to 25 schools-- I do think that is kinda silly, myself, and really expensive. I applied to 9, which was more than enough.

Hope that makes sense for both TYY and a lot of the people going through the new cycle. If you want to at least get IN somewhere, make sure you have a NET. If you are more concerned with getting in to a certain place, maybe you can worry less about having safeties.

🙂 scott

 

[JulianCrane]

Let's make one thing clear. The MCAT is NOT a truly standardized test because you are only graded against those who took your form. If you ask me, that just makes that experience even more tragic. All the work I put into that exam to find out that it all depends on who took my form.

 

[IrishOarsman]

I know you guys have all dog-eared yours already, but to repeat from the MSAR:

"Accepted applicants exceeded those not accepted between 3.5 and 3.75[total gpa]"
[4.0, >1700 rejections, >6000 acceptances.]

"Accepted applicants exceeded those not accepted at a total score of 27"
[>500 accepted at 25, <500 rejected at 37]

Looks like gpa is a bit 'harder'.

However, a note:

I feel terrible for everyone who wants to go to medical school and has not gotten in yet, especially those with above average numbers. However, I don't think everyone should get so wigged out because there are a number of unfortunates who share on SDN (aside: thankfully sharing- putting things into some perspective and sharing their past experieence).

Keep the faith. Getting so worked up that your secondary answers seem neurotic and your interview gives you ulcers cannot be good! Not to mention it is summer time: go to pools, ogle people in minimal clothing, etc. 🙂

 

[nirvana23]

GPAs are pretty subjective.

A 4.0 at Podunk U is not equivalent to a 4.0 at a reputable school. I think school put more weight on the MCAT just because everyone takes the same test, so if the MCAT is subjective, then everyone's subjective together (if that makes any sense).

Things will even out, though. My GPA sucked (and by sucked, I don't mean 3.5), but my MCAT was pretty good, and I got accepted.

Just make sure that something about you stands out. Good luck!

edit - I agree... There are no safety schools. 🙁

 

[Shades McCool]

Just curious about some thing. You guys say that your GPA and MCAT should match up right? Ok well what MCAT score do you see matching up with a 3.9+ GPA in Molecular Biology?

 

[nirvana23]

Originally posted by Shades McCool
Just curious about some thing. You guys say that your GPA and MCAT should match up right? Ok well what MCAT score do you see matching up with a 3.9+ GPA in Molecular Biology?

A 3.9 at what university?

 

[gogiants]

to the poster-the reason you have received no clear answer and never will is that there is no clear answer. and i know that is a disappointment because we all want to be able to guage our chances from the get-go. as simplistic as it is, you just want to do as good as you can at both, and from that point med schools are going to compare the two to see if there is any significant difference (ie 40 mcat, 3.0 gpa or 25 mcat, 4.0) and then they are going to figure out why this is, like whether you went to an "easy" undergrad and chose an "easy" major or whether it looks like you are a smart person who has test problems. this is not to say admissions committees are going to debate this for hours but it might be good for you to make some sort of reference in your application if the two are significantly different. but i wouldn't freak out if you are talking about like a 29 and a 3.7 or a 3.6 and a 34. but again this all depends on what schools you are aiming for and whether they are particularly partial towards, say, high mcat scores. see how complicated this is. so instead of wasting your energy obsessing its best to get scores that you feel satisfied with (and there are always ways to improve both gpa and mcat) and then just dive in.

 

[Shades McCool]

Originally posted by nirvana23
A 3.9 at what university?

Auburn University

 

[WatchingWaiting]

Med school applications (unless you have a 3.8+ and 38) are a crapshoot for the simple reason of number of applicants per slot. For example, pick almost any med school with a class size of 100. It will get ~4000 applications, of which ~1500 have competitive numbers for their school, but only ~500 interview slots are available and only ~200 of those will get an acceptance.

This happens because Joe Average Paranoid Premed chooses to apply to, on average, 15 schools. Thus, what happens is each school has 1500 qualified applicants and has to choose 1/3 of them to interview. If 10 schools consider you in that competitive group, you'd expect, on average 3 or 4 to interview you. This leads to, on average, things "working out." Unfortunately, you always get a few unfortunate people who end up being the statistical outliers and not getting as many interviews as they "statistically deserve." As well as the phenomena of people who get more slots than they deserve.

In short, unless you're a truly stellar applicant (3.8+ and 38 MCAT), you're in that "borderline" group that should get accepted, but due to the small class sizes and pre-med overapplication, occasionally don't.

 

[Sonya]

I think GPA is slightly more important, but it is school dependent. They are about equal. Another thing to factor is sci/non sci gpa

 

[Shades McCool]

Ok here is the question phrased better: All things being equal, what MCAT score would YOU equate with a 3.9 GPA in Molecular Biology?

 

[dynx]

I don't think you are going to get a good answer shades. I find (just from my friend's experiences) that GPA and MCAT scores correlate well with GPAs in the range of about 3.4 to 3.7 but on either side of that range some interesting **** happens. People wiht 3.9s tend to be either smart as hell (rare) and score well on the MCAT or dumb as bricks (very common from what I have seen) and score amazingly low. Lower than a 3.3 and you get some (I would say a fairly good number, 10-15%) very bright people who are just not motivated but blow the MCAT away and hence all the bitching and whining from the 4.0s that the MCAT just isn't fair. I would guess, if I had to, that you got about a 29. Let me know if I'm right, my theory may be completely off for all I know.😀

 

[Ernham]

I would say a 3.9 should correlate to about a 32-36 in that particular major.

 

[sflynn]

I thought this was an interesting thread and thought I'd provide my two cents.

First here are my stats: undergrad GPA: 3.55 at a small
private college

grad school: 3.8 earning an MS
in chemistry at Duke

MCAT: 34

I applied to 5 schools, was offered interviews to all, attended interviews at three and have 2 acceptances and 1 wait list.

I think my MCAT and my grad school GPA work well together. I also knew that it was important to explain away my wretched grades during my first year of college. As a 17 year old freshman I took and received C's in both organic chemistry and physics. My second semester of organic was a nice solid B but physics was a bad experience. I recognized this as a problem and I addressed it head on in my personal statement. This issue came up in my interview and I was asked how I dealt with my apparent deficiencies. I was honest. First, I got a textbook out and I taught myself the material. Second, I tutored and taught the material as much as I could. My MCAT score proved that I fixed particularly my physics problem.

So which is more important.....I think the MCAT. A good MCAT score can help you explain away a less than stellar GPA. A good GPA cannot help you explain away a poor MCAT. A poor MCAT simply gives the good GPA less credibility.

Now that I am finally done with this process, except for choosing which of the two schools I'm going to attend, I would offer this advice. DOn't hide from any weaknesses in your application. Be forward and up front with them. Be true to your heart and make your application a portrait of you and not of who you think the adcoms want to see. And finally, STUDY FOR THE MCAT

Stephanie

PS: I've done the admissions process from both ends. I have been a college chemistry prof and frequent pre-med advisor for the past 5 years. This is an amazingly brutal process and I wish everyone the best of luck.

 

[indo]

Originally posted by Hawaiiandoc04
MCAT is clearly more important.... I would rather take a guy with a 38 and a 3.4 vs. a guy with a 28 and a 4.0....


Its been demonstrated that MCAT scores correlate with board scores so clearly med schools would be more interested in MCAT.... besides gpa is so arbitrary where as MCAT's are standardized

Brudduh, you used the word "clearly" too many times. If it were that clear this thread wouldn't exist.

 

[ttac]

Originally posted by Shades McCool
Ok here is the question phrased better: All things being equal, what MCAT score would YOU equate with a 3.9 GPA in Molecular Biology?

There is no way to accurately guess, without knowing what kind of person you are. Clearly, the 3.9 shows that you have the discipline and stick-to-it-iveness to do well on the exams, but are you one of those premeds that studies a billion hours to memorize everything/regurgitate it verbatim on exams, but is unable to think for himself and synthesize new information? I think a good MCAT score depends on two things:
1) Discipline (which you certainly have, if you have a 3.9)
2) Ability to use/manipulate/integrate/apply new information. This will show up on the SAT.

I have known both types of 3.9's. One (my ex-lab partner) had a 4.0 while double-majoring in chem and bio at MIT, and got a 10V, 13P, 15B. Very, very bright guy.

I also know a classmate of mine who had a 3.9 in her bio masters program, but only got ~straight 9's on the MCAT. She studies a billion hours a week, yet is only doing average in med school.

I'd say that the SAT+GPA is a pretty good predictor of your MCAT.
If you had 1550+ SAT's and a 3.9GPA, I'd guess 36-39+.
If you had ~1500+ SAT's and a 3.9GPA, I'd guess somewhere around 34-36 on the MCAT. OTOH, with 1300 SAT's and a 3.9GPA, I would guess 31-33.

ttac

 

[Cafepinay]

Honestly, I think it depends on the school...and (I'm sure this is no surprise) what other good stuff you have on the app.

I've been through this before, had a 3.4 gpa...not too stellar, but good mcat scores. I applied to 29 schools and managed to get one interview and one waitlist, for a school that had an MSAR gpa average of 3.6...meanwhile, the schools that had the 3.4 gpa average rejected me. The avg mcat scores didn't match either.

But to no surprise, uci tells me "sorry, but we're not thinking too much out of the box this year"

Sometimes things aren't so obvious, and knowing that, I think that while going thru this again, I'll have a better shot. I retook the mcat (hopefully these'll be better scores), have more clinical experiences, and am revamping my personal statement to reflect these experiences that have impacted me like nothing else has before. I'm going through this differently.

I think, aside from mcat and gpa, what makes you unique, unique in the sense that an interviewer would want to get to know you better, makes a difference...You can have a stellar GPA, and a great MCAT score, and great experiences, but how many others have those stats?? Plenty. I think, many med schools, no matter how high the "averages" are, like diversity, so all is not lost.

A second thing is timing ...Everyone here knows that's huge. If I had applied sooner last time (not sent the AMCAS in august) I think I would be more able to clearly evaluate whether there is a preference for gpa or mcat or not...

Or, when it comes down to it, the app may fall into the hands of an adcom member who's having a crappy day.

There is a lot of strategy required for this process, but there's a lot of luck too.

 

[thewebthsp]

Things that would help:

High SGPA (>3.6)
High GPA (>3.5)
Challenging course of study
Sending in AMCAS before third week in June
High MCAT (= or > 10 on each section)
Two or more clinical experiences
Striking and sincere personal statement
Recs from PhDs who KNOW YOU (5-6)
Good communication skills (interview)
Leadership/Entrepreneurship
Unique Activities (like biking axs country for cancer fundraising,
or going to South America to help sick kids).
Research/Publications
Diverse cultural experiences
Dumb Luck

Things that can KILL anyone's application:

Low MCAT <25 or <9 on any section
Low GPA (<3.2)
ONE bad recommendation
None or insufficient clinical experience
Ethical/Felony Problem
Flat personal statement
Introverted personality (poor interviewing skills)
Recs from ppl who do not know you
no unique experiences
no unique cultural experiences
sending in AMCAS after mid-August
Bad Luck

 

[IndyZX]

can we please squash dumb idea that you have to do something super awesome extracirricular to get into med school? unless you need to stand out because of subpar ugrad grades or something, its totally unnecessary.

just play the game, people. as much as it might suck to hear, there are plenty of people who just do their 1-2yrs of hospital volunteering and get into med school. why? because they had good grades in college and they made over a 30 on the mcat. if you apply to enough schools with those stats, youll probably get in.


of course, doing that super awesome extracirricular is great, and if that stuff occurs because of who you are rather than who you are trying to impress, itll all work out for you in the end anyway.