MD/MBA for ER doc

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mjjdm1985

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If this should be in dual degree feel free to move but I'd appreciate input from ER docs in particular...

I am applying for medical school now and will be starting (hopefully) in 2011. Things might change, but I think that I would like to eventually practice as an ER physician in a large city. I'm thinking about doing a combined MD/MBA program. What advantages/opportunities do you think this might give a doctor in an ER/hospital setting?

--I will always want to practice medicine clinically, but might want to be involved in the administrative/policy-making side of medicine as well.

Thanks in advance for any input.

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Consulting, medical direction, hospital administration.

An MBA isn't required for those, but it can give you an advantage.

Would it be better to get both degrees at the same time or get the MD first and then after being an attending for some time get the MBA.
I figure if you get the MBA along with the MD you won't use the MBA for some time. 4 years of residency and then a few years as the newbie attending. So maybe only after like 10 years post med school will the MBA be actually used? Agree/disagree?

Plus adding like $80k to med student loans won't be good.
 
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Would it be better to get both degrees at the same time or get the MD first and then after being an attending for some time get the MBA.
I figure if you get the MBA along with the MD you won't use the MBA for some time. 4 years of residency and then a few years as the newbie attending. So maybe only after like 10 years post med school will the MBA be actually used? Agree/disagree?

Plus adding like $80k to med student loans won't be good.


Good question and I hope someone with more experience can answer it. One thing that I have found out recently about one medical school that I might attend is that they actually cover tuition for BOTH the MD and MBA if you go to their school and do the MD/MBA. That will be a huge factor, of course, on what I do. I have talked to three schools about their MD/MBA programs and only one of them does this, but thought I'd tell you in case you didn't know it was out there.
 
Good question and I hope someone with more experience can answer it. One thing that I have found out recently about one medical school that I might attend is that they actually cover tuition for BOTH the MD and MBA if you go to their school and do the MD/MBA. That will be a huge factor, of course, on what I do. I have talked to three schools about their MD/MBA programs and only one of them does this, but thought I'd tell you in case you didn't know it was out there.

That is very interesting indeed, I didn't know that schools did that.
 
That's really interesting. I had no idea there are Programs that will subsidize you like that. On the one hand it'd be hard to turn down a degree that was paid forloke that. One the other hand there is the opportunity cost of not working as an attending for a year.

I think an MBA could be helpful for an EP as we tend to be involved in some pretty complicated business transactions in terms of the contracts and group structures. Being an EP who is also involved with the hospital business side is a really powerful position if you can swing it. I agree that you should ask for input in the dual degree forum as well.

And just as an aside, you should get used to using the term "Emergency Physician" rather than "ER Physician." Sooner or later you'll run into someone who actually cares about that stuff. 😉
 
If this should be in dual degree feel free to move but I'd appreciate input from ER docs in particular...

I am applying for medical school now and will be starting (hopefully) in 2011. Things might change, but I think that I would like to eventually practice as an ER physician in a large city. I'm thinking about doing a combined MD/MBA program. What advantages/opportunities do you think this might give a doctor in an ER/hospital setting?

--I will always want to practice medicine clinically, but might want to be involved in the administrative/policy-making side of medicine as well.

Thanks in advance for any input.


I'm a fourth year MD/MBA student, entering my final year in a month. I definitely think that skills I've learned will be extremely useful throughout my career, and not even in the way I assumed they would just a year ago. I thought that the greatest benefit would be from the finance and accounting that I would learn; that knowledge is helpful, but its been the other stuff that I've found most interesting and applicable to ED management.
In my Information Technology class, we learned about the ins-and-outs of large scale IT transformation of a business, knowledge that I'm able to apply to health IT in hospitals and in the ER. For my class project, I evaluated the IT infrastructure of my med schools ER and was able to come up with recommendations for improving work flow and reducing costs.
Right now, in Operations Management, I'm learning how patients flow through a clinic setting, how to evaluate where bottlenecks arise and how to strategically place your assets to minimize wait times and maximize physician time for actual patient care.
I've used my "spare time" during business school to work for a private equity firm that invests in health care facilities, so I'm putting to use my finance/accounting knowledge in a healthcare setting, while making a nice little stipend. I'm also using the job as a case study for my strategy class, evaluating how the private equity firm should move forward while adjusting to changes in healthcare and how the state pays for low-income patients.
As you can see, I'm a big fan of the combined degree, especially for people who know how they want to use it in the future. Many of my classmates are using it as a post-third year, pre-residency mental vacation, which I would consider a valid reason if it didn't cost another $55k in loans (plus, many of these people regret going to B-school). If you just want a break at some point during med school, do a year of research that will boost your CV without adding to your debt load. If you're willing to work hard to obtain some useful skills that will impact your career, go for the MBA and don't look back.
 
I can only speak for Yale, but here you can do the MD/MBA in five years. You pay MBA tuition during that 5th year, so you save a year of tuition over doing a 2 year MBA once you are working. I'm not doing the MBA but a bunch of my friends are and the 5 year program seems to be working well for them.
 
You pay MBA tuition during that 5th year, so you save a year of tuition over doing a 2 year MBA once you are working.

The flip side to this is that many jobs will pay your tuition if they think that the added knowledge/credentials will help you fill some role in their department. I'm not necessarily advocating one route over the other, or saying that this is true of all jobs, but realize that if you wait till post-residency, there are ways to get degrees that won't cost you extra money. There are also programs geared towards working folks, so you don't necessarily have to take time off (and lose income) as you would in a traditional M-F, 9-5 program. I'm currently getting my master's in education and every job offer I got (academics, obviously) was also willing to cover my tuition; I think the same is true for MBA, MPH, etc, as long as it's applicable to your job.
 
+1 to Hawkeye.
If you go academics (which of course means a pay cut) then you can get all the free education you want.
You could probably do night school as well.
 
That's exactly how I would like to use the degree SanDiego and I will make sure I use the term "Emergency Physician" from now on docB. Hard to believe I worked in an ER for 12 months and never knew it wasn't politically correct to say ER physician. Just proves once again how much I still have left to learn 🙂

The MD/MBA program I am most interested in is a four-year program, and admissions personnel at the med school said that if you enter the dual program all of your MD and MBA tuition is paid for. I asked them twice because I could hardly believe it...and I still don't know if I believe it haha. Seems way too good to be true. If I don't enter that program, though, it's seeming like doing the MBA after I start working would probably be the next best financial alternative.

Thanks!
 
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