MD or DO SMP or PostBacc

[CornellHumDevNeuro]

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Hey,

I just took the MCAT again (9/1) and I am pretty sure I am in the 490s (I know awful, but I didn't have a choice I had to take it again).

I went to an Ivy for undergrad and grad school. My undergrad GPA is 3.5 pretty sure my science GPA is around there or higher. I finished my Master's with a 3.6. I do have tons of volunteer, research, a clinical experience (eg., 100s of ER volunteer hours, traveling to a third world country and volunteering at a clinic and doing pharmacological research etc..).I know my biggest barrier towards osteopathic school is my MCAT.

Hence, I truly believe a postbacc will help - I have not taken biochemistry and I believe taking rigorous science courses and being in an enriching environment will definitely help me prove I can handle Med school course work / get better at the MCAT. That being said I really want to do LECOM's postbacc, but I have also been looking at Marian's, Burrell, NOVA, and VCOM's postbacc as well.

Couple questions:

Am I a good candidate for these programs? If not, what seems to be holding me back? Most of these programs require the MCAT (except VCOM), but there minimums are 490ish. I really want to go to an osteopathic medical school, but I am open to MD postbaccs as well. Mostly, I want to do a postbacc that offers a guaranteed acceptance or linkage.

Thanks in advance! 🙂

 

[Goro]

These programs are a dime-a-dozen. Do your research. But your problem is your GPA, it's the MCAT. Some take some Biochem and maybe some MCAT prep courses.

IF test taking anxiety is an issue, get that fixed.

 

[Peach Newport]

Your problem is your MCAT. Your GPA is just fine.

All medical schools want students who have BOTH. They aren't going to care how good your GPA is, if your MCAT is that horrible.

Trying to compensate for a poor mcat with better grades will get you a great GPA, lots of debt, and no medical school interviews.

Take that money that you would have spent on a post-bacc or whatever your idea was and spend it on a thorough MCAT prep course. Take the test seriously.

Also, I'm not going to sugarcoat this: your plan to take a post-bacc/SMP in hopes of doing better on the mcat/proving you can handle med school is all types of crack-smoking stupid.

 

[workaholic181]

Hey,

I just took the MCAT again (9/1) and I am pretty sure I am in the 490s (I know awful, but I didn't have a choice I had to take it again).

I went to an Ivy for undergrad and grad school. My undergrad GPA is 3.5 pretty sure my science GPA is around there or higher. I finished my Master's with a 3.6. I do have tons of volunteer, research, a clinical experience (eg., 100s of ER volunteer hours, traveling to a third world country and volunteering at a clinic and doing pharmacological research etc..).I know my biggest barrier towards osteopathic school is my MCAT.

Hence, I truly believe a postbacc will help - I have not taken biochemistry and I believe taking rigorous science courses and being in an enriching environment will definitely help me prove I can handle Med school course work / get better at the MCAT. That being said I really want to do LECOM's postbacc, but I have also been looking at Marian's, Burrell, NOVA, and VCOM's postbacc as well.

Couple questions:

Am I a good candidate for these programs? If not, what seems to be holding me back? Most of these programs require the MCAT (except VCOM), but there minimums are 490ish. I really want to go to an osteopathic medical school, but I am open to MD postbaccs as well. Mostly, I want to do a postbacc that offers a guaranteed acceptance or linkage.

Thanks in advance! 🙂

So your first MCAT was low, you just retook and feel like you scored in the 490s?

A lot of people have some misconception that SMPs are like a backdoor to med school. While many offer linkage, it's usually on the condition of a certain GPA in their program (3.6+) and MCAT score combination. I don't remember the usual MCAT criteria I've seen but 490s wouldn't cut in anywhere I imagine.

In terms of whether or not this is a good move for you, it sounds like the MCAT is just your biggest issue. A lot of SMPs have MCAT prep courses as part of the curriculum if your MCAT doesn't already meet their requirement. So from that standpoint it could be a good move.

But this is high risk high reward. If something goes wrong in this program you basically need to move onto something else outside of medicine, only with 100k+ debt too.

Good luck OP. If I were you I would just take an MCAT prep course and really prepare well for like a March 2018 date or something. A solid MCAT (505+) and early app would likely get you into DO schools next year.

 

[CornellHumDevNeuro]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Looks like I'll just wait and see what my MCAT score is and then move on from there. MCAT prep course seems like th way to go

 

[GypsyHummus]

Op, like others have said, if you are ready to face the risks, do a linked SMP/post bacc. VCOM and LECOM come to mind as ones with "gaurenteed" acceptances if you get a certain GPA in the program.

If not, look into podiatry school. The GPA and MCAT thresholds are somewhere in the 3.0 490 mark. Three schools take classes with DO students. You get to be a foot and ankle doc/surgeon.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I've seen people with higher GPAs than yours and low MCATs get crushed by these programs. All they needed was one good retake on the MCAT and they probably could have gone to an MD school. Now medical school is pretty much out of the picture for them and all they've gotten out of it was 20-40k in debt. This is the future that awaits you if you fail one of these post-baccs...

 

[GypsyHummus]

And there are people who end up sticking the landing with low MCATs as well.

One needs to do a lot of research before taking the plunge. There are a lot of post baccs out there, only a few are worth the squeeze.

I've seen people with higher GPAs than yours and low MCATs get crushed by these programs. All they needed was one good retake on the MCAT and they probably could have gone to an MD school. Now medical school is pretty much out of the picture for them and all they've gotten out of it was 20-40k in debt. This is the future that awaits you if you fail one of these post-baccs...

 

[Mad Jack]

Medical schools don't overlook MCAT performance because you did well in a postbacc. That year would be better spent on a MCAT retake.

 

[GypsyHummus]

No, but some post bacc will accept a student if they have a very low (490s) MCAT if they maintain a certain GPA in the program. See VCOM and LECOM.

Medical schools don't overlook MCAT performance because you did well in a postbacc. That year would be better spent on a MCAT retake.

 

[Mad Jack]

No, but some post bacc will accept a student if they have a very low (490s) MCAT if they maintain a certain GPA in the program. See VCOM and LECOM.

A postbacc is a huge gamble though. Not performing extremely well will essentially tank OP's chances forever at a five figure cost, while another MCAT retake has minimal cost and opens far more doors than the singular one a postbacc can should things go very well. That's just my cost:benefit analysis though.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Doing poorly on the MCAT again will also tank OPs chances as well, the MCAT scores don't just "go away". Sometimes people just can't do well on the MCAT. It's not a conventional test, and there really isn't a "class" in the traditional sense for it. Many people need a "traditional lecture" component to absorb the material fully, some can absorb simply through reading.

I recommend those who need that type of lecture style to do a post bacc, as you can ask questions and get concrete answers from your professors. That is missing in MCAT prep of any kind. The MCAT is basically just a big reading test that tests your comprehension on long winded passages using concepts you learned 2-5 years ago.

Add to the fact that just because you get a 502 on the MCAT after 3 times doesn't automatically get you into a school, a postbacc with a linkage seems like a reasonable idea. What happens if OP takes a year off, studies MCAT, get a 502 and gets waitlisted? What if he studies and gets a 495?

A postbacc is a huge gamble though. Not performing extremely well will essentially tank OP's chances forever at a five figure cost, while another MCAT retake has minimal cost and opens far more doors than the singular one a postbacc can should things go very well. That's just my cost:benefit analysis though.

 

[Mad Jack]

Doing poorly on the MCAT again will also tank OPs chances as well, the MCAT scores don't just "go away". Sometimes people just can't do well on the MCAT. It's not a conventional test, and there really isn't a "class" in the traditional sense for it. Many people need a "traditional lecture" component to absorb the material fully, some can absorb simply through reading.

I recommend those who need that type of lecture style to do a post bacc, as you can ask questions and get concrete answers from your professors. That is missing in MCAT prep of any kind. The MCAT is basically just a big reading test that tests your comprehension on long winded passages using concepts you learned 2-5 years ago.

Add to the fact that just because you get a 502 on the MCAT after 3 times doesn't automatically get you into a school, a postbacc with a linkage seems like a reasonable idea. What happens if OP takes a year off, studies MCAT, get a 502 and gets waitlisted? What if he studies and gets a 495?

If he does poorly on the MCAT, he is out a few hundred dollars. If he does poorly in a postbacc, he's out tens of thousands of dollars. You can do a lot with your life in a year of studying for the MCAT- get a job, enjoy time with friends and family, etc,- but with a postbacc, your life is 95% study, so that's also a year of time blown. If you can't study for an entire year and do well on the MCAT, chances are you couldn't survive in medical school or pass the boards anyway, so OP is potentially saving themselves hundreds of thousands of dollars and years of wasted time. Step 1 makes the MCAT look like a ****ing joke, and I'm not exaggerating when I say that. I'd take the MCAT a dozen times a year apart before I'd take Step 1 again, it's the MCQ equivalent of hell.

 

[Mad Jack]

Essentially, what I'm advocating for a is a low penalty, moderate risk of failure, high reward strategy, while you are advocating a very high penalty, moderate risk of failure, high reward strategy. It's really up to OP what they're comfortable with.

 

[IslandStyle808]

No, but some post bacc will accept a student if they have a very low (490s) MCAT if they maintain a certain GPA in the program. See VCOM and LECOM.

I will say this right now, pretty much all the people I knew enter programs with the same stipulation you mentioned. If they maintain a certain GPA and had a certain MCAT, they would get into the program automatically. Alas it ended up being harder than advertise and even the truths of the programs hidden from applicants. Nearly half of the people in these programs fail and rack up some serious debt.

Yes, there are a few programs that go take the majority of their students. However, more often than not I have seen multiple people make dumb choices when it comes to these programs. So I'd rather tell them to improve their GPA or MCAT than tell them to do their research on these programs (because I'm pretty sure they would make the wrong choices).

 

[GypsyHummus]

I mean, it's essentially a carribean program but instead of 250k it's like 30-40k. I would rather people do a link post bacc than the carribean.

I understand where your coming from tho

I will say this right now, pretty much all the people I knew enter programs with the same stipulation you mentioned. If they maintain a certain GPA and had a certain MCAT, they would get into the program automatically. Alas it ended up being harder than advertise and even the truths of the programs hidden from applicants. Nearly half of the people in these programs fail and rack up some serious debt.

Yes, there are a few programs that go take the majority of their students. However, more often than not I have seen multiple people make dumb choices when it comes to these programs. So I'd rather tell them to improve their GPA or MCAT than tell them to do their research on these programs (because I'm pretty sure they would make the wrong choices).

 

[GypsyHummus]

This would be his third time taking it however. At some point u gotta stop chasing a dragon.

I recommend swallowing his/her pride and giving a go at podiatry schools. You can get into several lower tiered schools with a 490 and above 3.0 GPA. The content isn't any easier (take classes with DO students), but the boards are pass fail.

Plus, a post bacc will prep a student for 1st year and make it a breeze.

Essentially, what I'm advocating for a is a low penalty, moderate risk of failure, high reward strategy, while you are advocating a very high penalty, moderate risk of failure, high reward strategy. It's really up to OP what they're comfortable with.

 

[CornellHumDevNeuro]

Again thanks for the replies, but I am not going to podiatry school because of this barrier called the MCAT. I have been in touch with an in-person tutor and I am willing to spend the money for their services. That may be the way to go. The first times I took the test I studied on my own - and honestly did not have the greatest idea how to study for the exam efficiently. I am also weighing the costs/benefits surrounding postbacc programs. Leaning towards one on one tutoring for the MCAT though.

I will not pursue a career that I have zero interest in because of the MCAT. I want to become a doctor and will become a doctor. Among all the other barriers that I had to face to get to where I am now I could of given up a long time ago, but I have not.

 

[Peach Newport]

Essentially, what I'm advocating for a is a low penalty, moderate risk of failure, high reward strategy, while you are advocating a very high penalty, moderate risk of failure, high reward strategy. It's really up to OP what they're comfortable with.

THANK YOU.

You've been saying exactly what I've been saying on these forums for the last few months - SMPs are really not as good of an idea as SDN says they are.

I got to one of the few medical schools with an SMP with guaranteed acceptance (Touro NY) and I've seen too many students get chewed up and spit out by a super expensive program that essentially kills their chances for med school.

Like you said, SMPs are extremely high risk (much more so than MBS-style programs or post-baccs).

 

[GypsyHummus]

You do know that podiatry is a speciality of medicine I hope? And that as a part of the body, you will eventually do foot exams?

I question people's motives for going into medicine when they say they wouldn't ever consider podiatry or dentistry. The feet and mouth are part of the body. Idk about you, but I'd rather be a podiatrist than not a doctor at all. Sure, it's not my first choice, neither is internal medicine, but if that's the only residency I get into, you bet your bottom dollar I would go.

I think you will change your tune about podiatry if you don't score a 500+ on the MCAT this next time. I hope you get a good score, but don't be so dismissive of a profession like podiatry.

Again thanks for the replies, but I am not going to podiatry school because of this barrier called the MCAT. I have been in touch with an in-person tutor and I am willing to spend the money for their services. That may be the way to go. The first times I took the test I studied on my own - and honestly did not have the greatest idea how to study for the exam efficiently. I am also weighing the costs/benefits surrounding postbacc programs. Leaning towards one on one tutoring for the MCAT though.

I will not pursue a career that I have zero interest in because of the MCAT. I want to become a doctor and will become a doctor. Among all the other barriers that I had to face to get to where I am now I could of given up a long time ago, but I have not.