MD/PhD at current school (same as BS/MS) or PhD at top school

[grassisalwaysgreener]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I am at a crossroads. I'm currently on a track into research and the future looks bleak for a well-paying job.
I'm finishing up my masters at a 3rd tier institution. I applied to many PhD's in pharmacology and basic biomedical sciences and got into some great programs. I also got into my current school's program and was given a scholarship.
My PI works closely with the COM and says I am an excellent candidate to get into the MD/PhD program, WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY BRAND NEW. This program is set up such that current PhD students can enter and current MD students can enter. The overall track for me would be: finish PhD thesis in 2-3 years and enter the program in my last year as PhD. I would tentatively graduate MD/PhD in 6-7 years. All I would need to do is gain acceptance to the med school next cycle (or the one after that).

Benefits include: reduced tuition for the MD portion (think 25k / year). I am already 3 years into a thesis (pretty much a guaranteed project). I will get at least 2-3 first author papers if we continue doing work at this pace. I will be paid just to do research. It's also a VERY competitive stipend.

Cons include: I did my BS here. I'm about to finish my MS here. My lab has no federal funding. There's no GUARANTEE that I will get in. I'll be turning down the top PhD programs in my field.

Another qualm I have is my low undergrad GPA (3.4 overall, 3.4 science). For grad I had a 3.67, presented at a national conference. I will no doubt get 2 first author publications if I stay and some presentations at conferences, as well.

I know if I wanted to do research alone, I would go to the best PhD program. But I think it's a very unsecure job with a lot of effort in relative to the job prospects.

Alternatively, I could do PhD at a great school, then go do MD. Or I could stay here and do it in half the time. Or I could do PhD here and get into another MD program afterwards. The draw to stay here is the price and my family lives 30 minutes away.

 

[PlasticBag]

It sounds like you want to leave your current school and experience something new... How much time would you save by going to your school's PhD program vs. top tier programs, assuming you will eventually go for an MD anyway? I would probably go for the prestigious PhD -- you've been working towards that for a while and it sounds like you enjoy doing research.

 

[grassisalwaysgreener]

I would probably save 3 years. The added benefit of staying is the discounted med school tuition, which comes to 25k per year, instead of 35k.

If I go to a new school, it's a free PhD in 5.5 years (average), but then I'll be applying to med school at the age of 30 and not have the tuition break.

 

[PlasticBag]

You could also consider applying for joint MD/PhD programs this coming cycle, assuming you have most prerequisites ready? This would alleviate the stress of applying to MD schools later on and being potentially "stuck" with a PhD only

 

[Shifty B]

Job security is no reason to do an MD/PhD, or go to medical school at all for that matter. There are plenty of fields which have good job security which don't require 15 year training programs. Talk about a lot of effort...

What you need to assess is if it's really important to you to treat patients as a physician. If that's a key part of your career desires, then you should go to medical school. Any other reason is going to make you very unhappy with your choice 10-12 years from now.

 

[grassisalwaysgreener]

I know I definitely want to do research. I also know I want to be as impactful to human medicine as possible, and basic mouse research doesn't have much draw to me.
I've decided that if I want to do research, the best option is to definitely leave my current institution. UNLESS I use this as a stepping stone to get into a great MSTP program. I just wonder what my prospects of getting in would be. Would it be better to apply to MSTP without getting a PhD? How is it viewed to get PhD and then MD at different schools and not have gone through the MSTP training process?

Again, I am at the end of MS thesis (molecular biology). I have the option to go on to PhD and probably graduate in 2-3 years. Everyone's saying don't do it and I agree at this point unless it gets me to a better program. I don't think I'm competitive enough to get into an MSTP program at this point. I have the option to continue doing research and getting paid for it. I could build upon my MS thesis. Getting paid is only an option if I join the PhD program

 

[Fencer]

If you pursue the PhD at your current institution, you won't be eligible for funded MD/PhD (or MSTP) programs. You certainly could pursue the MD (after your PhD) but it won't be funded. You should apply this cycle. PM me if you want to discuss details.

 

[Neuronix]

My PI works closely with the COM and says I am an excellent candidate to get into the MD/PhD program, WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY BRAND NEW. This program is set up such that current PhD students can enter and current MD students can enter. The overall track for me would be: finish PhD thesis in 2-3 years and enter the program in my last year as PhD. I would tentatively graduate MD/PhD in 6-7 years. All I would need to do is gain acceptance to the med school next cycle (or the one after that).

I'm not at all opposed to this pathway. But make sure a few things are clear:
1. You need to start as an MD/PhD student, not starting the PhD and "transferring" later. Once you start that PhD, you can't switch into an MD/PhD program elsewhere. You don't want to be in a position where the MD/PhD program doesn't materialize for whatever reason, and you're stuck in the PhD program.

2. It should be fully funded like the vast majority of programs. I.e. you should be getting 25k/year with no debt for every year in the program. If they aren't offering you that, then they are hacking together the program and I wouldn't consider it a "real" MD/PhD program. Now there are some rare MD/PhD students out there who pay for their MDs while in the combined program, and my hat goes off to them, but I would not go into debt for the degree if you can help it. If this program puts you in minimal debt, then it's still considerable.

Cons include: I did my BS here. I'm about to finish my MS here. My lab has no federal funding. There's no GUARANTEE that I will get in. I'll be turning down the top PhD programs in my field.

For MD/PhD these things don't matter that much. You should graduate quickly, get into a great clinical residency/fellowship (has more to do with your med school performance and step 1 score than anything else) and expect to spend some fellowship and post-fellowship time doing more research. In this regard, getting done quickly now is great.

Another qualm I have is my low undergrad GPA (3.4 overall, 3.4 science).

This is a problem, but it's not a terrible one. You need to crush the MCAT.

Or I could do PhD here and get into another MD program afterwards. The draw to stay here is the price and my family lives 30 minutes away.

You could consider that but you're going to pay full price for the MD. Also, for MD training you should expect to go anywhere in the country for med school, residency, fellowship, and jobs. There is no location security whatsoever in academic medicine. You have to accept that now, not later.

You're at a crossroads. You need to decide whether you want to go to med school. MD/PhD is a very different training pathway than PhD. If you want to go to med school, set yourself on it, and apply MD/PhD. Don't put off this decision.

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

Alternatively, I could do PhD at a great school, then go do MD. Or I could stay here and do it in half the time. Or I could do PhD here and get into another MD program afterwards. The draw to stay here is the price and my family lives 30 minutes away.

Of all the things you listed, this is the one I would most strongly caution against. It's basically the path I took, except I didn't mean to have my path turn out that way from the start.

I don't think taking the PhD then MD path really affected my residency prospects, since I basically interviewed everywhere I wanted and then I matched to my #1 ranked program. And I don't really think it's going to affect my career prospects further down the line. The biggest problem with this plan is the money, but it's a big problem. Honestly, if not for the money I'd be fine with my path--I got to spend a lot more time working on my PhD than the MD/PhD students I've known, so I published a lot more. I also got to do some fun things between PhD and MD--like teaching college for a year, and having some time when I was "funemployed."

But the debt is a real problem. Doing PhD then MD is much longer than a combined MD/PhD, yet costs just as much as any other unfunded MD, meanwhile you're not saving for retirement for an extra few years (which makes a big impact on your retirement savings due to compound interest) and you start earning your full potential much later in life.

As I see it, you need to figure out whether you really need an MD for your future dream career, and separately whether you really ned a PhD for your dream career. If you only need just one, only pursue that. If you need both, then pursue MD/PhD, but accept MD-only but don't accept PhD only, because it's easier to go from MD to a PhD-like career than the other way around.

 

[grassisalwaysgreener]

I'm not at all opposed to this pathway. But make sure a few things are clear:
1. You need to start as an MD/PhD student, not starting the PhD and "transferring" later. Once you start that PhD, you can't switch into an MD/PhD program elsewhere. You don't want to be in a position where the MD/PhD program doesn't materialize for whatever reason, and you're stuck in the PhD program.

2. It should be fully funded like the vast majority of programs. I.e. you should be getting 25k/year with no debt for every year in the program. If they aren't offering you that, then they are hacking together the program and I wouldn't consider it a "real" MD/PhD program. Now there are some rare MD/PhD students out there who pay for their MDs while in the combined program, and my hat goes off to them, but I would not go into debt for the degree if you can help it. If this program puts you in minimal debt, then it's still considerable.



For MD/PhD these things don't matter that much. You should graduate quickly, get into a great clinical residency/fellowship (has more to do with your med school performance and step 1 score than anything else) and expect to spend some fellowship and post-fellowship time doing more research. In this regard, getting done quickly now is great.



This is a problem, but it's not a terrible one. You need to crush the MCAT.



You could consider that but you're going to pay full price for the MD. Also, for MD training you should expect to go anywhere in the country for med school, residency, fellowship, and jobs. There is no location security whatsoever in academic medicine. You have to accept that now, not later.

You're at a crossroads. You need to decide whether you want to go to med school. MD/PhD is a very different training pathway than PhD. If you want to go to med school, set yourself on it, and apply MD/PhD. Don't put off this decision.

1. I applied for PhD this cycle and got admitted. I am graduating masters now and would transition to PhD, then get accepted to the MD/PhD program next cycle (if I take the MCAT asap).

2. This is not a fully funded program. The program gives discounted medical school tuition and a stipend increase for the PhD years. I would not see the stipend increase, but I got a scholarship that puts my stipend above most grad schools. We are not a funded lab. I have had to teach lab to undergrads to make my measly stipend and do research 40+ hours per week. My boss is nudging me to stay and get into MD/PhD next year. I am basically free man-hours for him and the most experienced person in the lab.

The program is pretty flexible in that MD students can transfer and PhD students can transfer. If a senior PhD student transfers, they will just enter the Med school years after completing PhD. It's not a "real" MSTP program and it's brand new, but it's potentially discounted med school tuition. As you said, I could not enter another MSTP program after starting PhD.

I called some of the PhD programs I was admitted into and they said that they would consider first year PhD students for their MSTP programs. If I were to do this, it means choosing the school I want NOW and going for it 100%, cause there's no way I can go to other schools' interviews if I start a program in fall.

At this point, I would need to put full force into studying for the MCAT, take it by June, and get as many pubs out as possible to be competitive. I am hoping I can get one first author pub out on my ms thesis and maybe another one on a side project.

It seems if I want to have the best chance of getting into an MSTP program, I need to pass up all the PhD offers and take this year off for applications. I may even need to apply cycle after next to prepare for the MCAT. I've been in a biomedical sciences ms program with PhD level classes in molecular biology. My genetics, organic chem, gen chem, bio, and psych will be severely lacking.

 

[haanman]

The MD/PhD program at your current institution doesn't sound like a good deal. You should absolutely not be going into debt for this. And as Neuronix mentioned, there are risks if the MD/PhD transition doesn't pan out next year, for whatever reason.

What you need to assess is if it's really important to you to treat patients as a physician. If that's a key part of your career desires, then you should go to medical school. Any other reason is going to make you very unhappy with your choice 10-12 years from now.

You're at a crossroads. You need to decide whether you want to go to med school. MD/PhD is a very different training pathway than PhD. If you want to go to med school, set yourself on it, and apply MD/PhD. Don't put off this decision.

Completely agree. Do you want to see patients, and do you have enough clinical experience to be sure? If so, apply broadly to MD/PhD programs as soon as you're able. If not, choose the PhD program that seems like the best fit for you and the best preparation for the career you do want.

 

[bd4727]

2. It should be fully funded like the vast majority of programs. I.e. you should be getting 25k/year with no debt for every year in the program. If they aren't offering you that, then they are hacking together the program and I wouldn't consider it a "real" MD/PhD program. Now there are some rare MD/PhD students out there who pay for their MDs while in the combined program, and my hat goes off to them, but I would not go into debt for the degree if you can help it. If this program puts you in minimal debt, then it's still considerable.

Agreed. Don't do the program if it costs you a dime.