MD/PhD Chances

[soso55]

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Hi all,

I just wanted to ask the community about my competitiveness for MSTPs.

Chemistry major with biology minor in a very reputable, but not famous program. Graduating in May 2018.

cGPA: 3.84
sGPA: 3.82
MCAT: taking in May

Research: Will have ~1500 hours (two undergraduate labs, NSF REU). Unfortunately, it seems unlikely I get a publication, but there is a chance. I know that pubs aren't required. I'm planning on taking a gap year to do research at some post bacc program (currently in the process of applying). I have two published DNA sequences from high school, but I'm not sure if I can put that on my app. I've presented posters at several symposiums at my college. Additionally, I'm presenting at the National ACS conference, and maybe two other regional conferences.

Clinical: Certified EMT. Will have ~300 hours volunteering for my school's squad. Planning on volunteering as an EMT during my gap year. I do not have any shadowing hours from college. I have ~300 from high school. Is that good enough or should I try to get more shadowing before I apply? Is this enough clinical exposure to apply just MD?

ECs: Laboratory Technician for the Chemistry Departmental (paid). Stand by EMT for Club Sports Games (paid). President of the Debate Club (also compete fairly often). Part of some honor societies, but not really involved with them. No significant non-clinical volunteering. Cooling and writing, both of which I've invented significant amounts of time into.

Some questions I have:
I'm actually graduating a year early, but would that make a difference to adcoms? Should I do post bacc research for 1 or 2 years? Am I competitive for MSTP programs or should I focus on other MD/PhD programs? What MCAT score should I shoot for? Do people generally reach out to PIs at universities before applying?

Thank you!

 

[shadow522]

I don't think it is necessary to contact PIs before applying to programs. But if you happen to be in the same city as a program that you would like to apply to, I highly recommend contacting the MSTP program director beforehand and asking for more information about the program. I don't think that can hurt (unless you somehow bomb the meeting and come off super arrogant/make a terrible impression). I did this, and feel that it ended up being like a pre-interview that went well and helped me not only get an II, but eventually get accepted at that particular institution.

Your GPA seems in range. For MCAT, I suggest shooting for at least 90% or higher. 514+ is ideal. My MCAT was a few percentage lower than that and I still got accepted to several MSTPs (and come from a state public university), but I also have 7 publications, so I think the pubs offset my lower MCAT. (both my cGPA and sGPA are somewhere around 3.90).

Your ECs seem fine. Among the ones you listed, how invested are you in those activities? AMCAS has 15 slots for awards/activities/conferences, etc. so keep that in mind. I had one major non-clinical EC that has still played a significant role in shaping my clinical interests. (for you, that may be sports => ortho interests?)

Although the clinical hours you have are good, I would suggest continuing to shadow during your gap year(s) and aim for diversity of clinical experience. I had clinical hours in many diverse areas and wanted to make sure that my clinical hours were competitive if adcoms viewed me as both an MSTP and MD-only applicant. If you can "prove" your interest medicine and demonstrate effort to explore diverse areas, it can only help your application (plus you seem to have the time to do that).

As for applying after 1 year of postbacc vs 2 years, I have talked to PDs who mentioned that age is one of the factors that they discussed when considering applicants. But ultimately, they want to make sure the candidates they accept are mature. If you present maturely, your age shouldn't matter. (Plenty of MSTP applicants start the program without any gap years). The quality of your research experience before the application cycle will matter more. If you can demonstrate commitment and ability to develop a project within 1 year, then applying at that time makes sense. But if it will take 2 years, then that may be better (since it sounds like you would be starting your postbacc in Summer/Fall 2018 and are deciding between applying June 2018 vs June 2019). There are definitely people who have successfully applied for MD/PhD programs with a # of research hrs similar to you; but I don't know about info as to the ranking of programs and correlation to research hours. Applying with 1 yr post bacc already behind you (in June 2019) will give you more research projects to discuss in your application. (If your undergrad research experiences were all in the same lab then I would suggest applying during the June 2018 cycle, bc the undergrad experience would already demonstrate continuity).

 

[mega_]

I would advise to shadow an MD/PhD as it will help you to:
1. Get more shadowing hours outside of high-school
2. Help to answer question why MD/PhD both on paper and during interview
Also, get some community-based volunteering maybe
1. MSTP schools have like 70%+ of applicants with non-clinical volunteering
2. Try something that make you passionate (e.g. during EMT service you felt deeply sorry for drug users and enrolled in social service for recovering addicts)

 

[Melose]

I would focus on increasing your research experience, as 1500 hours seems low to me (I personally had over 5000). You might find it difficult to get a lab tech experience in a good lab for just 1 year; most PI’s will require two, especially since you will be interviewing for Md/PhD programs in the fall/winter of your application cycle! Lastly, during your stint as a lab tech, it might be a good idea for shadow a bit more; in fact, my total shadowing hours were 50, the spring that I applied.

Hope this helps!

Melose

 

[Fencer]

You don't need more shadowing, except if shadowing a MD/PhD physician-scientist. You do need more research laboratory experience, and your essays need to show that commitment. Hopefully, you do well in the MCAT...
PM me if you need

 

[soso55]

Thank you everyone for the advice! So my plan going forward is to do a lot more research for a gap year (probably two), get some shadowing, some non-clinical volunteering, and kill the MCAT.

 

[soso55]

I would focus on increasing your research experience, as 1500 hours seems low to me (I personally had over 5000). You might find it difficult to get a lab tech experience in a good lab for just 1 year; most PI’s will require two, especially since you will be interviewing for Md/PhD programs in the fall/winter of your application cycle! Lastly, during your stint as a lab tech, it might be a good idea for shadow a bit more; in fact, my total shadowing hours were 50, the spring that I applied.

Hope this helps!

Melose

Would you recommend working as a lab tech or a formal post bacc research program? I am currently applying to both.

 

[Fencer]

What matters is the quality of the research experience and whether you are driving a research project by the end of this portion of your training, not the title... I have seen applicants with either title, succeed and/or fail.

 

[shadow522]

Would you recommend working as a lab tech or a formal post bacc research program? I am currently applying to both.

if you can get in a formal postbacc like NIH, then formal postbacc is definitely better than lab tech position in my opinion. The exception is if the lab tech position is with a very well known PI in your field. I think it makes a difference (I know a girl whos at stanford mstp, solid applicant but not amazing in my opinion and from a different cycle and im pretty sure her LOR from her very well known PI in ALS research got stanford to bother looking at her application).

TL;DR
in order of value for your application, i would suggest:
1. NIH postbacc or lab tech in well known PI's lab (equivalent in my view)
2. lab tech