MD/PhD Funding

[Dr. Breyean]

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I know all the MSTP schools pay tuition and provide a stipend (correct?), but from what I understand there some non-MSTP schools that do the same. How can I find which ones without going to every school's website? Does someone else already have this list?

Thanks!

 

[mdphdhopeful]

http://www.nigms.nih.gov/Training/Mechanisms/NRSA/InstPredoc/PredocInst-MSTP.htm

 

[Dr. Breyean]

http://www.nigms.nih.gov/Training/Mechanisms/NRSA/InstPredoc/PredocInst-MSTP.htm

That's just a list of MSTP schools...

 

[physicsnerd42]

There aren't very many non-MSTP funded schools that can afford to pay stipends at the same level of MSTPs and don't make you pay tuition. I know Dartmouth fully funds medical and graduate school and pays stipends at about the same level of MSTPs, but that's just because I'm an MD/PhD student there.

 

[xanthines]

It looks like you're gonna have to call every school. Might as well. I mean, do you really want make decisions like this based on an anonymous message board? 🙂 Things could be out of date or just plain wrong.

For what it's worth, I believe the Medical College of GA still pays for tuition and stipend for all years. GA residency is not a problem for MD/PhD applicants.

-X

I know all the MSTP schools pay tuition and provide a stipend (correct?), but from what I understand there some non-MSTP schools that do the same. How can I find which ones without going to every school's website? Does someone else already have this list?

Thanks!

 

[ClarinetGeek]

Hm....let's see if I remember correctly from my interviews...

I know that Medical College of Wisconsin and University of Texas-Medical Branch provide full funding just like an MSTP (tuition + stipend). I also think that Loyola-Chicago does as well, but I cannot fulling confirm that b/c I didn't interview there. Also, I think that Penn State also provides full funding.

 

[Gfunk6]

Keep in mind that if you drop out of a fully-funded non-MSTP you are obligated to pay back everything. If you drop an MSTP, you owe nothing.

 

[Maebea]

That's just a list of MSTP schools...

Here is the AAMC link to all MD-PhD programs: http://www.aamc.org/research/dbr/mdphd/programs.htm

You will have to go through them all, as there is no compilation of programs that offer full funding.

 

[OddNath]

I also think that Loyola-Chicago does as well, but I cannot fulling confirm that b/c I didn't interview there. Also, I think that Penn State also provides full funding.

Loyola-Chicago does not provide a full stipend for the entire program. It's something like, you need to stay above 50%-ile in all your 1st and 2nd year exams, *then* they'll start paying you a stipend. Before that, they'll waive tuition but not pay you anything.

UT-Houston is fully funded! From what I remember, I think Drexel is too. To the OP: best would be to visit the website of each school you're interested in (I personally wouldn't want to make a long list of phone calls for this purpose).

 

[MrMunkily]

SUNY Upstate is fully funded with a 20K Stipend as of last year.

 

[PBandJ]

UMDNJ Robert Wood Johnson, Drexel, and Univ of Miami, have full funding for their MD/PhD students as far as I know.

 

[Mr. Tee]

For what it's worth, I believe the Medical College of GA still pays for tuition and stipend for all years.

You are correct. Medical College of Georgia has a fully-funded MD/PhD program. They only acccept 4 each year.

 

[MuDPhuDShane]

Kansas is a non-MSTP program and provides a full tuition waiver and fairly competitive stipend ($21,700 this year).

 

[Wizard of Oz]

Keep in mind that if you drop out of a fully-funded non-MSTP you are obligated to pay back everything. If you drop an MSTP, you owe nothing.

This is not necessarily true. Some schools simply waive tuition rather than charge you for it and then credit you through a scholarship fund. In those cases, there is no charge to give back. Stipends during the PhD phase are typically paid by specific faculty grants, so as long as you actually showed up to work during that time, there is no obligation to pay it back.

The NIH-funded MSTP is a fairly new development. I think only 17 schools had NIH-funded spots in 2000, and some current schools have a mix between NIH and privately-funded spots. Many schools have had programs in place since the turn of the century and have been able to fund them entirely privately or through alumni donations.

Non-NIH funded programs tend to have a very limited amount of students, but I know plenty of people who graduated from them and matched Ivy League residencies. Once you actually get admitted to a program that has the money guaranteed for you in some way, the distinction between an NIH-funded MSTP and a "non-MSTP MD/PhD" exists only in myth.

 

[Neuronix]

This is not necessarily true. Some schools simply waive tuition rather than charge you for it and then credit you through a scholarship fund. In those cases, there is no charge to give back.
...

Once you actually get admitted to a program that has the money guaranteed for you in some way, the distinction between an NIH-funded MSTP and a "non-MSTP MD/PhD" exists only in myth.

I applied to several non-MSTP MD/PhD programs and every one I was accepted to wanted a contract signed designating my willingness to pay back the medical school tuition if I dropped the MD/PhD program. Your post seems to twist some schools into a generalization. I would say this point of payback, in my experience true for more non-MSTPs than not, makes a pretty big distinction between MSTP and non-MSTP.

PS: Thomas Jefferson has a fully-funded MD/PhD program, as does the University of Maryland. In general, the program needs to have a fully-funded program before they have a chance at getting the MSTP grant.

 

[Maebea]

The NIH-funded MSTP is a fairly new development. I think only 17 schools had NIH-funded spots in 2000, and some current schools have a mix between NIH and privately-funded spots. Many schools have had programs in place since the turn of the century and have been able to fund them entirely privately or through alumni donations.

Non-NIH funded programs tend to have a very limited amount of students, but I know plenty of people who graduated from them and matched Ivy League residencies. Once you actually get admitted to a program that has the money guaranteed for you in some way, the distinction between an NIH-funded MSTP and a "non-MSTP MD/PhD" exists only in myth.

The NIH-funded MSTP has been around since 1964. That year, the NIH funded Einstein, NYU and Northwestern. In 2000, there were 40 NIH-funded MSTPs.

I would agree that too much is made of the distinction between MSTP and non-MSTP. There is a difference, but I do not think that it really is all that significant. As Oz points out, grads of non-MSTPs go to good residencies. (Though I would extend "good" beyond the Ivy League; from what I hear, UCSF, Hopkins, Stanford, Duke, UCLA, WashU, Chicago, Baylor, etc. also have decent residency programs.)

 

[Gfunk6]

Wowzers! I have to agree w/ Neuronix and Maebea. Though what you posted has some truths in it, it is highly misleading.

This is not necessarily true. Some schools simply waive tuition rather than charge you for it and then credit you through a scholarship fund.

While it is true that many NIH-funded MSTPs (a redundant statement really, all MSTPs are, by definition, federally funded) fund their programs through a mix of private, public, and NIH funds, the payback policy is the the same.

If a program violates NIH policy by forcing a MSTP drop-out to pay back their stipend, then they will lose accredidation and funding, simple as that.

The rule is there for a very good reason. An MSTP is a long, difficult, drawn-out process and one never knows what fate will have in store for them over the next 7-9 years. People should NEVER be penalized for dropping out, IMO.

Non-MSTPs face a different reality. Their programs are funded 100% by private/state funds. They are putting up their own money and do not have an obligation to the NIH, so you must pay them back. Since you go in with this understanding, they are not misleading applicants.

The NIH-funded MSTP is a fairly new development. I think only 17 schools had NIH-funded spots in 2000, and some current schools have a mix between NIH and privately-funded spots.

As Maebea said, NIH-funded MSTPs have been around for more than four decades.

Once you actually get admitted to a program that has the money guaranteed for you in some way, the distinction between an NIH-funded MSTP and a "non-MSTP MD/PhD" exists only in myth.

This is a loaded statement. No doubt that someone who undergoes the rigors of an MD/PhD program and completes it is most likely highly qualifed to enter academic medicine.

But MD/PhD programs who have MSTP status have it for a reason. And it's not b/c of "prestige." Schools who apply to for MSTP status have to show many things (and show them again when it comes time for renewal) including:

1. High retention of students
2. Show that grads actually GO into academic medicine
3. Have a good breadth and depth of graduate education
4. Have a strong formalized MSTP combining grad and med school -- integrating the two well w/ coursework and research seminars
5. Strong minority recruitment
6. Strong, well-funded faculty
7. A long and well-established MD/PhD program

etc, etc, etc.

If you do not get into an MSTP, then going to a full-funded MD/PhD program is a good option. However, barring personal preference I would always choose an MSTP over a non-MSTP.

 

[MrMunkily]

Has an MSTP school ever lost their MSTP grant?

(I'm not counting the total suspension of funding that happened in the 70's)

 

[Gfunk6]

Has an MSTP school ever lost their MSTP grant?

(I'm not counting the total suspension of funding that happened in the 70's)

Absolutely. The # of total funded MSTP slots NIH can pay for is quite finite. Every few years certain programs gain/lose a number of slots while other programs lose funding and some gain it. The process is fairly dynamic as the auditing process is very hard-core.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Has an MSTP school ever lost their MSTP grant?

(I'm not counting the total suspension of funding that happened in the 70's)

Yes, this has happened. In the late 90's, Pitt and UVA lost their MSTP funding. However, they are back on the MSTP map as they are back on the NIH MSTP program grant.

As Gfunk said, the # of MSTP spots at various institutions fluctuates. Programs are generally reviewed by NIH site visits every several years (every 5 yrs maybe?).

 

[Sulfinator]

Keep in mind that if you drop out of a fully-funded non-MSTP you are obligated to pay back everything. If you drop an MSTP, you owe nothing.

That's not true in my case. I'm a 5th year MD/PhD student at the University of Oklahoma. Our program is funded by a grant from the Presbyterian Health Foundation and not NIH (not yet, anyway). We do not have a "repayment clause."

 

[Wizard of Oz]

Wowzers! I have to agree w/ Neuronix and Maebea. Though what you posted has some truths in it, it is highly misleading.

If a program violates NIH policy by forcing a MSTP drop-out to pay back their stipend, then they will lose accredidation and funding, simple as that.

As Maebea said, NIH-funded MSTPs have been around for more than four decades.

Indeed I would consider 40 years to be quite recent given that medical schools have been around much much longer than that. What I am trying to emphasize, though, is the overall expansion of them, both in the number of schools with them and the number of slots per school. When I actually applied in 2000, there were not that many places that had five or more fully-funded MSTP slots.

It used to be that not many folks were interested in them because of the time commitment and lack of advertising. Nowadays we have students who gun for those slots early in their academic careers for the scholarship alone.

If you look at Sulfinator's school (a non-MSTP with a no payback rule according to him/her), I think that he had less than 5 grads in ALL of the years leading up to his/her admission, but I checked their website, it looks like they have 20 or so active nowadays.