MD-PhD: X vs Y

[mstptobeyay]

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Hi All,

Sorry for being very vague, but I can try my best to clarify without giving too much away. I am trying to decide between two MD-PhD programs. Both are great programs that have extensive research opportunities and match really well.

School X
Pros

• Has many big name PIs that I am very interested in working with
• I like the surrounding area more/better for my lifestyle

Cons

• Overall a younger program, which is the major con for me. I am worried that there are more kinks in the curriculum that still need to be worked out.
• Campus does not look very nice??
• Very far away from my support system

School Y
Pros

• Closer to friends and family
• More stablished program
• I like the campus more/more familiar with the environment

Cons

• Weather is less ideal for me, but not a dealbreaker
• The curriculum has several very specific focuses that I might not care about?
• Less stipend but also lower cost of living I guess

Summary: X is a smaller program but very strong in my field of interest. Y is a more established program and also strong in my field of interest, but not as strong as X. I think overall Y is better but X might give me better connections/research opportunities??

 

[wondervisions]

School Y. There's no telling how your interests will change throughout M1 and M2- most people pivot at least slightly. The other stuff is more important to your success than the specific research strengths of a school. Your real task in graduate school is to learn the tools and skillset you need to be an independent scientist, not necessarily carve out your niche in one specific field.

 

[proudofmykids]

Hi All,

Sorry for being very vague, but I can try my best to clarify without giving too much away. I am trying to decide between two MD-PhD programs. Both are great programs that have extensive research opportunities and match really well.

School X
Pros

• Has many big name PIs that I am very interested in working with
• I like the surrounding area more/better for my lifestyle

Cons

• Overall a younger program, which is the major con for me. I am worried that there are more kinks in the curriculum that still need to be worked out.
• Campus does not look very nice??
• Very far away from my support system

School Y
Pros

• Closer to friends and family
• More stablished program
• I like the campus more/more familiar with the environment

Cons

• Weather is less ideal for me, but not a dealbreaker
• The curriculum has several very specific focuses that I might not care about?
• Less stipend but also lower cost of living I guess

Summary: X is a smaller program but very strong in my field of interest. Y is a more established program and also strong in my field of interest, but not as strong as X. I think overall Y is better but X might give me better connections/research opportunities??

If in fact you would be working with big name PIs in he specialty area of residency you want to do, then I would say X, since big name PIs will help with LORs for residency more so than program reputation or newness.

 

[wondervisions]

If in fact you would be working with big name PIs in he specialty area of residency you want to do, then I would say X, since big name PIs will help with LORs for residency more so than program reputation or newness.

Sometimes the "big name" PIs are worse mentors for early career scientists. I wouldn't worry about name recognition or prestige at this stage.

 

[ingobingo]

School X
Pros

• Has many big name PIs that I am very interested in working with
• I like the surrounding area more/better for my lifestyle

Cons

• Overall a younger program, which is the major con for me. I am worried that there are more kinks in the curriculum that still need to be worked out.
• Campus does not look very nice??
• Very far away from my support system

School Y
Pros

• Closer to friends and family
• More stablished program
• I like the campus more/more familiar with the environment

Cons

• Weather is less ideal for me, but not a dealbreaker
• The curriculum has several very specific focuses that I might not care about?
• Less stipend but also lower cost of living I guess

A few questions: Can you provide a little more detail as what what you mean by the curriculum having very specific focuses that you might not care about (and is this in relation to the MD or the PhD portion of your training)? How important is your support system for you/is it important for you to have physical access to your support system (as opposed to a more virtual setting)? Does School Y have at least a few PIs that you would want to work with? I wouldn't worry too much about stipends unless you're talking about big cities where CoL is absurd (i.e. SF).

Edit: Re: PIs - a well-known PI can really help with future pursuits since the reputation is there, but as previous posters noted they tend to be more hands-off in their approach to mentorship so you need to be very motivated

 

[Orims]

Just a warning, big name PIs can be very hands off and you might only meet them a few times a year. Unless you are a very motivated and self-driven student, this can be something difficult to deal with. A few of my graduate school friends joined Nobel laureate labs and over half of them have had a rough time due to their PIs being very hands off.

 

[wondervisions]

Just a warning, big name PIs can be very hands off and you might only meet them a few times a year. Unless you are a very motivated and self-driven student, this can be something difficult to deal with. A few of my graduate school friends joined Nobel laureate labs and over half of them have had a rough time due to their PIs being very hands off.

Exactly. In the training phase especially, you really want someone who will be a mentor and an advocate, not just a name on a letterhead. I often feel that younger PIs with smaller labs are better for PhD students for this reason.

 

[deleted1065184]

Exactly. In the training phase especially, you really want someone who will be a mentor and an advocate, not just a name on a letterhead. I often feel that younger PIs with smaller labs are better for PhD students for this reason.

Depends on how young/new, tbh. Younger PIs with smaller labs have cons too. While larger PIs are often not around as much, they usually have a lab structure that includes postdocs and senior scientists who can and will give graduate students hands-on mentorship. And the fact that they're well-established and already successful means graduate students are more likely to get publications.

Also, being in the lab of a younger PI can make it more difficult to be competitive for grants, as a strong previous publication history is a decent indicator that their money won't go to waste (in many cases, trainees have to find a co-PI for the grant in order to have a reasonable chance at getting it). One last thing to consider is that many new PIs are hands-on in a micromanaging type of way due to their lack of tenure and need to get publications as soon as possible. The extreme stress of being a new PI very frequently is taken out on trainees. And because it is a new lab, you have no idea whether or not this is temporary or if it is the way the PI will continue to be throughout their career. With more established PIs, you can at least speak to prior trainees to see what you'd be getting yourself into.

 

[wondervisions]

Depends on how young/new, tbh. Younger PIs with smaller labs have cons too. While larger PIs are often not around as much, they usually have a lab structure that includes postdocs and senior scientists who can and will give graduate students hands-on mentorship. And the fact that they're well-established and already successful means graduate students are more likely to get publications.

Also, being in the lab of a younger PI can make it more difficult to be competitive for grants, as a strong previous publication history is a decent indicator that their money won't go to waste (in many cases, trainees have to find a co-PI for the grant in order to have a reasonable chance at getting it). One last thing to consider is that many new PIs are hands-on in a micromanaging type of way due to their lack of tenure and need to get publications as soon as possible. The extreme stress of being a new PI very frequently is taken out on trainees. And because it is a new lab, you have no idea whether or not this is temporary or if it is the way the PI will continue to be throughout their career. With more established PIs, you can at least speak to prior trainees to see what you'd be getting yourself into.

You're absolutely correct, I just meant more in terms of generalities. A brand new PI might not be established enough, but at the same time a Nobel laureate might be resting on their laurels at this point in their career.

 

[deleted1065184]

You're absolutely correct, I just meant more in terms of generalities. A brand new PI might not be established enough, but at the same time a Nobel laureate might be resting on their laurels at this point in their career.

Yeah very true, from personal experience I've found that the best PIs to work with tend to be mid-career PIs who have recently achieved tenure (associate) and still publish a lot. This is partially for the reasons listed above, but also because you want to have somebody more senior as your thesis chair for checks and balances, if possible (can't find that if you join the lab of a top dog lol). And within that group, just gotta ask around to see which lab culture is the best personal fit.

 

[mstptobeyay]

A few questions: Can you provide a little more detail as what what you mean by the curriculum having very specific focuses that you might not care about (and is this in relation to the MD or the PhD portion of your training)? How important is your support system for you/is it important for you to have physical access to your support system (as opposed to a more virtual setting)? Does School Y have at least a few PIs that you would want to work with? I wouldn't worry too much about stipends unless you're talking about big cities where CoL is absurd (i.e. SF).

Edit: Re: PIs - a well-known PI can really help with future pursuits since the reputation is there, but as previous posters noted they tend to be more hands-off in their approach to mentorship so you need to be very motivated

The school emphasizes more on global health, environmental health, and stuffs like that for the MD part. I guess it's not really a con. I kind of just listed it just so I have something to think about lol

Y has many PIs that I would be happy to work with, and I think it would be nice to be close to my support system.

 

[mstptobeyay]

Thank you all so much! This discussion is also going to greatly benefit me when I consider different mentors in the near future. After getting your input, I think I am leaning even more towards Y!