MD/PhD?

[Starvin Marvin]

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I want to go into academic medicine and do research as well as practice medicine (I know... somewhat unrealistic trying to juggle both) so my goal was to get into md/phd programs (or better yet MSTP). However, I've looked at profiles of current students at several different programs, and I'm not sure I have the same credentials.

What do you guys think my chances are of getting into a joint degree program?
- 36 MCAT, ~3.75 GPA, 3.8 BCPM
- two summers research experience but neither was very in-depth and no publications
- some decent hospital experiences including work in Germany

I don't think I want to waste my time and money going for something that's unrealistic. I'm now leaning at going for MD only and seeing what happens from there.

 

[hnbui]

I want to go into academic medicine and do research as well as practice medicine (I know... somewhat unrealistic trying to juggle both) so my goal was to get into md/phd programs (or better yet MSTP). However, I've looked at profiles of current students at several different programs, and I'm not sure I have the same credentials.

What do you guys think my chances are of getting into a joint degree program?
- 36 MCAT, ~3.75 GPA, 3.8 BCPM
- two summers research experience but neither was very in-depth and no publications
- some decent hospital experiences including work in Germany

I don't think I want to waste my time and money going for something that's unrealistic. I'm now leaning at going for MD only and seeing what happens from there.

what are you unsure about? You have similiar mcat and gpa for those applying to mstp programs.

I think you will get a more informative response if you post in the MSTP forum. Also, you do not need a phd in combination with a md in order to go into academics medicine. Certain specialities allow you to do research; ie.pathology.

 

[SpyPuts]

Your GPA and MCAT score are sufficient to get you into any school. Your research experience sounds well below average for those accepted into the fully-funded MSTP slots, however.

The MSTP programs will look very critically at the fact that you did not pursue research during the school year. MSTP adcoms seek to minimize attrition from the program and the number of graduates entering private practice. It's a long, arduous process to obtain both an MD and PhD., and the lure of private practice claims many of those who complete both. Essentially, each MSTP slot is worth approximately ~300,000 and they are very, very thorough in their selection of applicants. In addition to all of the criteria they apply to MD applicants, they look for sustained, original research projects in which you were the main contributor and, ideally, from which you obtained publishable data.

 

[Gut Shot]

You can do academic medicine in any field with an MD. You can also be a fine, well funded researcher in virtually any field with an MD. A PhD is nice to have, but tough to get, so you should really really REALLY be certain that it is a worthwhile investment of your time, sweat, blood, saliva and bile. And urine.

If you can get into med school, and you're not dead set on doing research in a highly specialized realm of basic science, then you may be best off going straight MD and pursuing research fellowships and/or research-track residency and/or possibly a post-doc. You're right, it's a bear to juggle clinical and research work, but at least you have the option of doing either one as an MD.

My two pennies.

 

[PhDtoDO]

Actually,

...You don't necessarily need to have high GPA/MCAT numbers to do an MD/PhD. But you do need those numbers for the MSTP. I knew quite a few combined degrees who had well below or slightly lower numbers but got into the U of Chicago (tons of MD/PhDs in my lab) but the MSTPs were always high...its a big risk for the govt to give over all that money.

ALSO>...most schools allow regular MD applicants to apply and join a Ph...becoming a PhD/MD after their first year ex...Tulane, where I am.

Furthermore...I was told this by many of the PhD postdocs I worked with in college and the NIH that if you have to choose...do the MD...they can publish more easily...get funding more easily...and get paid more in general! And I know quite a few just MDs doing really cool cool research...some even switch to full-time lab dept chair sort of stuff depending on their field and interests...but most keep at least one foot in the clinic.

You can do academic medicine in any field with an MD. You can also be a fine, well funded researcher in virtually any field with an MD. A PhD is nice to have, but tough to get, so you should really really REALLY be certain that it is a worthwhile investment of your time, sweat, blood, saliva and bile. And urine.

If you can get into med school, and you're not dead set on doing research in a highly specialized realm of basic science, then you may be best off going straight MD and pursuing research fellowships and/or research-track residency and/or possibly a post-doc. You're right, it's a bear to juggle clinical and research work, but at least you have the option of doing either one as an MD.

So my advise is do what you feel...with those numbers you can do it any way you'd like.

Good Luck!

-s

PS Feel free to ask me any specific questions if you'd like. I'm in academic medicine and want to got to med school to CONTINUE my research on the other side (AIDS research).

My two pennies.

 

[45408]

Your research is certainly lacking for an MSTP. The only guy I know personally who got into an MSTP has a ridiculous amount of research - he was in labs for animal behavior/learning, human implicit memory, organic chemistry, and a researcher in a neuroscience lab for over a year at the med school he will be attending this fall. It helps that he's good at pretty much anything he does/tries.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

- two summers research experience but neither was very in-depth and no publications

This is the part of your application that will hurt you significantly, not your grades/MCAT scores. Your numbers are fine.

I would recommend that you get more research experience or do 1-2 years of post-bac research.

Your hospital experience...won't matter much, to be honest.

 

[ntmed]

I want to go into academic medicine ... so my goal was to get into md/phd programs (or better yet MSTP).

If you're interested in IM, another option is the Research Pathway (http://www.abim.org/cert/respath.shtm). The program allows you to have 3 years of protected time to do research and get an advanced degree during residency.

For example, if you do a fellowship like Cards, it will take 7 years (one year longer than normal), broken down as 2 years of IM, 2 years of Cards, and 3 years of protected time for research and to get a PhD.

 

[GiantGiantsFan]

If you're interested in IM, another option is the Research Pathway (http://www.abim.org/cert/respath.shtm). The program allows you to have 3 years of protected time to do research and get an advanced degree during residency.

For example, if you do a fellowship like Cards, it will take 7 years (one year longer than normal), broken down as 2 years of IM, 2 years of Cards, and 3 years of protected time for research and to get a PhD.

What does IM stand for? Also, the link you posted doesn't seem to be working. Could you please tell us more about this Research Pathway? Thanks!...

 

[GiantGiantsFan]

I want to go into academic medicine and do research as well as practice medicine (I know... somewhat unrealistic trying to juggle both) so my goal was to get into md/phd programs (or better yet MSTP). However, I've looked at profiles of current students at several different programs, and I'm not sure I have the same credentials.

What do you guys think my chances are of getting into a joint degree program?
- 36 MCAT, ~3.75 GPA, 3.8 BCPM
- two summers research experience but neither was very in-depth and no publications
- some decent hospital experiences including work in Germany

I don't think I want to waste my time and money going for something that's unrealistic. I'm now leaning at going for MD only and seeing what happens from there.

To the OP: Havarti is right. MDs are fully capable of competing with MD/PhDs and PhDs in almost all areas of biomedical research. They just have to take extra initiative to engage in productive research experiences throughout medical school/training. For more data on this, consult a book called The Crisis in Clinical Research by Edward H. Ahrens. Also, search Pubmed for articles by DG Nathan for advice on how MDs can pursue research careers.

 

[microTAS]

This is the part of your application that will hurt you significantly, not your grades/MCAT scores. Your numbers are fine.

I would recommend that you get more research experience or do 1-2 years of post-bac research.

Your hospital experience...won't matter much, to be honest.

Andy summed it up pretty well. Research is #1, then grades/mcat/other stuff.