MD to MD/PhD

[SilverCat]

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I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but I've been thinking for some time about pursuing MD/ PhD. I didn't apply before because I felt that my app wasn't competitive enough ( 3.7/34, 2 years research with no pubs, posters, etc.), and I had heard many MD/PhD students complain that you're going to be stuck in either research or clinical practice, as it is difficult to do both at the same time.

However, I really want to get a greater exposure to research as a medical student, and I feel that the time given wouldn't be enough to fit in a significant research project without taking a year off. I also hope to be able to have a clinical practice and do research later on in my career, and I feel that a PhD would provide me with better training than an MD ( although I am aware many MDs have labs). I also can't deny that the possibility of graduating debt-free is a strong enticement.

So, at this point, should I forget about this, and just try to find research at my school and/or apply for year- long projects like HHMI? Is it too difficult at this point to transfer into an MD/ PhD program?

Thanks in advance!

 

[SilverCat]

Wow, 182 views and no responses. Come on, I tried searching this, and the last thread was from 2008.

Pretty please??

 

[gutonc]

Wow, 182 views and no responses. Come on, I tried searching this, and the last thread was from 2008.

Pretty please??

Be careful what you wish for....

You haven't really given a good explanation of why you want to do a PhD.

I also can't deny that the possibility of graduating debt-free is a strong enticement.

Doing it for the free tuition is the worst financial decision you'll (hopefully) ever make.

However, I really want to get a greater exposure to research as a medical student, and I feel that the time given wouldn't be enough to fit in a significant research project without taking a year off.

I get that you like doing research (or at least think you do)...we all do, that's why we went this route. But if all you want is some extra research experience, do an HHMI/Duke year.

I also hope to be able to have a clinical practice and do research later on in my career, and I feel that a PhD would provide me with better training than an MD ( although I am aware many MDs have labs).

You're sort of right about this, the training will be different, more comprehensive and focus on different things. Better? Who knows.

Also, if I understand the plan you're describing correctly (and I may not, so forgive me if I'm putting words in your mouth), you want to go through MD (±PhD) then residency (±fellowship) then work a clinical job for awhile, and then go back to research "later." I bet you could count on 1 hand (with a couple of fingers left over) the number of people who have successfully followed this pathway. Could you come back and be a glorified post-doc or do a year-long sabbatical at some point? Sure. But if you want a successful basic science/bench research career, you need to be all-in from Day 1.

 

[SilverCat]

Thanks for your reply!

The reason I would like to try for a PhD is because I felt that it would provide me with the strongest research training, and the greatest opportunity to publish more papers. My interests lie in immunology and molecular bio research-- basic bench-- rather than clinical, and I fear I won't have time to complete projects and do well in my classes.

Looking over the med school curriculum, and knowing how much I struggled to keep up with my work and do research at the same time in undergrad, I would like to set aside time to do research. I've heard time and again how med students will struggle to balance research and classes, and I want to give myself the best opportunity to get the highest grades that I possibly can. My fears with regard to the HHMI/ Doris Duke/ any yearlong program is that they are so competitive that I won't have a shot unless I do research during med school, which will hurt my grades. Even then, I may not get a position; looking over the list of med schools from where fellows are selected, my school does not appear.

This may sound silly, but I was hoping to finish residency and an ID fellowship, and then conduct research and maintain a clinical practice simultaneously. I have known physicians who do this, but perhaps this is too ambitious for someone like me.

 

[red doctober]

Reasons for wanting MD/PhD aside, I hope you are aware that inter-insitituitional MD-to-MD/PhD transfers happen like never. Looking at your MD-applicants profile, you are either going to Toledo (non-MSTP) or OSU (MSTP).

Directly from Toledo's MD/PhD page:

"Support during the M.D. Phase

Two students per year are eligible to receive Medical School Tuition Scholarships, which cover the full cost of medical school tuition during the time they are registered as medical students. If a student is accepted into the M.D./Ph.D. program after completing one or two years of medical school, or the scholarship is awarded after matriculation, the Tuition Scholarship is not retroactive to the time prior to acceptance into the combined degree program or award of the scholarship. If a student leaves the M.D./Ph.D. program or fails to complete both degrees in a timely manner, the student forfeits future scholarship support and must pay back all medical school tuition that was previously awarded. The minimum requirement for yearly renewal of the tuition scholarship is a High Pass ("B") average in all medical school courses and maintenance of a 3.0 GPA for all graduate courses."

Looking at how many 2012 matriculants there were to Toledo's MD/PhD program (https://www.aamc.org/download/321544/data/2012factstable33.pdf) there were only 2; what a surprise given the max 2 scholarships that are given out a year. The take away point: if you are going to Toledo and want to do the MD/PhD, it will probably be tough to get a fully-funded position since they only give out 2/year. If it's not fully funded, I would not even think twice before passing it up, but it might be worth a shot at one of those scholarships if that's what you really want to do.

Ohio St. is a different matter; it's much more feasible here. Although I don't know for sure, I would think they would be open to internal transfers. You probably wouldn't get 1st year of med school paid for, but anything after that would be fully funded. In 2012, they had 8 matriculants, which is around the average for MSTPs, but being an MSTP, admissions will be very competitive, even for someone already going to med school there.

Last bit of advice: if you are really serious about this, I'd recommend talking to the MD/PhD program director at whatever school you'll be attending as early as possible to discuss the process of applying internally, what sorts of things they look for in their applicants, whether or not the MD/PhD program is a good fit for your goals, etc.

 

[SilverCat]

Reasons for wanting MD/PhD aside, I hope you are aware that inter-insitituitional MD-to-MD/PhD transfers happen like never. Looking at your MD-applicants profile, you are either going to Toledo (non-MSTP) or OSU (MSTP).

Directly from Toledo's MD/PhD page:

"Support during the M.D. Phase

Two students per year are eligible to receive Medical School Tuition Scholarships, which cover the full cost of medical school tuition during the time they are registered as medical students. If a student is accepted into the M.D./Ph.D. program after completing one or two years of medical school, or the scholarship is awarded after matriculation, the Tuition Scholarship is not retroactive to the time prior to acceptance into the combined degree program or award of the scholarship. If a student leaves the M.D./Ph.D. program or fails to complete both degrees in a timely manner, the student forfeits future scholarship support and must pay back all medical school tuition that was previously awarded. The minimum requirement for yearly renewal of the tuition scholarship is a High Pass (“B”) average in all medical school courses and maintenance of a 3.0 GPA for all graduate courses."

Looking at how many 2012 matriculants there were to Toledo's MD/PhD program (https://www.aamc.org/download/321544/data/2012factstable33.pdf) there were only 2; what a surprise given the max 2 scholarships that are given out a year. The take away point: if you are going to Toledo and want to do the MD/PhD, it will probably be tough to get a fully-funded position since they only give out 2/year. If it's not fully funded, I would not even think twice before passing it up, but it might be worth a shot at one of those scholarships if that's what you really want to do.

Ohio St. is a different matter; it's much more feasible here. Although I don't know for sure, I would think they would be open to internal transfers. You probably wouldn't get 1st year of med school paid for, but anything after that would be fully funded. In 2012, they had 8 matriculants, which is around the average for MSTPs, but being an MSTP, admissions will be very competitive, even for someone already going to med school there.

Last bit of advice: if you are really serious about this, I'd recommend talking to the MD/PhD program director at whatever school you'll be attending as early as possible to discuss the process of applying internally, what sorts of things they look for in their applicants, whether or not the MD/PhD program is a good fit for your goals, etc.

Thanks. unfortunately, I'm going to Toledo. I've contacted them, and apparently, they have one scholarship opening which has been promised to another applicant who will make a decision this week. I don't think I have much of a shot; I doubt this person would turn down an MD/ PhD. I'll just have to look for more research opportunities, because I can't afford to do a PhD without a scholarship.

Thanks for your advice guys.

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

I doubt this person would turn down an MD/ PhD.

Does happen occasionally; depends on the person.

 

[Sephiroth]

After having interviewed at one, I would not go to a MD/PhD program that is not fully funded, especially if you are not paying a low in-state tuition rate. Taking out two years of student loans at an expensive private or OOS school and allowing it to capitalize for 4 years is just a terrible decision with regard to personal finances. The only alternative would be that you fully intend on doing straight up PAYE/PSLF to have the loans forgiven, in which case, take out as much in loans as you can and live it up, because it's all just funny money.

 

[SilverCat]

Yeah, I just found out the MD/ PhD full tuition option would not be available to me, so I decided against it-- the debt increase would be at least 50k. I'm going to apply for one of those one year fellowships- HHMI, Doris Duke--in my third year. I'm also trying to line up a research gig over the summer after M1 at my alma mater, where I hope to do residency. I found a really great lab there, I just hope they take me!