MD vs. DO

[Johnny411]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to this site and the forums. I was going through some posts about getting into MD schools with a low GPA and was told a DO schools is basically the same as an MD school, but with different methods to medicine. I want to be a doctor, but I dont know which path to take. I really need some advice. So here is my story;

I am currently a 3rd year Biological Science undergrade student with a cGPA of 2.4. My science GPA is like around 2.8 to 3.0. I have about 60 to 70 more credits to complete to get my degree. If I do well in those course my GPA could probably boast up, but not by alot. On a recent threads I have posted on, I was advised not to take a postbachelor program since it wont help much with abtaining an acceptance to a MD school and its just a waste of money and time. Then I was advised to apply to DO schools. I looked into it and I am thinking that this could be a possiblity for me, if I dont get into any MD Schools. I know grades arent only a factor in admissions, so here are my EC work:
- 100 hrs of volunteer work in an ER and Pharmacy departments in hosipitals during the summers.
- Recruitment Coordinator for AmeriCorps/CALPIRG Energy Sevice Corps internship; one of my greatest accomplishments
- I am apart of multiple clubs on campus and will possible be nominated president for my Robotics club this semester.
- I plan on shadowing a General Surgeon this summer while still volunteering at the hospital and during the school year of 2012-2013 I will be shadowing an Orthopedic surgeon and doing research with my molecular bio prof on Computational bio.

I havent taken the MCAT yet, but plan on taking it in august and then retake (if needed) april 2013. Then I will start applying to schools the summer after I graduate.

So, all in all, I am trying to so if there is possibly a chance to still pursue admissions to an MD School? If an MD school is out of my reach, then is a DO school the right choice? I also wanted to know whats your oppinion on a DO school and someone who graduated from a DO school.

Here are some MD school that I want to attend. Can any of you give me your opinions on if these school are reachable;

1. UMass Medical School Worcester
2. Boston U Med school
3. Mount Sinai School of Medicine
4. NYU school of Medicine
5. U of Rochester med school
6. U of Pitts Med school
7. New Jersey Medical School

There are some other schools that I am looking into, but I just want to keep this post short. Please give me your opinion. 🙂

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[MrBird]

You should really just focus on applying to mostly DO schools with your app.

 

[scornev02]

That's a pretty low GPA so do well on the MCAT bc not being a non-traditional student it would be hard to get into DO too

 

[sector9]

Moving to "What are my chances"

Your GPA is uncompetitive for medical school in the US and at the big 4 in the Caribbean. It is going to take some major work to repair it. I recommend retaking classes and using the DO grade replacement policy and focus only on DO applications. You can forget about every school on your list.

 

[dreamweaver1988]

Go away troll

 

[Political]

Here are some MD school that I want to attend. Can any of you give me yout opinions on if these school are reachable;

1. UMass Medical School Worcester
2. Boston U Med school
3. Mount Sinai School of Medicine
4. NYU school of Medicine
5. U of Rochester med school
6. U of Pitts Med school
7. New Jersey Medical School

There are some other schools that I am looking into, but I just want to keep this post short. Please give me your opinion. 🙂

This should probably be moved to WAMC; but meh

With such a low c & s gpa and pretty standard ECs I dont think you have the luxury to pick and choose a few medical schools, if you want to successful you're going to have to apply broadly and be very open to medical schools in the midwest as well as DO. And even then it may be difficult with a <3.0 gpa & >30 MCAT (if you do well on it) and the last thing you want is to waste upwards of 3-4,000 dollars and have nothing to show in the end.

My suggestion is to:
a. Do a postbacc and try and raise your gpa to atleast 3.0 (w/ a >30 MCAT) if you want a decent shot at any medical school.
b. Try to get into an SMP, ace it, then apply into medical school

Either way its gonna be a long journey for you

 

[1TB4RKSB4CK]

Yeah. Your whole list is downright impossible (I don't believe in giving "false hope") since they are near-top tier schools. MD as a whole is ruled-out for right now.
DO may be an option, but with a low GPA, you will need to do multiple retakes.

 

[Catalystik]

I recommend retaking classes and using the DO grade replacement policy and focus only on DO applications.

Each class that one retakes must have the same credit hours as the original course, or greater in order to invoke the AACOMAS grade forgiveness policy. The retake need not be at the same school. The course name needn't be identical so long as the course content is demonstrably similar per the course catalogs.

When one retakes, only the most recent grade is included in the calculation of your application GPA by AACOMAS. This is the fastest way to redeem a low GPA.

Now figure out how many of your lowest grades you'd need to retake to get your cGPA > 3.0-3.3 and a sGPA > 3.3.



DO GPA calculation spreadsheet: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=450050

 

[Johnny411]

Each class that one retakes must have the same credit hours as the original course, or greater in order to invoke the AACOMAS grade forgiveness policy. The retake need not be at the same school. The course name needn't be identical so long as the course content is demonstrably similar per the course catalogs.

When one retakes, only the most recent grade is included in the calculation of your application GPA by AACOMAS. This is the fastest way to redeem a low GPA.

Now figure out how many of your lowest grades you'd need to retake to get your cGPA > 3.0-3.3 and a sGPA > 3.3.



DO GPA calculation spreadsheet: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=450050

Thank you!! I will look into my options and see what route is best for me. 🙂

 

[TriagePreMed]

DO is not "different methods to medicine." It's just medicine with another name for historical reasons and a bunch of advertisement about holistic care that you'll find in any reputable medical school (DO or MD). However, you're neither competitive for MD nor DO. Before you even consider medical school you need to get your grades in order.

P.S. You're not going to get into any of those med schools.

 

[octupus]

don't want to give you any false hope... so yea, even if you get a 35 on your MCAT, your chance at those schools you listed is pretty much zero. Save your money. Apply SMP or retake your low grades and apply DO.

 

[DeterminedDoc]

]DO is not "different methods to medicine." It's just medicine with another name for historical reasons and a bunch of advertisement about holistic care that you'll find in any reputable medical school (DO or MD). [/B]However, you're neither competitive for MD nor DO. Before you even consider medical school you need to get your grades in order.

P.S. You're not going to get into any of those med schools.

yup, but its also the route for those of us with crap grades and have screwed ourselves over too much for MD schools. Hence the lower admissions standards and the grade replacement policy which MD schools don't have, since they have smarter students in their classes that didn't need to do that.

Im stupid and proud man. DO all the way for us!

 

[MrBird]

DO is not "different methods to medicine." It's just medicine with another name for historical reasons and a bunch of advertisement about holistic care that you'll find in any reputable medical school (DO or MD). However, you're neither competitive for MD nor DO. Before you even consider medical school you need to get your grades in order.

P.S. You're not going to get into any of those med schools.

You don't think he's competitive for DO?

 

[Johnny411]

yup, but its also the route for those of us with crap grades and have screwed ourselves over too much for MD schools. Hence the lower admissions standards and the grade replacement policy which MD schools don't have, since they have smarter students in their classes that didn't need to do that.

Im stupid and proud man. DO all the way for us!

Yeah, I heard about that. Thanks man this really made me laugh. I think going to a DO school is the route for me. I still have like 1.5 - 2 years left of school so maybe I can boast my GPA and maybe take Postbac course or get a MS degree after I graduate, then start applying to MD schools. But I am still waying my options. 🙂

 

[TriagePreMed]

You don't think he's competitive for DO?

Well, it is a 2.4 if I'm reading things correctly. OP can definitely turn things around. There's no doubt to that, but as it stands, I'd say no chance.

 

[Johnny411]

Well, thank you guys for your advice. I am still going to aim for medical school and do whatever it takes to be competitive. If it turns out I don't make it, then I have other career paths that I can go into. Being a doctor is not the only career I want to go into, but I still have 2 years of school left so we shall see.

 

[DeterminedDoc]

Yeah, I heard about that. Thanks man this really made me laugh. I think going to a DO school is the route for me. I still have like 1.5 - 2 years left of school so maybe I can boast my GPA and maybe take Postbac course or get a MS degree after I graduate, then start applying to MD schools. But I am still waying my options.

Im a third year with a 2.4 like you as well, so we are pretty much in the same boat. The only thing is that I'm Indian and therefore am royally screwed for admissions since Indian pre-meds don't have GPAs and MCATs below 3.7 and 35 respectively. I doubt I could even get into a DO school with my grades.

Ultimately to claim that "DO is the route for me" is superficial in this case since, well, we just suck too much for MD schools - despite everyone's preference of MD to DO. So if that is only option open, we don't really have a choice, and can't really claim it is THE route for us if it ends up being ONLY route besides Carribbean as we watch MDs soar over us. Such is life mate. Such is life.

We pay the price for screwing up, its living with it after thats the really hard part.

There's lots of things you can do if you have time. Plus I'm assuming that your not South Asian so your family and friends would be more open minded about things like DO, and if you don't really care, then go for it. Good luck.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Im a third year with a 2.4 like you as well, so we are pretty much in the same boat. The only thing is that I'm Indian and therefore am royally screwed for admissions since Indian pre-meds don't have GPAs and MCATs below 3.7 and 35 respectively. I doubt I could even get into a DO school with my grades.

Ultimately to claim that "DO is the route for me" is superficial in this case since, well, we just suck too much for MD schools - despite everyone's preference of MD to DO. So if that is only option open, we don't really have a choice, and can't really claim it is THE route for us if it ends up being ONLY route besides Carribbean as we watch MDs soar over us. Such is life mate. Such is life.

We pay the price for screwing up, its living with it after thats the really hard part.

There's lots of things you can do if you have time. Plus I'm assuming that your not South Asian so your family and friends would be more open minded about things like DO, and if you don't really care, then go for it. Good luck.

Seriously, don't go into DO if this is your attitude. Believe it or not, some people aren't as insecure as you and are completely happy with their DO and know how bull**** statements like "MD's soar over us."

 

[Johnny411]

Im a third year with a 2.4 like you as well, so we are pretty much in the same boat. The only thing is that I'm Indian and therefore am royally screwed for admissions since Indian pre-meds don't have GPAs and MCATs below 3.7 and 35 respectively. I doubt I could even get into a DO school with my grades.

Ultimately to claim that "DO is the route for me" is superficial in this case since, well, we just suck too much for MD schools - despite everyone's preference of MD to DO. So if that is only option open, we don't really have a choice, and can't really claim it is THE route for us if it ends up being ONLY route besides Carribbean as we watch MDs soar over us. Such is life mate. Such is life.

We pay the price for screwing up, its living with it after thats the really hard part.

There's lots of things you can do if you have time. Plus I'm assuming that your not South Asian so your family and friends would be more open minded about things like DO, and if you don't really care, then go for it. Good luck.

I am not saying this is the only route for me, I am just saying that I may consider going to a DO than a MD school. I am still going to do whatever it takes to get into a MD school, but I will also apply to DO schools as well just so I have my options. I am not giving up on going to an MD school and there is still hope. I just have to work on it and in 2 to 4 years I will achieve it. Well shall see. Thank you

 

[DeterminedDoc]

Seriously, don't go into DO if this is your attitude. Believe it or not, some people aren't as insecure as you and are completely happy with their DO and know how bull**** statements like "MD's soar over us."

How exactly is that a bs statement? Better degree = better life. To go into DO just because you can't be an MD means that you aren't as good as MDs, therefore they do soar above you.

If you wanted to be a DO because you were inspired by a DO, have DO family members, or prefer Osteo to Allo, or whatever else besides crap grades, these are all completely legitimate reasons, then there is nothing wrong with going DO in that case and you have no reason to feel insecure. I guess those are the people you are referring too and I agree with you there. Im only talking about people who went DO solely because their grades and MCAT sucked too much for MD schools.

However, if you have a 2.4 GPA your pretty much screwed even for Caribbean let alone DO, so no, you can't really claim that your "degrees are equal" when your barely qualified for one and will never be qualified enough for MD. Ultimately someone who graduates college with a 3.8 and 35 with great recs and ecs will always be a more qualified doctor than someone who had to through hell by spending 4 years retaking classes to end up with a less respected degree. This is my point, and the majority of those students in the first case usually end up as MDs. This is one of many life's harsh realities.

I am not saying this is the only route for me, I am just saying that I may consider going to a DO than a MD school.

Dude, im in a worse position than you with a 2.4 GPA. I have a downward trend and am South Asian. Retaking classes and getting into a DO school is a longshot for me, and MD isn't going to happen in this life unless I cure cancer. Everyone is pretty much saying MD is gone for you mate, so unless your referring to Caribbean (in which case I would choose DO), then it IS the ONLY logical route for you. Unless you have a secret cure to Alzheimer's that we don't know about, you can forget about becoming an MD.

I am not giving up on going to an MD school and there is still hope. I just have to work on it and in 2 to 4 years I will achieve it. Well shall see. Thank you

I don't mean to sound harsh - but there really isn't any hope, at least for US MD schools. Like I said before, we are in similar boats so its good for you to have hope - just make sure your hope is reasonable. Whatever you decide to do, I hope it works out for you. Good luck.

 

[gmcguitar4]

How exactly is that a bs statement? Better degree = better life. To go into DO just because you can't be an MD means that you aren't as good as MDs, therefore they do soar above you.

...it is a BS statement. The factor that determine those admissions averages for MD schools that sorted people like you out is just good ol' competitiveness. More people apply = more competitive. DO will eventually be the same difficulty if not harder b/c their are fewer programs out there. It all depends on what you do with the degree, not the letters after your name. I hope you will realize this before attending one of these schools.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

...it is a BS statement. The factor that determine those admissions averages for MD schools that sorted people like you out is just good ol' competitiveness. More people apply = more competitive. DO will eventually be the same difficulty if not harder b/c their are fewer programs out there. It all depends on what you do with the degree, not the letters after your name. I hope you will realize this before attending one of these schools.

I doubt DO schools will ever be as competitive as MD schools for a number of reasons. Also just be use there are less seats per applicant does not and never will mean that it is more competitive. And I have my doubts that the DO degree will remain independent of the MD degree in the following 20-30 years.
Regardless, this is not a conventional MD v.s DO debate, OP has no chance at MD. DO is the only route which offers the potential for the OP to become a doctor and practice medicine.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I doubt DO schools will ever be as competitive as MD schools for a number of reasons. Also just be use there are less seats per applicant does not and never will mean that it is more competitive. And I have my doubts that the DO degree will remain independent of the MD degree in the following 20-30 years.
Regardless, this is not a conventional MD v.s DO debate, OP has no chance at MD. DO is the only route which offers the potential for the OP to become a doctor and practice medicine.

Don't doubt it too much. Look at DMU and their monster scores. They are comparable to many MD programs out there.

 

[TriagePreMed]

How exactly is that a bs statement? Better degree = better life. To go into DO just because you can't be an MD means that you aren't as good as MDs, therefore they do soar above you.

I hate responding to dead accounts, but I think anyone that has ever been to college (undergrad) knows that going to a more prestigious school or even 2 people at the same school doesn't necessarily mean "better degree" or "better life." I have friends from my undergrad. One went DO and one Caribbean MD (Rejected from DO). There is no destiny but the one you make for yourself. For one reason or another, you might end up at DO. Yes, it could very well be grades, but the final product, the doctor you become, is worth 10x whatever name or school you tag to it. Then we can add the entire layer of residency and fellowship to it if we want.

 

[boyby1]

Try carribean MD school if you are determined enough. That MD vs DO is all a bunch of crap. Earlier I was looking at some surgery residency, and in one of the top medical centers in the country for 6 slots they picked 5 DOs. And let me tell you, there are a lot of crappy MDs out there. So if you want it bad enough, you wiil raise ur GPA and do it.

 

[411309]

I just saw this and felt the need to respond. Anyone that thinks a DO is "inferior" to MD probably doesn't have good enough stats to get into either school anyways. I hope some people are joking because ive shadowed MDs and DOs and honestly it's impossible to know the difference unless you see their degrees or they tell you. The real truth is, a lot of people go into MD just because they think DO is "lesser". Granted my gpa is only a 3.26 and ill be applying the DO route, even if my GPA was a 4.0 I still would have went the DO route. Why? For one I have a strong interest in primary care and I feel like DOs make excellent primary care doctors. Not to mention ive seen several highly successful DOs that really love what they do. If you go into MD school with the attitude that you are "superior" to other doctors then you wont make it very far.

 

[scornev02]

Boyby1- which residency are you referring to that picked 5 DO

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Don't doubt it too much. Look at DMU and their monster scores. They are comparable to many MD programs out there.

3.7/28. Is below the MD average.

 

[TriagePreMed]

3.7/28. Is below the MD average.

Did I say MD average or did I say comparable to many MD programs? For example, Albany Medical is 3.6/32 or Arkansas 3.7/29. That's not equal. That's comparable because the GPA is higher and the MCAT is approximate.