med school applicant turned dent?

[Mikel Jackson]

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i am 21 and applied to medical school this year, but won't be getting in and am now very interested in dentistry. i have been all along, i just had been on the pre-med route so i just went with that. i have a 3.82 gpa and excellent ECs, only they were all geared for medical school. i did join the pre-dental club as a sophomore, but that's all. my question is, will dental schools readily accept an applicant that applied to med school and failed? is that a common thing? or do they not consider the med school rejects?

 

[jackbauer!]

duck!!!!........

 

[KOM]

Depends what you mean by "readily."

Just show an interest in the profession and have the numbers (your GPA is very good) and be prepared to explain the switch when you get the interviews.

Admissions committee's see people switching pretty regularly I imagine.

In my opinion, I sincerely believe that dentistry is becoming (or has already become) more competitive than medical school. This is just what I've seen from my wife who's currently applying to med school.

 

[shamrock2006]

Depends what you mean by "readily."

Just show an interest in the profession and have the numbers (your GPA is very good) and be prepared to explain the switch when you get the interviews.

Admissions committee's see people switching pretty regularly I imagine.

In my opinion, I sincerely believe that dentistry is becoming (or has already become) more competitive than medical school. This is just what I've seen from my wife who's currently applying to med school.

agreed, w/ your GPA you'll get interviews, just make sure you can explain the switch. I also agree w/ the dental school becoming more difficult than med school. I have had talks w/ 2 of my uncles who are MD's and they both say the same thing...that the ratio of applicants/# of seats is higher for dental school than med school these days. It seems to be becoming the "trendy" healthcare profession apparently. Congrats to the class of 2011!!

 

[IdiotsAnnoyMe]

Dentistry is not YET more competitive than medicine. It won't get there for a great many years. Medicine still attracts a great many more of the top students, so dental schools would have to make absolute sure that they take all the best students they can, to lessen the gap.

 

[HermeytheElf]

i am 21 and applied to medical school this year, but won't be getting in and am now very interested in dentistry. i have been all along, i just had been on the pre-med route so i just went with that. i have a 3.82 gpa and excellent ECs, only they were all geared for medical school. i did join the pre-dental club as a sophomore, but that's all. my question is, will dental schools readily accept an applicant that applied to med school and failed? is that a common thing? or do they not consider the med school rejects?

You obviously have an excellent GPA, so if you can think up a really good reason for the adcoms on why you decided to make the switch from med to dent, then I think you shouldn't have a problem getting in somewhere. My advice would be to go shadow a few general dentists and as many specialists as you can find over Christmas break so you can find something which interests you in dentistry. If nothing does, then I suggest you stick with medicine. It would be better to spend a couple years getting into med school if you know thats what you want to do than to pick dentistry as a backup and spend your life doing something you hate.

 

[armorshell]

Quick! Put on this flame suit!!!

 

[llGSll K9]

Yea some good advice posted for u here!! like some of the others mentioned just do some shadowing find out if u really like it and also helps with ur application...if they ask you about medicine than u can explain to them, who knows after shadowin u might hate dentistry....
I dont agree with IdiotsAnnoyMe, looking at the stats already getting in dental school is more competitive than medical school, for me dental school has always been my only choice but for some of my friends they picked med as backup and most of them didnt make it to dental school but they are all in med school..which further proves my point that dentistry is more competitive than med skool these days ....what the ignorant public thinks is a diff story some of them dont consider dentists doctors..idiots

 

[StudentDentist]

Yea some good advice posted for u here!! like some of the others mentioned just do some shadowing find out if u really like it and also helps with ur application...if they ask you about medicine than u can explain to them, who knows after shadowin u might hate dentistry....
I dont agree with IdiotsAnnoyMe, looking at the stats already getting in dental school is more competitive than medical school, for me dental school has always been my only choice but for some of my friends they picked med as backup and most of them didnt make it to dental school but they are all in med school..which further proves my point that dentistry is more competitive than med skool these days ....what the ignorant public thinks is a diff story some of them dont consider dentists doctors..idiots

There's a certain name for people who consider dentists doctors. They're called dentists.

 

[kappa505]

Dentistry is not YET more competitive than medicine. It won't get there for a great many years. Medicine still attracts a great many more of the top students, so dental schools would have to make absolute sure that they take all the best students they can, to lessen the gap.

Why do you think that? Show me your reference.

 

[IdiotsAnnoyMe]

Why do you think that? Show me your reference.

General impression...

From college experience. I was more impressed with certain students' intellect than others.

Looking at US News, of the ranked schools, the average GPA's hovering around 3.6 - 3.8. The avg MCAT's 32-ish to 36. These are very impressive numbers. And there are enough students at the top 50 med schools to almost double that of the nation's dental schools.

It's hard to get into dental schools in terms of the lack of space. There are - I think - 152 US Medical schools, so it may be easier to grab A spot. Yet, I know too many brilliant, brilliant pre-meds to discredit medical schools.

Again, this is just my impression from WashU. It may be different at other schools.

 

[DDSY]

Obviously, you have your reasons for initially choosing medical school. Believe it or not, dentistry in many ways is VERY different from medicine. This is why, as some posts have suggested, you should first shadow a dentist to see what dentistry is really about.

But the big question is, why the jump? You obviously have a high GPA and, possibly, the only thing that is holding you back is your MCAT score. If you did not get into a MD program, there are tons of DO and foreign medical programs, which are signficantly easier to get into. You could also pursue a Master's of physiology or a PA program and then later apply to medical school. I suggest you think twice about jumping boat, because if your passion is medicine, there are many reasonable ways of achieving your goal.

i am 21 and applied to medical school this year, but won't be getting in and am now very interested in dentistry. i have been all along, i just had been on the pre-med route so i just went with that. i have a 3.82 gpa and excellent ECs, only they were all geared for medical school. i did join the pre-dental club as a sophomore, but that's all. my question is, will dental schools readily accept an applicant that applied to med school and failed? is that a common thing? or do they not consider the med school rejects?

 

[OMFSdoc]

b

 

[OMFSdoc]

You'll get in. Just shadow a dentist for ~50hrs to show some interest in the field.

 

[kappa505]

General impression...

From college experience. I was more impressed with certain students' intellect than others.

Looking at US News, of the ranked schools, the average GPA's hovering around 3.6 - 3.8. The avg MCAT's 32-ish to 36. These are very impressive numbers. And there are enough students at the top 50 med schools to almost double that of the nation's dental schools.

It's hard to get into dental schools in terms of the lack of space. There are - I think - 152 US Medical schools, so it may be easier to grab A spot. Yet, I know too many brilliant, brilliant pre-meds to discredit medical schools.

Again, this is just my impression from WashU. It may be different at other schools.

Who are you referring to.
Who was discrediting medical school?
Applicants/seat=competition

 

[DrBowtie]

Who are you referring to.
Who was discrediting medical school?
Applicants/seat=competition

So you are defining competition based upon pure number of applicants/spots rather than the quality of applicants?

 

[kappa505]

Are you saying that dental students are not as quality as med students? Having a huge number of applicants forces the quality of student that gets accepted to increase. If there are 50 applicants per seat, do you think that they take the worst of the 50? I have no proof, but I do believe that dentisty does pull its students from a more diverse applicant pool.

 

[DrBowtie]

Are you saying that dental students are not as quality as med students? Having a huge number of applicants forces the quality of student that gets accepted to increase. If there are 50 applicants per seat, do you think that they take the worst of the 50? I have no proof, but I do believe that dentisty does pull its students from a more diverse applicant pool.

I'm saying that you shouldn't base things on the applicants/seats ratio.
There are many things at play:
A) Some seats aren't eligible as an out of state applicant. This happens in public schools.
B) How many applications each applicant sends out.
C) The top dental and med applicants would be get into both so you can't really compare them except for the "average" applicant and matriculant.
This data is available for medical schools, but I don't know how much the dental school app service provides about their population statistics.

A fair comparison would include comparing average Science GPAs, Overall GPAs, and %iles for the DAT/MCAT of the profiles of applicants and matriculants.

If you can gather the info for dental schools, we can have a real analysis.

 

[kappa505]

I'm saying that you shouldn't base things on the applicants/seats ratio.
There are many things at play:
A) Some seats aren't eligible as an out of state applicant. This happens in public schools.
B) How many applications each applicant sends out.
C) The top dental and med applicants would be get into both so you can't really compare them except for the "average" applicant and matriculant.
This data is available for medical schools, but I don't know how much the dental school app service provides about their population statistics.

A fair comparison would include comparing average Science GPAs, Overall GPAs, and %iles for the DAT/MCAT of the profiles of applicants and matriculants.

If you can gather the info for dental schools, we can have a real analysis.

a) isnt it the same for med school
b) ok
c) ok

gather the data for med school and i will do the same for dental school. Then I will make an ANOVA table.

 

[DrBowtie]

a) isnt it the same for med school
b) ok
c) ok

gather the data for med school and i will do the same for dental school. Then I will make an ANOVA table.

1) It is the same but it could be to a varying degree. Almost every state has a public medical school, yet not every state has a public dental school (to my knowledge).

Stats forthcoming...

 

[aphistis]

1) It is the same but it could be to a varying degree. Almost every state has a public medical school, yet not every state has a public dental school (to my knowledge).

Stats forthcoming...

Brett, if you're really wanting to do this, the best single source for the pre-dental crowd would probably be predents.com.

Having said that, SDN is a dramatically skewed sample for both populations. Anyone trying to come up with meaningful analysis is much less likely to change any minds than to simply foment a flame war.

 

[DrBowtie]

1) It is the same but it could be to a varying degree. Almost every state has a public medical school, yet not every state has a public dental school (to my knowledge).

Stats forthcoming...

Source: http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/2006mcatgpa.htm
2006
Average Applicant Overall GPA: 3.48
Average Applicant Science GPA: 3.38
Average Applicant Non-Sci GPA: 3.61
Average Applicant MCAT Score: 27.6
*Percentiles for 27: 56.6-62.5
*Percentiles for 28: 62.6-68.4

Average Matriculant Overall GPA: 3.64
Average Matriculant Science GPA: 3.57
Average Matriculant Non-Sci GPA: 3.71
Average Matriculant MCAT Score: 30.4
*Percentiles for 30: 74.1-79.0
*Percentiles for 31: 79.1-83.3

Total Applicants: 39,108
Total Matriculants: 17,370

* Percentiles were from my administration. They change slightly each admin.

If you want I can get more detailed sometime about the # of spots available to people if you discount all of the state schools spots that people are ineligible for.

 

[DrBowtie]

Brett, if you're really wanting to do this, the best single source for the pre-dental crowd would probably be predents.com.

Having said that, SDN is a dramatically skewed sample for both populations. Anyone trying to come up with meaningful analysis is much less likely to change any minds than to simply foment a flame war.

Does the ADEA (I believe this is the governing body) not publish such data? The AAMC is really good about making this type of information available.

Edit: Also no flame war is intended. I was just trying to curb the speculation.

 

[kappa505]

Source: http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/2006mcatgpa.htm
2006
Average Applicant Overall GPA: 3.48
Average Applicant Science GPA: 3.38
Average Applicant Non-Sci GPA: 3.61
Average Applicant MCAT Score: 27.6
*Percentiles for 27: 56.6-62.5
*Percentiles for 28: 62.6-68.4

Average Matriculant Overall GPA: 3.64
Average Matriculant Science GPA: 3.57
Average Matriculant Non-Sci GPA: 3.71
Average Matriculant MCAT Score: 30.4
*Percentiles for 30: 74.1-79.0
*Percentiles for 31: 79.1-83.3

Total Applicants: 39,108
Total Matriculants: 17,370

* Percentiles were from my administration. They change slightly each admin.

If you want I can get more detailed sometime about the # of spots available to people if you discount all of the state schools spots that people are ineligible for.

I think that in the spirit of this analysis, we should only consider the matriculant stats. Do you agree? Also, How many seats are available in medschool.

 

[DrBowtie]

I think that in the spirit of this analysis, we should only consider the matriculant stats. Do you agree? Also, How many seats are available in medschool.

Why only the matriculants? It's all about competition relative to the respective applicant pool. Without the applicant numbers, you don't have a benchmark to base the matriculants on.

The # of Matriculants equals the # of available spots. No seats go unfilled.
The numbers do however include Canadian and PR medical schools since they are governed by the same body.

 

[DDSY]

The AAMC stats are not the full picture of medical students. They include students who apply/matriculate to American MD programs. There are also DO programs and foreign medical programs (St. George's, Ross, etc) that have significantly lower stats.

 

[DrBowtie]

The AAMC stats are not the full picture of medical students. They include students who apply/matriculate to American MD programs. There are also DO programs and foreign medical programs (St. George's, Ross, etc) that have significantly lower stats.

You're absolutely right. However, there aren't any cumulative data sets for these. This was the best I could do using concrete numbers.

There is also controversy surrounding the "quality" of these programs which I won't get into here.

I'm not trying to "prove" who is better because there are plenty of predents that could out perform plenty of premeds. My intent was just to provide some data rather than people's "college experience".

 

[aphistis]

Brett, ADEA regularly (annually?) publishes a written guide to all US dental schools, but I'm not sure how much information it contains, and I couldn't find anything publicly available on their website. Nothing helpful from the ADA or ASDA, either.

 

[kappa505]

Why only the matriculants? It's all about competition relative to the respective applicant pool. Without the applicant numbers, you don't have a benchmark to base the matriculants on.

The # of Matriculants equals the # of available spots. No seats go unfilled.
The numbers do however include Canadian and PR medical schools since they are governed by the same body.

Becasue those are the "averages" that you need to be accepted. I only want to analyze the numbers for the matriculants versus the number of applicants. this will give us a good indication of what is needed from the applicant to actually attend school, not just try and apply (anyone can apply).

I havent found any data that has been collected for evey school yet. Each school posts their own stats and I dont think that I want to go to each website and get the data. maybe some people out there in cyberspace want to go and post the data on this thread. i will then do the magic.

 

[DrBowtie]

Becasue those are the "averages" that you need to be accepted. I only want to analyze the numbers for the matriculants versus the number of applicants. this will give us a good indication of what is needed from the applicant to actually attend school, not just try and apply (anyone can apply).

I havent found any data that has been collected for evey school yet. Each school posts their own stats and I dont think that I want to go to each website and get the data. maybe some people out there in cyberspace want to go and post the data on this thread. i will then do the magic.

Fair enough. Now you guys have a source to reference when referring to premeds.

Good luck to you all 🙂.

 

[sejin8642]

I think it's fine as long as you give them good impressions that you are raelly interested in dentistry not because of back-up plan.

 

[sumluck]

Brett, ADEA regularly (annually?) publishes a written guide to all US dental schools, but I'm not sure how much information it contains, and I couldn't find anything publicly available on their website. Nothing helpful from the ADA or ASDA, either.

http://www.adea.org/resources/OG/OG_3_WhereToApply.pdf

go to page 31 and 32 (i think). these average entering stats are for 05-06, and I do believe the stats have jumped quite surprisingly over the last two years based upon people I know who were accepted/rejected over the past couple of years including this cycle...as well as from others here on SDN..not trying to add fuel to the fire but there are stats available for whoever cares... i really don't

 

[KOM]

The statistics show that 97.3% of those matriculating into dental school are way more awesome than those matriculating into medical school.

This is straight out of "KOM's Guide to Being Awesome - 3rd edition"

1% of the remaining 2.7% of the medical school matriculants that are way more awesome than matriculating dental students includes my wife.

And there is a 1.7% margin of error.

 

[Fuji]

This is straight out of "KOM's Guide to Being Awesome - 3rd edition"

Dang it - I've been using the 2nd edition this whole time!

 

[wizziefiend]

i am 21 and applied to medical school this year, but won't be getting in and am now very interested in dentistry. i have been all along, i just had been on the pre-med route so i just went with that. i have a 3.82 gpa and excellent ECs, only they were all geared for medical school. i did join the pre-dental club as a sophomore, but that's all. my question is, will dental schools readily accept an applicant that applied to med school and failed? is that a common thing? or do they not consider the med school rejects?

I've always been predent, never applied to med school, never took the MCAT.

One dental school I interviewed at was obsessed with my "premed" ECs. They said I was using dental as a fallback. They couldn't understand that the "premed" volunteer positions in my city were far better than the "predent" ones. I wan't patient interaction so I was at a hospital...I didn't want to clean dental instruments all day in a lab. My entire interview was me trying to convince him I was commited to dental...I was suprised to say the least.

So be REALLY prepared to convince them.

 

[SuperTrooper]

http://www.adea.org/resources/OG/OG_3_WhereToApply.pdf

go to page 31 and 32 (i think). these average entering stats are for 05-06, and I do believe the stats have jumped quite surprisingly over the last two years based upon people I know who were accepted/rejected over the past couple of years including this cycle...as well as from others here on SDN..not trying to add fuel to the fire but there are stats available for whoever cares... i really don't

That's an interesting link. Of note:
-Case's male to female ratio for 2005/2006 entering class is 58/17 😱 sausage party!!
-Columbia has 50 "asian americans" in its 2005/2006 entering class of 78. 😱 That's like 65%...

 

[greenday]

That's an interesting link. Of note:
-Case's male to female ratio for 2005/2006 entering class is 58/17 😱 sausage party!!
-Columbia has 50 "asian americans" in its 2005/2006 entering class of 78. 😱 That's like 65%...

Is that for real!!? but there are indeed some very attractive indian/persian/korean/chinese girls to make up for that.

 

[kappa505]

Average Matriculant Overall GPA: 3.64
Average Matriculant Science GPA: 3.57
Average Matriculant MCAT Score: 30.4
*Percentiles for 30: 74.1-79.0
*Percentiles for 31: 79.1-83.3

Total Applicants: 39,108
Total Matriculants: 17,370
#applicants/seat:2.25

Dental School(From 2003-2005)
Average Matriculant DAT:19
Average Matriculant Overall GPA:3.5
Average Matriculant Science GPA:3.4
Total # applicants:75,790
Total # Matriculants:4634
#applicants/seat:16.36

I am not sure what percentile 19 is, someone should post it.
Well, Is Dental school more competitive? Does the slightly higher GPA scores make med school harder to get into. Personaly I dont think so. Opinions?

 

[sumluck]

somehow i don't think there are ~75k applicants for dental school each year...

 

[dentstd]

Orgo's the make or break class for med school. They expect an A in orgo, and they look down towards an A- or below. A grade of "C" pretty much means you're screwed.

A great number of med schools look at grades in bio, chem, orgo, physics, and calc. They take every applicant's grades from those classes and start ranking them, selecting those with the highest BCPM averages.

 

[dentstd]

somehow i don't think there are ~75k applicants for dental school each year...

It's possible. Considering they had 4634 matriculants that year. Puts NYU to shame!

 

[kappa505]

somehow i don't think there are ~75k applicants for dental school each year...

Go to the link that you posted.....http://www.adea.org/resources/OG/OG_3_WhereToApply.pdf
and add up # of applicants at each school. I even neglected the cannucks.

 

[fightingspirit]

i am 21 and applied to medical school this year, but won't be getting in and am now very interested in dentistry. i have been all along, i just had been on the pre-med route so i just went with that. i have a 3.82 gpa and excellent ECs, only they were all geared for medical school. i did join the pre-dental club as a sophomore, but that's all. my question is, will dental schools readily accept an applicant that applied to med school and failed? is that a common thing? or do they not consider the med school rejects?

you are only 21. young and full of energy. if you wanna go to med-school you must work hard, retake the MCAT and reapply. eventually, you'll get in. i say this because i have mixed feelings regarding applicants in your situation. on the one hand, i am glad you are considering dentistry because it is a great career. on the other hand you are not only perpetuating the idea that dents are med-school rejects but you are also taking the spot of someone who's truly in it for the love of the game. retake that MCAT and stick to med school until you genuinely become interested in dentistry. i know you joined the pre-dent club but that means little.

 

[dentstd]

you are only 21. young and full of energy. if you wanna go to med-school you must work hard, retake the MCAT and reapply. eventually, you'll get in. i say this because i have mixed feelings regarding applicants in your situation. on the one hand, i am glad you are considering dentistry because it is a great career. on the other hand you are not only perpetuating the idea that dents are med-school rejects but you are also taking the spot of someone who's truly in it for the love of the game. retake that MCAT and stick to med school until you genuinely become interested in dentistry. i know you joined the pre-dent club but that means little.

Med schools don't take the highest or latest MCAT score. They consider all scores. Try to slay that beast within two tries. A third try spells catastrophy, even if it's high.

 

[dentstd]

Go to the link that you posted.....http://www.adea.org/resources/OG/OG_3_WhereToApply.pdf
and add up # of applicants at each school. I even neglected the cannucks.

Sorry. No cigar. Major mathematical reasoning error. You can't just add up the number of applicants for each school. Why? Because people routinely apply to 15-20 schools. You get 75k applicants when you count one head upwards of 15 times.

 

[sumluck]

Go to the link that you posted.....http://www.adea.org/resources/OG/OG_3_WhereToApply.pdf
and add up # of applicants at each school. I even neglected the cannucks.

hmmm..so you added up the # of applicants for each dental school. seems logical, until you account for the fact that most applicants apply to more than one school. lets think conservatively and say each applicant applies to 6 schools....divide 75k by 6 and you get around 12,500...still roughly a 1/3 shot

didn't see the post right above, but yeah...same reasoning

 

[kappa505]

I realize that, but I was assuming that med school applicants apply to the same # of schools so that the ratios would be the same. Would you say that med school applicants apply to six schools as well? Let me know what you guys think.

 

[kappa505]

Bump

 

[dentstd]

I realize that, but I was assuming that med school applicants apply to the same # of schools so that the ratios would be the same. Would you say that med school applicants apply to six schools as well? Let me know what you guys think.

The rule's at least 12 but no more than 15. But that's irrelevant. The number you got off of the AAMC website considers ONLY the total number of applicants (ie, the number of students who filed an AMCAS application (analogous to the # of AADSAS apps submitted)).

 

[kappa505]

The rule's at least 12 but no more than 15. But that's irrelevant. The number you got off of the AAMC website considers ONLY the total number of applicants (ie, the number of students who filed an AMCAS application (analogous to the # of AADSAS apps submitted)).

I did not get any number off of aamc, but was rather given that number by someone in this very thread. I did not look to see what the number was based on. Do you know where to find the aadsas #, and I will gladly fix it.