Med school in Japan?

[WanderingDave]

Can anyone here say anything about med school in Japan? I'm a veteran of East Asia, a non-native Japanese and Chinese speaker, and a straight-B liberal arts graduate (class of 2001) (i.e. not bloody likely to get into American med school anytime soon).

Things you don't need to tell me (facts I'm already aware of):
* Japanese med students start right out of high school.
* There's an entrance exam. It's hard and in Japanese.
* Japan is on the cutting edge of many technologies, and medical science isn't one of them.
* Japanese students learn more by rote than most Westerners, so med school there has more rote learning components, and students there memorize better.
* Japanese med school is taught and tested in Japanse.
* Japanese people don't mix well with people from anywhere else.

I know Japan is not a popular place for N.American med student hopefuls (save a handful of Nissei, maybe) to try when they enter the game late, for all the reasons I just gave. I wasted my college years on smoking pot, fighting off existential angst, and skipping classes, all the while counting straight Bs as I coasted on my native ability. but in the past 2 years (I'm 24, 2 years out of college), I've wised up and gotten on the clue train, and feel driven to try something very hard. I have experience volunteering in a hospital, and all I'd need a refesher on were a couple science courses and my written Japanese.

Be very frank with me -- would going for med school in Japan be a great challenge for the high - school - valedictorian - turned - college - pothead that I am/was? Or would it be a great way to drive myself to suicide?

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[maxheadroom]

I don't know anything about medical education in Japan. Just a couple of points, though . . .

1. Why go to Japan? Just because you have some experiences that will help you there?

2. Why not try to stay here? If you're really a bright guy (valedictorian turned crack, I mean, pot-head), then you should be able to study and do well on the MCAT. A good MCAT score covers a multitude of undergrad sins, especially when you back it up with post-bac or master's courses. Yes, that adds a year or two to your educational experience. Of course, you've already realized that you'll have to take something of a non-trad track towards your goal.

Summary: take some courses, study this time, lay off the ganja, prepare for the MCAT, and attempt medschool here first.

 

[Stephen Ewen]

Most Japanese med schools accept a few non-Japanese persons. However, you must be truly top-notch. No kidding: I read a few years ago from one Japanese med school's web-site the following: "So, if you wish come here instead of going to Harvard or Yale, we welcome your application." My take, therefore, is that your question is very probably moot.

 

[WanderingDave]

Wow Stephen, what you said goes against much of what I've heard from other sources. My guess is that since Japan is a big and rich country, it has a lot of medical schools, which run the gamut of quality, much like the US or UK. My guess is that if I were to apply through a beaten-path foreign exchange student program at a renowned Japanese medical school, what you say is completely true.

However, if I were to sit the national college entrance exam with Japanese citizens, and apply through the same channels the locals did to a wider range of places, I might have better odds.

One cool thing about Japanese med schools I've read is that the public universities are quite affordable. I could pay for all 4 years of class cash upfront. But that doesn't include lab fees, books, room and board, or living expenses in this hellishly expensive country.
Residents receive a stipend of a couple million yen a year, which is quite liveable.

As for private unis in Japan... hmm... well, I hear the entrance exam is a formality, and the only thing determining any student's admission is his ability/willingness to pony up tens of millions of yen a year in tuition fees (I'll let you figure out the exchange rate. That's some serious do-re-mi.) Their quality lags behind that of public unis, and healthcare administrators know this.

 

[TexasGuy41]

If you are a non-native speaker of Japanese, how could you study medicine in their language? I speak Italian fluently, I can watch tv fine, I have plenty of Italian friends and talk non stop to them in Italian, etc. That doesn't mean for one second I'd be prepared to take a test in Italian against other Italians, where the subject matter was medicine no less! Medicine is extremely hard when its taught in your native language, I can't even fathom it in your non-native language. Not to mention the tremendous stigma attached to foreigners in Japan. I'm sure you are really bright, but I'd be careful about what you are considering. Why not take your pre-reqs (if you haven't already), and head to SGU or Ross in the Carib, or one of the Irish schools? It'd be an equally challenging and fun adventure, and you would be learning in English. You could always try to work out a Japanese rotation or post-grad year somehow.

 

[PediaSure]

Wandering Dave,
I have to agree with posters advising you to try the US first if you want to return to the US as a doctor. I think your story would make a great PS (might leave out the pot part). And your life experience would make you a better candidate. And your still very young. Very few Americans go to a foreign country, esp Asia, learn the language and culture, etc. I would advise you to maybe moving to a part of the US where many Asians live, so you can stay current on your language skillz and take the postbac route. Many IMGs will tell you that it is difficult getting into certain residencies (although the infamous Dr.Cuts is a success story)😀

 

[lovefactory2000]

I don't know how serious you are about studying Medicine in Japan...but if you are, I really suggest you think long and hard before you get your hopes up too high. Not that I'm trying to be dismissive or anything, but Japanese medical schools are tough...I know this becuz I'm a native Japanese (born and raised there). I think a lot of guys on this thread suggested them too, but these are some points you might wanna consider:

---A sound knowledge of Japanese is a big MUST. Entrance exams, interviews (depending on the type of entrance exam taken), pre-clinical classes, clinical rotations, charts, etc....everything will be in Japanese. I mean, I'm a native Japanese and grew up there so I'm totally fluent with Japanese (I live in it whenever I go back to Japan). But I can tell you that studying medicine is a totally different scenario. Like, academic Japanese is really complicated and writing composition in Japanese at university level is not easy. In addition, you would have to know all the medical (and pre-clinical) terminology in Japanese and that is going to be a nightmare. Like can you imagine memorizing stuff like the different lymph node groups in Japanese? Oh...and at the entrance exams, one of the required subject in most universities is ancient Japanese (kinda like Old English, I'd say) and I can tell you that that is like a totally different language...even most Japanese high school kids struggle with it...and I certainly had no clue when I was shown a copy.

---The entrance exams are really really difficult and getting in is not easy. Yes, there are many medical schools in Japan but that doesn't mean that some of them are easy to get into. I mean, there are thousands of Japanese high school kids applying to those medical schools every year, and the competition for those places are getting fierce every year. Even the most-lowly ranked medical schools get tons of applications. In addition, you really wanna check the requirements necessary to sit the entrance exams...because most universities (med schools) require that you have a high school diploma from a Japanese high school in order to take the entrance exams.

---A word about public and private universities. In Japan, public universities are funded by the government so tuition is substantially cheaper than goin to private universities. But bear in mind that most Japanese know this so everyone applies to public universities...thereby driving the competition to unbelievably competitive levels at almost every single public universities. Also, private universities are equally difficult to get into...and their examinations really aren't a mere formality...because people who couldn't get into public universities and those who can afford to pay more (and there are loads of them in Japan) all go for private universities. I mean, I'm sure this holds true for American medical schools too (ie. regardless of public or private, all med schools are hard to get into).

---Medical schools in Japan are 6 years and it doesn't matter whether you have a degree or not. Everyone spends 6 years in medical school. Plus when you graduate, you have to take the Japanese national medical licensure exam (kinda like the Japanese USMLE) in order to obtain a medical license (the degree by itself is no good). I'm not sure whether this exam is required for ECFMG-licensure, but it's worth checkin out.

---It is very expensive living in Japan...no kidding.

Based on these, I don't think it would be a good idea applyin to Japanese medical schools..it certainly is not an easy option and you'd really be askin for trouble if you're not completely fluent in Japanese to start with. I mean, I'm Japanese and Japan's my home...but I didn't even consider med schools in Japan. Just my two cents.

 

[my alias]

well i think everyone has had made a lot of good points in that this is obviously not the easiest route to take. but dave, if this is what you want, and this will make you happy, then i say go for it. people from japan come here every day and learn medicine and science in our language. keep doing your research, talk to some schools, find out if its possible. good luck. by the way i read on another thread that you've done some backpacking. i'm thinking central or south america sometime soon. pm me if you have any pertinent experiences with these places.

 

[WanderingDave]

good thoughts guys. much appreciated. Just talked to the chairman of the board at the school where I work here in Taiwan. I asked him about medical school here, and he said I'd have to be cracked to even try it, for all the same reasons as lovefactory2000 gave for Japan. This is a conservative, private, hard to get into jr-sr high we're talking here, and he told me that if the school had ONE STUDENT get into a Taiwanese med school, they'd have an award ceremony for him/her , that's how hard it is.

A test in ancient Chinese (totally different grammar from modern Chinese) and Chinese history, thousands of applicants for each slot, and a lot of money to pay. He let me know I'd need to know about 10000 Chinese characters AT LEAST to be a doctor. He gave the interesting and very believeable observation that in the Chinese world (and in Japan and Korea too I'd bet), doctors and scientists are the people in society who know the largest number of characters and words. I could converse with anybody in Chinese or Japanese on a lot of different topics, and I could read the paper, but that's a bit different from talking about cellular structures (like TexasGuy41 mentioned about Italian).

I'm going to apply in the US. Foreign schools are a bit much on the old brain. Doesn't mean I can't end up working abroad (and still traveling and learning languages whenever possible), but med school is already hard -- why try carrying two very heavy stones at once?

If I end up at the right school, I doubt it'll be too hard to find people I can speak with to keep up my Chinese and Japanese. Many med schools in the US are pretty international these days. And if I prepared for a couple years and kept up my languages, I could maybe take a licensing exam in another country. (Would go for an American one too.) That could open up some options.

my alias, I've done Mexico and Guatemala, but that was when I was only a kid. My family volunteered to do some environmental protection work down there. Other than that I've just done Eastern Europe, East Asia, and Southeast Asia. I'd love to do the Southern Cone countries all the way down to Tiera del Fuego by road for a year, but I don't feel like I have another year to kill writing, taking pics, and teaching English. If you go definitely take pics, make a webpage, and have a hell of a good time. Just watch it getting thru Colombia. 😱

 

[Stephen Ewen]

Quite a few of the better Chinese med schools are open to non-Chinese, and even include two years of Chinese lang study prior the med school portion.

 

[The Pill Counter]

I'm assuming from your posts your fluent in English and living in Taipei. If so, then why haven't Australian schools been a natural choice? Already, there are plenty of students from Hong Kong, Taiwan, China, Malaysia and Singapore, some who've come for the course, and some who are now Australian.

 

[WanderingDave]

Stephen, don't get me wrong, Mainland China is an exciting place to travel and even live for awhile. Yunnan province is as dear to my heart as upstate NY. But I'm not gonna pretend for a minute that place is going to stay stable for another 4-6 years. Call me a kooky conspiracy theorist, but there is a monster revolution about to hit that place, cos a lot of people are unhappy, and Papa Communism is sitting there with his finger up his ear. It's anyone's guess what happens after that. Not the most ideal place to have an MD from.

If I were to take advantage of my Chinese language, I'd do something in Taiwan or SE Asia. Though that won't be med school itself, I could see myself working there if I get an opportunity. Asia is a pretty chill place to live and work, most of the time, as long as you don't play the jerk American.

Good point pillcounter. They've got to be decent in Australia. Could do school breaks in Indonesia if I felt like it too (another country that's great to visit, but isn't the place to set up camp for years on end)