Med Student Burnout Stemming From App Cycle?

[965978]

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I haven’t seen any discussion about this but this is a topic that I have been wondering about for a while.

It seems that there are many people going to medical school that have had an extremely stressful app cycle experience (in several cases even going through multiple cycles). Has anyone wondered if this can contribute to burnout in medical school?

I personally know of two people that didn’t get into med school until two weeks before orientation and both of them have had an extremely difficult time in medical school because all the app cycle stress and damage was immediately replaced with M1 related stress.

Is there any data on this?

I think it would be great to see if there is a correlation between date of first acceptance versus feelings of mental health. Or even data to see number of app cycles versus feelings of mental health.

 

[puahate]

You should do research on this

 

[965978]

You should do research on this

I’m actually planning to. When I become an M4, I’ll try to approach the appropriate person in the administration to see if I can do a research project by creating a detailed survey and requesting all med students to voluntarily fill it out.

Don’t know if the administration would be ok with that!

 

[siliso]

I suspect that people who just barely clawed their way into med school will be more likely than others to just barely claw their way through it, too, for the same reasons they struggled to get in. Not saying it’s true in every case.

 

[965978]

A quick research indication, which I am sure someone has done though likely not publicly released, is seeing if any correlation between STEP I and acceptance date. Since AAMC follows student via AMCAS ID thru this entire process up to and including residency, it would be very quick to do.

They would have to do it for each MCAT score in order to solve the confounding factor that stronger students are more likely to get earlier acceptances.

 

[965978]

I suspect that people who just barely clawed their way into med school will be more likely than others to just barely claw their way through it, too, for the same reasons they struggled to get in. Not saying it’s true in every case.

There are hundreds of students with a LizzyM higher than 70 that barely get into med school but do just fine in med school.

 

[solitarius]

There are so many contributors to burnout in medical school, including the stuff that goes on in medical school.

I suspect the prospect of not matching into residency will become a real burnout issue in the near future.

 

[965978]

There are so many contributors to burnout in medical school, including the stuff that goes on in medical school.

I suspect the prospect of not matching into residency will become a real burnout issue in the near future.

Sometimes it feels like the doors are just “closing in” from all directions in the medical field.

Each step is becoming more and more difficult. Tuition and debt are rising. Doctors are more worried about insurance reimbursements than ever before.

 

[puahate]

Being a physician isn't worth it anymore.

 

[Goro]

I haven’t seen any discussion about this but this is a topic that I have been wondering about for a while.

It seems that there are many people going to medical school that have had an extremely stressful app cycle experience (in several cases even going through multiple cycles). Has anyone wondered if this can contribute to burnout in medical school?

I personally know of two people that didn’t get into med school until two weeks before orientation and both of them have had an extremely difficult time in medical school because all the app cycle stress and damage was immediately replaced with M1 related stress.

Is there any data on this?

I think it would be great to see if there is a correlation between date of first acceptance versus feelings of mental health. Or even data to see number of app cycles versus feelings of mental health.

I don't see any signs of burnout in my students until Spring of OMSII. The combination of Boards angst, rotations angst and two years of grueling schooling seem to trigger significant fatigue. Some Classes handle it better than others.

Upon matriculation, people are excited. It's a new beginning, a rebirth so to speak, and they have achieved a very difficult goal.

Then they take their exam blocks and about 1/3rd of the Class realize that what worked in UG won't work for med school, so they have to find thier sweet spot for absorbing all that material, and then applying it. The weakest and most problematic students go right to the bottom and stay there.

 

[M&L]

Being a physician isn't worth it anymore.

why are you doing it then? 🙂

 

[M&L]

I don't see any signs of burnout in my students until Spring of OMSII. The combination of Boards angst, rotations angst and two years of grueling schooling seem to trigger significant fatigue. Some Classes handle it better than others.

Upon matriculation, people are excited. It's a new beginning, a rebirth so to speak, and they have achieved a very difficult goal.

Then they take their exam blocks and about 1/3rd of the Class realize that what worked in UG won't work for med school, so they have to find thier sweet spot for absorbing all that material, and then applying it. The weakest and most problematic students go right to the bottom and stay there.

may i ask you a question? how to tell early on that your study method is not working for you? also, the material : what percentage of it would you say is memorizing, and which is conceptualizing?

 

[Goro]

may i ask you a question? how to tell early on that your study method is not working for you? also, the material : what percentage of it would you say is memorizing, and which is conceptualizing?

your first two exams should let you know what you're doing is right or wrong.

The amount of memory verses concept will depend on the subject, but as a rule of thumb there's a lot of memorization to be done in medical school

 

[M&L]

your first two exams should let you know what you're doing is right or wrong.

The amount of memory verses concept will depend on the subject, but as a rule of thumb there's a lot of memorization to be done in medical school

thank you! so if i dont do good from the first exams, start "digging" into studying strategy. Got it.

 

[siliso]

There are hundreds of students with a LizzyM higher than 70 that barely get into med school but do just fine in med school.

Thus the qualifiers I tried to add to my statement to begin with. Some people, either from aiming a little high or by luck of the draw, will get in late or after a stressful wait even though they have more than enough intellectual capability, evidenced by their academic and test performance, to succeed with no problems once they get there. However, people who got in somewhere by the skin of their teeth with just barely enough intellectual and personal capacities to succeed are *more likely* (not guaranteed) to ride the struggle bus all the way through classes and steps and matching than people who sailed in without bumps. I’ve seen it IRL among my old classmates. *And but also* the struggle bus riders can and do end up as great caring licensed physicians, also seen IRL. I imagine this qualifier will also be ignored in response, but I can say I tried.

 

[siliso]

Also concept mapping is an aid to memorization. Factoids stick better in a conceptual context. And even better with high order thinking retrieval practice, aka questions and more questions.

 

[siliso]

Finally, if you’re already burned out and jaded and disillusioned and feeling it’s not worth it while applying - it’s not for you, quit while you’re ahead and build yourself a satisfying future outside medicine. It’s natural to feel some burnout at some points in your training because it is legit hard sometimes. But if you’re already burned out before even starting med school rather than enthusiastic and excited to pursue your calling, quit tormenting yourself and find what else to do before you feel trapped by debt and sunk costs.

 

[965978]

Finally, if you’re already burned out and jaded and disillusioned and feeling it’s not worth it while applying - it’s not for you, quit while you’re ahead and build yourself a satisfying future outside medicine. It’s natural to feel some burnout at some points in your training because it is legit hard sometimes. But if you’re already burned out before even starting med school rather than enthusiastic and excited to pursue your calling, quit tormenting yourself and find what else to do before you feel trapped by debt and sunk costs.

I feel like if I do get in sometime either in May or June, I will be in a very strong position to start school because I’ll be taking a few weeks off work to decompress.

 

[puahate]

Just jokes

why are you doing it then? 🙂

 

[siliso]

I feel like if I do get in sometime either in May or June, I will be in a very strong position to start school because I’ll be taking a few weeks off work to decompress.

I hope you do get in and you do get yourself in a positive enthusiastic place to get started if medicine is truly your calling and the best use of your talents in your own estimation. Hopefully this year or if not then next year, **** happens. All the best wishes to you.

 

[965978]

I hope you do get in and you do get yourself in a positive enthusiastic place to get started if medicine is truly your calling and the best use of your talents in your own estimation. Hopefully this year or if not then next year, **** happens. All the best wishes to you.

Thank you! I strongly believe that medicine really truly is my calling and it’s the only thing I can imagine myself doing. And I think that’s why the stress impact of having a failed cycle is hefty for me because I’m terrified at the thought of not being able to go into medicine 🙁

 

[M&L]

Thank you! I strongly believe that medicine really truly is my calling and it’s the only thing I can imagine myself doing. And I think that’s why the stress impact of having a failed cycle is hefty for me because I’m terrified at the thought of not being able to go into medicine 🙁

well, you are still on those waitlists, right? something will start happening any day now!