Med Students and Idealism

[theduke]

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I've talked to many med students who mention a loss of idealism from the onset of med school to the end of med school. Why does this happen?

 

[8744]

Originally posted by theduke
I've talked to many med students who mention a loss of idealism from the onset of med school to the end of med school. Why does this happen?

Because your expectations are too high and cannot withstand the onslaught of reality.

For example, it sounds good when you're a sheltered undergrad to swear that you won't sell out and will work as a doctor for $45,000 per year in a poor neighborhood. After about six mnths of medical school you realize that you will be working your tail off for the next seven to nine years (depending on your speciality) for little to no pay while the people you swore to champion swill the Mad Dog and watch Jerry Springer (and act it out, too.)

 

[Stinger86]

Originally posted by theduke
I've talked to many med students who mention a loss of idealism from the onset of med school to the end of med school. Why does this happen?

Because as people go through medical school, they begin to realize that they're really just going through 10 extra years to be a glorified servant of the people.

Seriously, I got sick of hearing peers of mine pipe up in Ethics class about how they don't see the harm in bypassing a competent patient's decisions if it'll help him (the patient) in the long run. Geezus, you just can't do that, and a lot of people have a problem with learning all this information and not being able to fully utilize it unless someone says you can.

But that's the reality of medicine. In the past two years, I've learned a lot about the little nuances of medicine that I never thought about before, and I'm sure others have too. I think it's good that people become less idealistic in medical school, because I'd be scared to death to have one of my idealistic ("I know what's the best for you regardless of what you think") classmates as my doctor down the road.

 

[NonTradMed]

Originally posted by Panda Bear
Because your expectations are too high and cannot withstand the onslaught of reality.

For example, it sounds good when you're a sheltered undergrad to swear that you won't sell out and will work as a doctor for $45,000 per year in a poor neighborhood. After about six mnths of medical school you realize that you will be working your tail off for the next seven to nine years (depending on your speciality) for little to no pay while the people you swore to champion swill the Mad Dog and watch Jerry Springer (and act it out, too.)

I don't disagree that most premeds will realize one cannot be completely altruistic, and a job such as medicine requires some sort of financial compensation for the years of training and hard work....but I think your characterization is a bit extreme. Most med students understand how much they will be making, but many feel they are entering medicine for more than JUST money and prestige (which are pretty shallow reasons for intelligent people to enter into any profession IMHO).

This is true for many professions people enter. You temper your idealism with a healthy dose of reality but still have enough to retain some remnents of your original ideals. I know some premeds that want to work in underserved areas, while others do not, and I know doctors who burn out from working in inner city hospitals while others are happy to be there.....so while most will temper their initial idealism for medicine I think plenty still hold on to their main wish of 'helping people'----whether it be in surbuban practices or places where patients "swill the Mad Dog and watch Jerry Springer ".

To the OT:
Most premeds are idealistic, but that is true for college students in general. There is nothing wrong with idealism b/c a cynical person at such a young age will have nothing to work toward later in life. I don't believe it's med school that changes peoples' attitudes so much as the process of growing up. You "live and learn" and you set new priorities. That means learning about what it takes to financially support a family and putting their needs ahead of your career goals. It means learning what it feels to work your butt off and endure the daily grind, that in any job, it's still a 'job' with its accompanying headaches.

 

[NonTradMed]

double post 😳

 

[carrigallen]

I agree with Non-Trad. Maybe it is less a process of loss of idealism, as it is a process of gain of maturity? At least, this is what I hope it will be, but maybe I am being too idealistic. 😉

 

[8744]

Originally posted by NonTradMed
I don't disagree that most premeds will realize one cannot be completely altruistic, and a job such as medicine requires some sort of financial compensation for the years of training and hard work....but I think your characterization is a bit extreme. Most med students understand how much they will be making, but many feel they are entering medicine for more than JUST money and prestige (which are pretty shallow reasons for intelligent people to enter into any profession IMHO).

This is true for many professions people enter. You temper your idealism with a healthy dose of reality but still have enough to retain some remnents of your original ideals. I know some premeds that want to work in underserved areas, while others do not, and I know doctors who burn out from working in inner city hospitals while others are happy to be there.....so while most will temper their initial idealism for medicine I think plenty still hold on to their main wish of 'helping people'----whether it be in surbuban practices or places where patients "swill the Mad Dog and watch Jerry Springer ".

To the OT:
Most premeds are idealistic, but that is true for college students in general. There is nothing wrong with idealism b/c a cynical person at such a young age will have nothing to work toward later in life. I don't believe it's med school that changes peoples' attitudes so much as the process of growing up. You "live and learn" and you set new priorities. That means learning about what it takes to financially support a family and putting their needs ahead of your career goals. It means learning what it feels to work your butt off and endure the daily grind, that in any job, it's still a 'job' with its accompanying headaches.

You are, of course, correct and I also agree with most of what you wrote. I just think that if a pre-med student expects his experience in medical school to be complete immersion in the nobility of the healer's art then he is setting himself up for disappointment.


Also, if you don't like medicine for it's own sake you will be devestatingly unhappy in medical school.

 

[Galaxian]

One of my professors once told me that you should dedicate at least 10% of your practice to charity (i.e. taking care of indigent patients with no insurance, money, etc.); then you should dedicate another 5-10% on studying, because you should be up to date on your knowledge to be a good doctor. The rest of the time, make the money you deserve after all those hard years of sacrifice. In medicine, as in life, it's all about balance, and that's some sound advice...

 

[aphistis]

Originally posted by Galaxian
One of my professors once told me that you should dedicate at least 10% of your practice to charity (i.e. taking care of indigent patients with no insurance, money, etc.); then you should dedicate another 5-10% on studying, because you should be up to date on your knowledge to be a good doctor. The rest of the time, make the money you deserve after all those hard years of sacrifice. In medicine, as in life, it's all about balance, and that's some sound advice...

That's a fantastic rule of thumb, as far as I'm concerned. Props to your prof (assuming he doesn't completely suck aside from that gem)!

 

[Wrigleyville]

Originally posted by theduke
I've talked to many med students who mention a loss of idealism from the onset of med school to the end of med school. Why does this happen?

Lack of real-world experience and insulation from reality.

 

[5oProlene]

I know a few people who maintained their idealism and did not let med school make them into a cynical, bitter person like you so often see. For example, one guy who was AOA with a 250-something USMLE score and who could have virtually matched into most competetive residency programs decided to instead keep with his dream and is now a missionary doctor somewhere in Central America. And this is just one case. There are more like him I could tell you about. So don't think you have to follow the herd and give up your idealism for a generic residency and a future HMO job like most med students settle for.

 

[oldtimer]

Since I haven't started school yet, I don't know how med school saps a person's idealism, but I know that working sure does. As you gain more work experience, you become more jaded and cynical about your company's leadership and the motives of the people around you. I've gotten knives stuck in my back, figuratively, and been lied to too many times by upper management. I was in Houston when the whole Enron/Aurther Andersen fiasco broke. To allay their employee fears, the Houston Andersen managers would convene a meeting at the end of each day in this small auditorium in the underground tunnel system. Each day, I would walk pass it and hear how the leaders would tell the workers that their problems were isolated and would go away soon. Those workers who bought that story hook, line, and sinker were worse for it as everyone knows now. People need to have balance in their lives and know what your priorities are. And, finally, take what your leaders tell you with a grain of salt.

 

[quackdoc]

This isnt the last word in keeping idealism for idealism sake doctors.At one point of time as a human one needs to be compensated for the pains and sacrifices one makes through the med school.However the trick is to keep a balance of issues.If one is determined not to be a part of the system and sticks his or her neck out of it,it makes sense to keep idealism intact.However its not fooling anyone but yourself if the so called idealistic values seem to desert you.Its either there or not there.One should not try and keep pretences about the same.I feel that way.But as I said this isnt the last word on that.