Med students on rotation

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DermMatch

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A bit of advice, as I've seen good med students and poor med students on rotation.

Don't comment on the adequacy of your resident's technique during a procedure in front of the patient. It comes across as critical, even though you're couching it in a "I'm just inquiring" kind of way.

Don't interfere with the procedure you're supposed to observe. Don't assist if you don't know what you're doing. And if a resident says, "Don't do that," please stop -- don't keep trying. Didn't we learn to listen in kindergarten? If the resident isn't slapping you down as you're jumping all over the procedure messing it up, it's not because he isn't irritated at you - it's because he's too polite to snarl at you in front of the patient, and he's doing you the favor of not embarrassing you in front of the attending present.

Get your facts straight. If you've sat in on a lecture, Grand Rounds, or conference, and you want to chat about it with an attending in an effort to impress them, please do not go around misinterpreting the basic facts about what was discussed, especially in front of people who were there.

Yes, there is such a thing as a stupid question, even though attendings are too nice to say so. Because we residents hear your stupid questions, and wonder why you haven't bothered to learn the basics of the particular disease or biology you're asking about.

Now for the good characteristics:

Helpful in an unobstrusive way without being prompted.

Knowledgeable.

Anticipating a resident's needs and meeting them.

Earnest.

In meeting med students along the way, I've concluded that some of the positive and negative behavior I've seen on rotations is simply based on character and personality -- things you cannot easily change. Those who are irritating do not have the personal insight to realize they are irritating.
 
whatever dude
 
Would appreciate feedback from other residents...do you all feel this way?

Anyway, it was irritating when other rotators had pre-printed articles in her pocket, asked a question to the attending, then presented the article and corrected the attending in front of all the other rotators and residents. Yes, this actually happened (more than once).

What do other female (okay, and male) residents think about rotators who have really nice jewelry, hot clothes, meticulous makeup, and high heels?

*face-palm*
 
Would appreciate feedback from other residents...do you all feel this way?

Anyway, it was irritating when other rotators had pre-printed articles in her pocket, asked a question to the attending, then presented the article and corrected the attending in front of all the other rotators and residents. Yes, this actually happened (more than once).

What do other female (okay, and male) residents think about rotators who have really nice jewelry, hot clothes, meticulous makeup, and high heels?

*face-palm*

Feel what way? That you shouldn't criticize people senior to you in front of patients/attendings? Yes, I'd say that's fair.

And as for the clothing and associated articles, I'd say that one should dress professionally. It isn't a fashion show. It's a medical clinic. If you don't know that by now, you have a lot to learn.

For the most part, I'd say that a "successful" student rotator will just be pleasant, courteous, interested, respectful, and helpful in a non-oppressive way.
 
I know it sounds irritating to some med students given we are only a few years ahead of you, but dermmatch is absolutely right.

Most of us residents don't have a huge say where they rank you but we definitely can keep you off the rank list. If a med student did what he's describing I (and probably 50% of residents) would make an active effort to keep you from matching - ie say negative things to the attendings. And all it takes is one negative comment.

Honestly there is one statement to summarize how to rotate:
- Don't be aggressive!

If you look hyper-competitive or overly intense I guarantee people will not like you. We (and the attendings) want people who are fun to work with, can carry on a normal conversation not about derm, are honest, hard working, helpful to colleagues. A distant, distant second we want someone knowelgeable about derm. You don't need to know anything about derm; that's what residency is for.
 
Feel what way? That you shouldn't criticize people senior to you in front of patients/attendings? Yes, I'd say that's fair.

Ok, backing off...🙄
I should have clarified. I was particularly focused on this line from the OP and the overall tone of the OP (ie, not friendly):
If the resident isn't slapping you down as you're jumping all over the procedure messing it up, it's not because he isn't irritated at you - it's because he's too polite to snarl at you in front of the patient, and he's doing you the favor of not embarrassing you in front of the attending present.

This is what I meant when I asked "do you all feel this way?" Wanna snarl at the rotators?

And as for the clothing and associated articles, I'd say that one should dress professionally. It isn't a fashion show. It's a medical clinic. If you don't know that by now, you have a lot to learn.
Sorry to disappoint you, but I know this by now. 😉 I am asking because so many female and male residents seem to think that derm residency is a fashion show...hello designer duds, flashy jewels, and made-to-measures...

For the most part, I'd say that a "successful" student rotator will just be pleasant, courteous, interested, respectful, and helpful in a non-oppressive way.
Agreed.
 
Tone not meant to be mean.

But it's highly irritating when a med student is actively messing up your procedure despite being told to stop more than once.

That would make anyone want to snap.

I'm sorry, but people should learn to take a hint. "Please don't" = "Stop what you are doing right now."
 
Tone not meant to be mean.

But it's highly irritating when a med student is actively messing up your procedure despite being told to stop more than once.

That would make anyone want to snap.

I'm sorry, but people should learn to take a hint. "Please don't" = "Stop what you are doing right now."

Ok. 🙂 I suppose I'll feel similarly when I'm at your stage...
 
Ok, backing off...🙄
I should have clarified. I was particularly focused on this line from the OP and the overall tone of the OP (ie, not friendly):
If the resident isn't slapping you down as you're jumping all over the procedure messing it up, it's not because he isn't irritated at you - it's because he's too polite to snarl at you in front of the patient, and he's doing you the favor of not embarrassing you in front of the attending present.

This is what I meant when I asked "do you all feel this way?" Wanna snarl at the rotators?

Sorry to disappoint you, but I know this by now. 😉 I am asking because so many female and male residents seem to think that derm residency is a fashion show...hello designer duds, flashy jewels, and made-to-measures...

Agreed.
😱 no way!
 
😱 no way!
Way!

Heck, I even saw *male candidates* wearing (for example) Ferragamo belts and shoes on INTERVIEW.

The few places I rotated at (all in big cities), most, if not all, female residents were done up in blatant designer or high-quality textiles with sparkly jewelry, high heels...etc etc. And big, big diamond e-rings. I'm talking 3+ carats. Everybody looked really pretty. 95% of the time they looked professional except on Grand Rounds day...then it's a free-for-all.

I dare not wear anything designer. Not until 3rd year at least, lol!
 
If you look hyper-competitive or overly intense I guarantee people will not like you. We (and the attendings) want people who are fun to work with, can carry on a normal conversation not about derm, are honest, hard working, helpful to colleagues. A distant, distant second we want someone knowelgeable about derm. You don't need to know anything about derm; that's what residency is for.

I can't stress how important this is (especially for those currently doing or about to start rotations as 4th years)

As someone who is laidback (some could argue overly so), I really struggled during my 3rd year clerkships especially in the fields that typically value the uber-aggressive students: OBGYN, surgery, etc...

But it seemed to really work in my favor during my dermatology rotations.
 
lol about the big jewelry and designer shoes. when i rotated, a lot of the female rotators dressed up like crazy like it was a fashion show. it made me want to go shopping. i admit i dressed up too, but i was smart and wanted to keep my style one notch below the female residents so as to not annoy them.

when i'm a derm resident next year, i'm gonna bust out my designer duds now. hahaha. 😛
 
I would actually suggest medical students NOT wear designer clothes. I never cared personally, but have heard some of my co-residents say things like "who does she think she is"

They never seemed to care if someone was modestly and professionally dressed. But the ones who were over the top.... it did seem to annoy some of my co-residents.

You never know ... that "cute shoes" comment from a resident might be "why are you wearing those to surgery?" in disguise.
 
I would actually suggest medical students NOT wear designer clothes. I never cared personally, but have heard some of my co-residents say things like "who does she think she is"

They never seemed to care if someone was modestly and professionally dressed. But the ones who were over the top.... it did seem to annoy some of my co-residents.

You never know ... that "cute shoes" comment from a resident might be "why are you wearing those to surgery?" in disguise.

exactly... thats why i would save those cute shoes till you're a derm resident. i really think it could hurt you to be too over the top as a med student. especially since the attendings in academics tend to be more anti-cosmetics.
 
exactly... thats why i would save those cute shoes till you're a derm resident. i really think it could hurt you to be too over the top as a med student. especially since the attendings in academics tend to be more anti-cosmetics.

Agree. Also wear shoes that don't click. Avoid *high* heels (3+ inches), they look...um, skanky. Especially on interview.
 
lol about the big jewelry and designer shoes. when i rotated, a lot of the female rotators dressed up like crazy like it was a fashion show. it made me want to go shopping. i admit i dressed up too, but i was smart and wanted to keep my style one notch below the female residents so as to not annoy them.

when i'm a derm resident next year, i'm gonna bust out my designer duds now. hahaha. 😛

Did you ever go shopping for a new designer bag after we all Matched? If I have you mixed up with someone else, please forgive.
 
Did you ever go shopping for a new designer bag after we all Matched? If I have you mixed up with someone else, please forgive.

LOL, it wasn't me! I wished for a vacation to an exotic locale to take photographs and camera gear...and my wish was fulfilled!
 
Did you ever go shopping for a new designer bag after we all Matched? If I have you mixed up with someone else, please forgive.

hahahha, good memory! i opted for an LV bag. 😀 was deciding between LV vs gucci, but felt like a baller that day so went for the $800 LV bag. hahah, will definitely not be carrying that to clinic next yr. wouldn't wanna annoy anyone. :meanie:
 
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