medical license after contract non-renewal/residency dismissal

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I'm reapplying to residencies in a different specialty after my contract was not renewed from my previous program. I also wanted to leave the program to train in another specialty. I completed two years of training (one prelim, one advanced.) I have a few interviews and am now wondering if I will have difficulty getting a license in the state where I obtain a new residency (most likely NY or MD). I will have a supportive letter from my last program director to send to the board describing the situation and stating that they thought I was better suited for another specialty, no misconduct, etc. Has anyone had experience with this? Is there anything I can do to increase my chances? Any states where it might be easier to obtain a license?
 
While every application I've seen asks about any academic discipline or being dismissed from a program, unless it was for untreated drug/ETOH, felonies or academic dishonesty, I can't say I've heard of being denied a license simply due to being terminated from a program, especially for the reasons you gave.
 
I know someone who did get denied a license and it was not for one of the reasons listed above...well not outright denied by have been waiting x 8 months now and I'm not sure he'll be able to get the license. I would say if the OP gets into another program, he'll probably not have trouble getting a license, though. More likely than not he will not have a problem unless his old program director or program tries to poison his licensing application...if they give the licensing board all the relevant data that is requested, and don't say/state that he shouldn't be license, he'll probably be able to get a license.
 
Winged Scapula said:
DF do you mind sharing what you think the reason and state your friend is trying to get the license in? That might be helpful.
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Yeah, I was thinking that, too - "well, it's a different problem and I'm going to be REALLY vague about it", to the point of not being applicable to the OP.
 
Winged Scapula said:
While every application I've seen asks about any academic discipline or being dismissed from a program, unless it was for untreated drug/ETOH, felonies or academic dishonesty, I can't say I've heard of being denied a license simply due to being terminated from a program, especially for the reasons you gave.
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What happens , if your licence is abandoned, due to leaving the program after 1 month of starting.program
 
unlucky said:
What happens , if your licence is abandoned, due to leaving the program after 1 month of starting.program
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If a person has a training license, the license is only valid while one is a trainee. Now, whether it lapses or becomes inactive or expires, of that I am not sure (as to what would be required if one was to resume training in the same state - would that person have to go through the licensing procedure de novo?).
 
NY doesn't have a training license. So you shouldn't have a problem as a resident.
 
Apollyon said:
If a person has a training license, the license is only valid while one is a trainee. Now, whether it lapses or becomes inactive or expires, of that I am not sure (as to what would be required if one was to resume training in the same state - would that person have to go through the licensing procedure de novo?).
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If you allow a license to expire, then yes...Start from square 1 again.

Inactive status usually only requires fees and to show required CME.

This is why we are all taught not to let licenses expire, but to rather put them on Inactive status.
 
Winged Scapula said:
If you allow a license to expire, then yes...Start from square 1 again.

Inactive status usually only requires fees and to show required CME.

This is why we are all taught not to let licenses expire, but to rather put them on Inactive status.
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But that is the question as to which I wonder: as it is a training license, and not a full license, is it the same? Since today is Saturday, and offices are closed (and, moreover, I am disinterested), I don't know when I'll find an answer.
 
Apollyon said:
But that is the question as to which I wonder: as it is a training license, and not a full license, is it the same? Since today is Saturday, and offices are closed (and, moreover, I am disinterested), I don't know when I'll find an answer.
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I don't think training licenses have "inactive statuses", at least they didn't in Pennsy.

And since we do not know what state the OP is talking about (not all have training licenses), I'm not sure its relevant.
 
Winged Scapula said:
I don't think training licenses have "inactive statuses", at least they didn't in Pennsy.

And since we do not know what state the OP is talking about (not all have training licenses), I'm not sure its relevant.
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Mine in NC is listed as "inactive".
 
Thanks for the responses. I do feel a bit better about this now. I had an interview in New York State, and I got the impression that since the residency I am applying for begins after completion on PGY1, I would need to obtain a full license in the state before starting the program.
 
I did get accepted to a new program, but now I am in the process of applying to be an unlicensed trainee which is required in the state of my residency. Is there anyone else out there who has had any experience with a situation like this? I'm a little worried about setting up housing, etc., without knowing if it will be approved, but it isn't an unrestricted license so I don't know how stringent the requirements are.
 
I have a question related to the topic of this thread I was hoping someone here might have similar experience with. I haven't been able to find anything either searching the SDN forums or the Web.

My understanding is that non-renewal of contract and termination are, at least in legal terms, treated differently. In medicine it may be a distinction without a difference but my question is how the two are treated in regards to medical licensure application. I've noticed some state medical boards specifically ask if an applicant's contract has ever not been renewed by a training program, but most seem to only refer to whether an applicant's training was "terminated".

Has anyone here had experience or know someone who has been in a similar situation that applied to a state that asks only whether the applicant's training was "terminated", but that applicant wasn't terminated but instead had their contract not renewed? Should they answer "yes" even if they weren't technically "terminated", but their training effectively was by the contract non-renewal?
 
This is going to vary state by state. Termination is always going to result in further scrutiny. "Contract non-renewal" can mean several things -- 1) you finished a program and hence there is no further contract; 2) you left after the end of a year, decided to train somewhere else / a different field, and your performance was fine; 3) your performance wasn't fine, and your contract wasn't renewed; and probably a bunch of other options. All states are going to want documentation from your prior residency programs, and the full story is likely to come out regardless of the questions asked on the forms.
 
Thanks for the response. From the context and the way I phrased the question I assume it's obvious that option 3 applies, however, I feel a bit like I'm stuck in no man's land. My contract was not renewed, but I received credit for my PGY-1 year and my PD evaluation for the year was reported as satisfactory overall and in all ACGME core competencies. There was no disciplinary action (e.g. probation, remediation) taken. The post-graduate training verification form from the medical board simply asks for level of training, dates, and for each level of training whether it was successfully completed.

I don't see how my program could provide the board with unfavorable information and then reconcile that with the fact that they have documented that I successfully completed 12 months of my PGY-1 with a satisfactory evaluation.
 
jh2006 said:
Thanks for the response. From the context and the way I phrased the question I assume it's obvious that option 3 applies, however, I feel a bit like I'm stuck in no man's land. My contract was not renewed, but I received credit for my PGY-1 year and my PD evaluation for the year was reported as satisfactory overall and in all ACGME core competencies. There was no disciplinary action (e.g. probation, remediation) taken. The post-graduate training verification form from the medical board simply asks for level of training, dates, and for each level of training whether it was successfully completed.

I don't see how my program could provide the board with unfavorable information and then reconcile that with the fact that they have documented that I successfully completed 12 months of my PGY-1 with a satisfactory evaluation.
Click to expand...

It depends upon the program, and the state/form. If the form only asks for dates, then that's all they may report. If there are questions that probe more deeply, then they may report more.

Regardless, the only plan forward seems to be to apply and see what happens. What other plan is there?

Also depends upon whether you're trying to get a license/work with just a PGY-1, or trying to secure a PGY-2. Once you get a program to accept you as a PGY-2, they will help you get a license.
 
I am applying with just my PGY-1 year. I have tried, but unfortunately not been able to obtain a PGY-2 position. For each year of training, the PGT verification form only requests the dates and whether it was successfully completed. There is a question requesting an explanation if the training program wasn't successfully completed, but I'm not sure how this would apply to me. I don't know whether this question would apply to someone like me who matched categorical and successfully completed their internship, but whose contract was not renewed and didn't complete the program, or whether it is directed at someone who didn't successfully complete one of the years of training because of a resignation, termination, etc. Since the form asks for a breakdown of each year of training and whether it was successfully completed rather than simply when training began and ended, it is confusing.

I'm wary because I don't want to disclose something that is not specifically being asked if I'm not obligated too since it may significantly delay the application process, but also I certainly would not and don't even want it to appear that I am trying to withhold information that is being requested. There seems to be quite a bit of variance among medical boards in the questions asked and their phrasing with some being much more specific. It would be helpful if some were less ambiguous.

I guess you are right the only plan forward is to just apply and see. I was just hoping for some anecdotal advice from others who may have been in a similar situation or knew someone who had.

Thanks for the advice and hope everyone enjoys/enjoyed their Thanksgiving.
 
Winged Scapula said:
If you allow a license to expire, then yes...Start from square 1 again.

Inactive status usually only requires fees and to show required CME.

This is why we are all taught not to let licenses expire, but to rather put them on Inactive status.
Click to expand...
This ends up being more of an issue in some states than others. Some states give you discounts for being inactive that are quite reasonable, and there's no reason to let the license expire.

OTOH others, CA for example, have an inactive status for licensed MDs... if you pay the full fees. The only thing that status does in CA is it exempts you from is requirements to submit your CME to the CA board. If one had no desire to return to the state in the near future, it might be reasonable to let the license expire rather than pay $400+/year forever. Just one would have to understand, if they ever returned to CA, it would take forever and a day to get your license back and would probably be best served applying looooong in advance. And I say this as someone who recently paid his $820 in blood price just in case he returns to CA later on.
 
jh2006 said:
I am applying with just my PGY-1 year. I have tried, but unfortunately not been able to obtain a PGY-2 position. For each year of training, the PGT verification form only requests the dates and whether it was successfully completed. There is a question requesting an explanation if the training program wasn't successfully completed, but I'm not sure how this would apply to me. I don't know whether this question would apply to someone like me who matched categorical and successfully completed their internship, but whose contract was not renewed and didn't complete the program, or whether it is directed at someone who didn't successfully complete one of the years of training because of a resignation, termination, etc. Since the form asks for a breakdown of each year of training and whether it was successfully completed rather than simply when training began and ended, it is confusing.

I'm wary because I don't want to disclose something that is not specifically being asked if I'm not obligated too since it may significantly delay the application process, but also I certainly would not and don't even want it to appear that I am trying to withhold information that is being requested. There seems to be quite a bit of variance among medical boards in the questions asked and their phrasing with some being much more specific. It would be helpful if some were less ambiguous.

I guess you are right the only plan forward is to just apply and see. I was just hoping for some anecdotal advice from others who may have been in a similar situation or knew someone who had.

Thanks for the advice and hope everyone enjoys/enjoyed their Thanksgiving.
Click to expand...

The most important thing is that your description matches whatever your program will submit.
 
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