Medical school for a Veteran.

[mart1187]

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Hello my name is Oscar. I served in the US Army for 5 years before medically retiring. I have always been interested in the medical sciences. I am now 25 years young and starting this long adventure with a family of 4, along with all the financial stresses. I don't consider myself smart or dumb. My School GPA was 3.6, and I feel like I could have done better if I would have been motivated. I will be starting the pre-med stuff this year.
I guess I am reaching out to you the readers, and hoping someone has a similar experience. I am really nervous about this and would love to talk to someone and learn from their experience.

 

[Loveless]

I'm not a veteran myself, but it's my understanding that veterans get much love from adcoms. If you can maintain that 3.6 throughout your pre-reqs and get a 30+ MCAT, you should have absolutely no problem getting a spot so long as you don't completely bomb your interviews.

 

[487806]

I'm not a veteran myself, but it's my understanding that veterans get much love from adcoms. If you can maintain that 3.6 throughout your pre-reqs and get a 30+ MCAT, you should have absolutely no problem getting a spot so long as you don't completely bomb your interviews.

This exactly. I read somewhere that serving in the military is adding 5 LizzyM points to your score.

So, OP's case will be like LizzyM score = (GPA*10) + MCAT + 5. If OP got at least a 30+ on the MCAT, he's definitely all set.

Thanks for your service OP. You are definitely a hero in my book.

 

[mart1187]

I'm not a veteran myself, but it's my understanding that veterans get much love from adcoms. If you can maintain that 3.6 throughout your pre-reqs and get a 30+ MCAT, you should have absolutely no problem getting a spot so long as you don't completely bomb your interviews.

loveless, yes I have heard that myself. I have l lots of experiences to pull from and make my interview interesting, so I think I will do o.k. with that part. Thank you for the reply.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Check out the non-trad forum. There are at least a few former military people that post there.

 

[mart1187]

This exactly. I read somewhere that serving in the military is adding 5 LizzyM points to your score.

So, OP's case will be like LizzyM score = (GPA*10) + MCAT + 5. If OP got at least a 30+ on the MCAT, he's definitely all set.

Thanks for your service OP. You are definitely a hero in my book.

Thank you so much for the motivation Agent B.

 

[alpinism]

This exactly. I read somewhere that serving in the military is adding 5 LizzyM points to your score.

So, OP's case will be like LizzyM score = (GPA*10) + MCAT + 5. If OP got at least a 30+ on the MCAT, he's definitely all set.

Thanks for your service OP. You are definitely a hero in my book.

Eh it depends on the school. Some love vets, others view it as just another EC like being a college athlete or doing a research fellowship.

I wouldn't say it adds 5 pts to your score, you still need to have a competitive GPA/MCAT first and foremost.

 

[487806]

Eh it depends on the school. Some love vets, others view it as just another EC like being a college athlete or doing a research fellowship.

I wouldn't say it adds 5 pts to your score, you still need to have a competitive GPA/MCAT first and foremost.

Are you serious? I would search for those schools and avoid them at all costs. Serving in the armed forces is not "just an EC", and having such notion is a blatant disrespect (and a cruel insult).

 

[Milligan]

I am in the same boat, I will be getting out of the Navy this year and going to pre-med at Nova Southereastern. Family of four also, so I hope I do very well with my GPA and MCAT. Good luck

 

[Sophocles]

Are you serious? I would search for those schools and avoid them at all costs. Serving in the armed forces is not "just an EC", and having such notion is a blatant disrespect (and a cruel insult).

I just went through the application cycle and although I have a limited experience, it was nothing like this. Indubitably, this will be the main focus of most of your interviews and will give you a chance to exhibit any and all characteristics that they are looking for. I also served 5 years in the Marine Corps, have a family of 3, and it has been quite a challenge; nevertheless, everything that makes us different, sets us apart in a good way. Good luck to you and I'm sure at the end of the day you too will be successful. You're not the first nor the last. You can always PM, if needed.

I don't know if there are any adcoms who view military service as an EC, although I'm sure there are, but regardless anyone who diminishes any of the hard work you've done and place it into such a category doesn't deserve you; going to Iraq and getting shot at is not comparable to shadowing a doctor or doing research as an undergrad.

 

[Sophocles]

I am in the same boat, I will be getting out of the Navy this year and going to pre-med at Nova Southereastern. Family of four also, so I hope I do very well with my GPA and MCAT. Good luck

I'm actually from Miami and interviewed/accepted at NSU for their DO program. Let me know if I can help in any way.

 

[487806]

I don't know if there are any adcoms who view military service as an EC, although I'm sure there are, but regardless anyone who diminishes any of the hard work you've done and place it into such a category doesn't deserve you; going to Iraq and getting shot at is not comparable to shadowing a doctor or doing research as an undergrad.

Exactly. I think there's a separate category in AMCAS for "military service" and I'm 100% sure it wouldn't be considered as a typical premed EC.

 

[alpinism]

I just went through the application cycle and although I have a limited experience, it was nothing like this. Indubitably, this will be the main focus of most of your interviews and will give you a chance to exhibit any and all characteristics that they are looking for. I also served 5 years in the Marine Corps, have a family of 3, and it has been quite a challenge; nevertheless, everything that makes us different, sets us apart in a good way. Good luck to you and I'm sure at the end of the day you too will be successful. You're not the first nor the last. You can always PM, if needed.

I don't know if there are any adcoms who view military service as an EC, although I'm sure there are, but regardless anyone who diminishes any of the hard work you've done and place it into such a category doesn't deserve you; going to Iraq and getting shot at is not comparable to shadowing a doctor or doing research as an undergrad.

Just for clarification, I meant that some schools love it and some schools just assign it the same value as other high level ECs (like being a university athlete). Not that some schools don't care or think of it as a bad thing. It will obviously help at any med school, but the degree to which it helps varies greatly. The schools that love it might give you 4 or 5 LizzyM points. But, not every school will.

Columbia happens to be one of those schools that loves it. They tend to focus more on ECs and perfer non-trads (including vets).

Whether you like it or not, military service is an EC (a great EC, but still an EC)

EC = everything besides your stats and degree(s) ie extra-curricular activities

No one is saying that serving in the .mil is the same as doing research or shadowing. But, the fact of the matter is that many med schools focus more on stats and research when deciding who to interview.

Unless you are a URM and/or went to an Ivy (like Sophacles) you're going to have a hard time getting into many schools well above your stats range, even as a vet (with the exception of a few top schools that love vets).

If you’re a non-URM vet with a 3.6/29 from a state school, you’re not going to get many interviews at schools with 3.7/33 averages.

 

[alpinism]

Exactly. I think there's a separate category in AMCAS for "military service" and I'm 100% sure it wouldn't be considered as a typical premed EC.

If I remember correctly, AMCAS has a box to check if you are a vet, nothing more.

You still have to enter your military service as one of your 15 activites, right next to shadowing and hospital volunteering. You can also talk about it in your PS as well.

 

[487806]

Just for clarification, I meant that some schools love it and some schools just assign it the same value as other high level ECs (like being a university athlete). Not that some schools don't care or think of it as a bad thing. It will obviously help at any med school, but the degree to which it helps varies greatly. The schools that love it might give you 4 or 5 LizzyM points. But, not every school will.

Columbia happens to be one of those schools that loves it. They tend to focus more on ECs and perfer non-trads (including vets).

Whether you like it or not, military service is an EC (a great EC, but still an EC)

EC = everything besides your stats and degree(s) ie extra-curricular activities

No one is saying that serving in the .mil is the same as doing research or shadowing. But, the fact of the matter is that many med schools focus more on stats and research when deciding who to interview.

Unless you are a URM and/or went to an Ivy (like Sophacles) you're going to have a hard time getting into many schools well above your stats range, even as a vet (with the exception of a few top schools that love vets).

If you're a non-URM vet with a 3.6/29 from a state school, you're not going to get many interviews at schools with 3.7/33 averages.

Yeah I definitely agree with all the general requirements involved (good grades and MCAT, volunteer, research, other EC's etc.). But honestly, military service is the riskiest, yet most noble activity, and downplaying them just doesn't seem right, regardless of whether it is marked as "most meaningful". Regardless of what school it is, I'm pretty sure that the experiences of a vet are much more significant and that adcoms should be willing to hear compared to the standard mundane activities. Of course, reality doesn't always happen that way, but it's just disheartening to see the military service being downplayed.

 

[dgsilvervid]

I am an Army veteran who applied for the 2017 med school classes I can tell you that it will help you immensely! Never realized how much it would help until I started interviewing, they really loved it. Got 12 interview invites, I decided to interview with 7 and got accepted at 6. I have a great GPA but I very mediocre MCAT. Keep working hard and you will get in!

 

[askamsky51]

If I remember correctly, AMCAS has a box to check if you are a vet, nothing more.

You still have to enter your military service as one of your 15 activites, right next to shadowing and hospital volunteering. You can also talk about it in your PS as well.

This.

 

[xffan624]

If I remember correctly, AMCAS has a box to check if you are a vet, nothing more.

You still have to enter your military service as one of your 15 activites, right next to shadowing and hospital volunteering. You can also talk about it in your PS as well.

Still doesn't imply that the majority of ADCOM's view it as a normal EC. Reading some of the normal "problems" and "crises" most of the folks on here freak out about, it's not remotely comparable to a combat environment. ADCOM's, I hope know this. What you put on your PS as a major life event, many service members would call a routine morning in a deployed environment .

There is a difference and to the OP, most schools will give you a significant leg up because of your service (check out my stats on MD apps for an idea). Get decent grades and a decent MCAT and you're shoo-in. The schools that don't, well, you probably don't want to go there anyway.

 

[member0351]

FWIW i applied this cycle (USMC combat vet of afg and irq) to 11 schools....got 6 interview offers, went to 5, two accepts, two waitlists, and one rejection (Harvard)

33 3.7

I'm very happy with how it all worked out

though, I was a little miffed that "hollistic" BU rejected me immediately pre-interview and accepted my 22 year old coworker with a lower MCAT score....

 

[PennDippody]

Being a veteran is a status, not an EC. Adcoms will view it as such- and favorably so. It was definately a tangible factor during my cycle. It's not compensatory (insofar as you still have to be a competative applicant) but it is distinctly benificial nonetheless. Surely xffan624, askamsky51, Sophocles et. al. can attest to this.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Relax people, all he was saying is that the relative weight given to military service is variable. The best thing about serving is that you hopefully were smart enough to get Texas residency.

 

[preMedDonut]

... others view it as just another EC like being a college athlete or doing a research fellowship.

I would like to know who views this way so I don't even come close to sending them an application and how you heard this information. Someone comparing my service to an NCAA athlete or research fellowship? Wow.

 

[LizzyM]

Eh it depends on the school. Some love vets, others view it as just another EC like being a college athlete or doing a research fellowship.

I wouldn't say it adds 5 pts to your score, you still need to have a competitive GPA/MCAT first and foremost.

Please, tell us about your experience on a medical school admissions committee or how you came by this knowledge.

 

[487806]

Relax people, all he was saying is that the relative weight given to military service is variable. The best thing about serving is that you hopefully were smart enough to get Texas residency.

Yeah I'm aware of that. The main question is which medical schools downplay military service.

 

[Loveless]

Please, tell us about your experience on a medical school admissions committee or how you came by this knowledge.

Oh snap!

 

[askamsky51]

Relax people, all he was saying is that the relative weight given to military service is variable. The best thing about serving is that you hopefully were smart enough to get Texas residency.

This made me lol, and also die a little inside

To get on my pedestal though, I think the weight given isn't variable to the "Veteran" status--but rather what you did with that time. I think that a person who dodged bullets for a living should be seen in a different light than someone who flew a desk for 4+ years. Maybe that's just my "Grunt" bias talking.

 

[alpinism]

Please, tell us about your experience on a medical school admissions committee or how you came by this knowledge.

😕 Did any of you even read what I wrote??

I never said it didn't help, I said some schools value it more than others. Which is why when you look at the % of vets at certain schools it varies widely. Some schools, like my own, take as many as 4 or 5 vets every class. Others get 2x as many applications and don't have any vets some classes.

Considering I'm probably the only person in this thread who is both a combat veteran (OIF, OEF, and CJTF-HOA with multiple combat decorations) and an active student adcom member, I'd say I'm more than qualified to comment ma'am.

Now please tell me about all the non-URM 3.6/31 vets at top medical schools like Yale, WashU, Vandy, UChicago, or Stanford....since apparently every medical school adcom gives them 5 bonus points automatically so that a vet 3.6/31 = a 3.7/ 35 at all medical schools.

You do realize a ton of vets end up at DO schools every year because of subpar stats, even after applying MD? And I'm not talking about people with really low stats like a 3.3/25.

All I'm saying is that if you want the best chance at getting into medical school, you need to have a competitive application with clinical exp, research, community service, shadowing, AND good stats, even as a vet. You can't just count on being a vet to carry you into med school without proving you can handle the course load and pass step 1 by getting good grades.

 

[nysegop]

Is your last name Mike?



(Oscar Mike)

 

[alpinism]

Furthermore, for all the vets applying in the near future:

Many schools perform screening cut-offs using MCAT/GPA on apps before even looking at your vet status/ECs/PS. It's usually with MCAT subsection scores (minimum of 7 or 8 in each section etc...) but it varies from school to school. Regardless of whether you're a vet or not, if you don't meet the screening threshold, you won't get an interview. And guess what, they can't give you 5 bonus points if they haven't even read your application. So that basically invalidates the 5 point rule right there.

On top of that, many adcoms have just 1 reviewer reading the application and deciding who to invite for an interview. They can assign how many bonus points or relative value to being a vet as they feel like. In the same adcom, some reviewers may love vets while others *gasp* may not care as much or may be looking for other things in applicants (welcome to the real world, life isn't always fair). There can be a huge level of variability in opinion even within a single adcom.

Saying that being a vet automatically gives you a 5 point boost everywhere is at best extremely misleading and at worst simply untrue. Just because 1 adcom member assigns 5 bonus points to the vet applications she reviews, doesn't mean everyone else does.

I'm sorry if i'm coming off as the bad guy here, that's not my intention. I'm just trying to give you guys a realistic view of the application process (for your benefit) instead of blowing smoke up your rear.

And, just as an aside, there are a bunch of vets at my school alone that came here from across the country (incl. ex special forces guys w/ solid stats/ECs) after being rejected from their state schools that have MUCH lower stats averages.

 

[jde1223]

This made me lol, and also die a little inside

To get on my pedestal though, I think the weight given isn't variable to the "Veteran" status--but rather what you did with that time. I think that a person who dodged bullets for a living should be seen in a different light than someone who flew a desk for 4+ years. Maybe that's just my "Grunt" bias talking.

+1 as a fellow grunt I also think those us who actually fought in armed conflict rather than just deploy overseas should be looked at different- but that's a grunts point of view, and when it comes to med school I am assuming that just being a vet is exceptional. I spent 9 years active duty, and I'm 35 years "young" and will be 39 or 40 when applying

 

[jde1223]

Considering I'm probably the only person in this thread who is both a combat veteran (OIF, OEF, and CJTF-HOA with multiple combat decorations) and an active student adcom member, I'd say I'm more than qualified to comment ma'am. .

Your not alone brother- Bosnia, Kosovo(11b) OEF, OIF and HOA(special ops navy)- but I'm no where near as qualified with the adcom stuff.

 

[Sophocles]

Furthermore, for all the vets applying in the near future:

Many schools perform screening cut-offs using MCAT/GPA on apps before even looking at your vet status/ECs/PS. It's usually with MCAT subsection scores (minimum of 7 or 8 in each section etc...) but it varies from school to school. Regardless of whether you're a vet or not, if you don't meet the screening threshold, you won't get an interview. And guess what, they can't give you 5 bonus points if they haven't even read your application. So that basically invalidates the 5 point rule right there.

On top of that, many adcoms have just 1 reviewer reading the application and deciding who to invite for an interview. They can assign how many bonus points or relative value to being a vet as they feel like. In the same adcom, some reviewers may love vets while others *gasp* may not care as much or may be looking for other things in applicants (welcome to the real world, life isn't always fair). There can be a huge level of variability in opinion even within a single adcom.

Saying that being a vet automatically gives you a 5 point boost everywhere is at best extremely misleading and at worst simply untrue. Just because 1 adcom member assigns 5 bonus points to the vet applications she reviews, doesn't mean everyone else does.

I'm sorry if i'm coming off as the bad guy here, that's not my intention. I'm just trying to give you guys a realistic view of the application process (for your benefit) instead of blowing smoke up your rear.

And, just as an aside, there are a bunch of vets at my school alone that came here from across the country (incl. ex special forces guys w/ solid stats/ECs) after being rejected from their state schools that have MUCH lower stats averages.

Yeah, I think you definitely caught a lot of flak but honestly I think it was more geared towards a particular mindset not actually you, per se. I think people understand where you are coming from and probably agree with you; I think the previous posts were misinterpreted though. But you shouldn't get so upset, although it is understandable; regardless, we're combat vets and there's no need to get flustered over an internet forum. I can only speak for myself, but I appreciate your input and think that people just misunderstood the statement. People ask questions, people give advice, and the only time it becomes detrimental rather than edifying is when people start to argue needlessly.

 

[preMedDonut]

Yeah, I think you definitely caught a lot of flak but honestly I think it was more geared towards a particular mindset not actually you, per se. I think people understand where you are coming from and probably agree with you; I think the previous posts were misinterpreted though. But you shouldn't get so upset, although it is understandable; regardless, we're combat vets and there's no need to get flustered over an internet forum. I can only speak for myself, but I appreciate your input and think that people just misunderstood the statement. People ask questions, people give advice, and the only time it becomes detrimental rather than edifying is when people start to argue needlessly.

Exactly, the little things in life. Where did that reasoning go? One little flashback reminds me. I think all that was said to aplinism, because we were taking offense to the "just another EC" comment. Which I think is a a disgrace personally, and no one on this topic posted anything about how you can get past initial screenings with vet status. We all know you need the stats, volunteer and clinicals to still get in and not one person has said other wise. I think we all mature enough here and been through enough that we know what goals we need to achieve and how to achieve them. Personally, I think the 2nd post was not necessary as it was just to raise more anger and provoke people. Anyways, my two cents.

 

[IlDestriero]

Many PDs, etc feel the love for vets. We bring perspective and proven leadership that is uncommon among our peers. It will absolutely help with obtaining interviews, etc. BUT you still have to be able to walk the walk. If you're not really competitive, you're SOL.
And of course there are a lot of us in leadership positions out there, taking care of our own and paying it forward.👍

 

[JJMrK]

Lots of respect for the military and veterans in medicine based on what I've seen.

Best of luck to you OP, thanks for your service.

 

[alpinism]

Lol its all good guys.

I would like to know who views this way so I don't even come close to sending them an application and how you heard this information. Someone comparing my service to an NCAA athlete or research fellowship? Wow.

Exactly, the little things in life. Where did that reasoning go? One little flashback reminds me. I think all that was said to aplinism, because we were taking offense to the "just another EC" comment. Which I think is a a disgrace personally, and no one on this topic posted anything about how you can get past initial screenings with vet status. We all know you need the stats, volunteer and clinicals to still get in and not one person has said other wise. I think we all mature enough here and been through enough that we know what goals we need to achieve and how to achieve them. Personally, I think the 2nd post was not necessary as it was just to raise more anger and provoke people. Anyways, my two cents.

Many vets (esp the ones just starting down the pre-med road) aren't aware of all the steps involved with putting together a competitive application. I can't tell you how clueless I was when I first started. If the OP already knew everything about applying, he prob wouldn't be on here asking for advice.

I was specifically responding to the 1st 2 posts in this thread that suggested the opposite of what you are saying (ie if you have a 3.6 in the pre-reqs alone and a 30 you will have "absolutely no problem getting a spot" just b/c you're a vet). Like IlDestriero said, you still have to have competitive stats and walk the walk. Considering the fact that the OP has a family (less time for volunteering/shadowing/research) and may not be able to apply broadly to schools across the country, this is especially true.

The 2nd post was meant to address your question of "who views my service as an EC?" not to provoke anyone.

It's your right to be offended and that's fine. I personally don't agree with it either, but whether you like it or not some adcom members will not only compare your service to NCAA athletes and researchers when reviewing apps, but will also select them over you. Many schools want to build a diverse class, and if they already have 1 vet or are looking for another researcher/athelete/engineer/english major, they will pick them instead of you.

Good luck OP 👍

Besides PM, there's a bunch of us (med students/residents/attendings) on the non-trad and military medicine forums if you have any specific questions.

 

[jacobus]

Hello my name is Oscar. I served in the US Army for 5 years before medically retiring. I have always been interested in the medical sciences. I am now 25 years young and starting this long adventure with a family of 4, along with all the financial stresses. I don't consider myself smart or dumb. My School GPA was 3.6, and I feel like I could have done better if I would have been motivated. I will be starting the pre-med stuff this year.
I guess I am reaching out to you the readers, and hoping someone has a similar experience. I am really nervous about this and would love to talk to someone and learn from their experience.

Do yourself a favor and google Dr. Bill Underwood he is a ex navy seal (team 6)
Read his story its inspirational.

 

[Dirtyshadow]

Hello my name is Oscar. I served in the US Army for 5 years before medically retiring. I have always been interested in the medical sciences. I am now 25 years young and starting this long adventure with a family of 4, along with all the financial stresses. I don't consider myself smart or dumb. My School GPA was 3.6, and I feel like I could have done better if I would have been motivated. I will be starting the pre-med stuff this year.
I guess I am reaching out to you the readers, and hoping someone has a similar experience. I am really nervous about this and would love to talk to someone and learn from their experience.

Was in a similar situation after leaving the Marines with a wife and kids. Started school, was able to maintain 3.7 GPA and received a lowish MCAT score. I still was accepted to multiple DO and MD programs so it worked out for me in the end. A few of the interviewers told me that they need people like me who have the maturity, leadership experience, and calmness under pressure that comes from military experience. It will be beneficial for you to have been a vet, but you must still work hard and present yourself as a viable candidate. In my experience, I believe my military experience compensated for my poor MCAT score a bit. Also, make sure you kill the personal statement. Dont focus solely on your military experience, but explain how it got you to the path you are on. Message me if you have any questions.

 

[Dirtyshadow]

I just went through the application cycle and although I have a limited experience, it was nothing like this. Indubitably, this will be the main focus of most of your interviews and will give you a chance to exhibit any and all characteristics that they are looking for. I also served 5 years in the Marine Corps, have a family of 3, and it has been quite a challenge; nevertheless, everything that makes us different, sets us apart in a good way. Good luck to you and I'm sure at the end of the day you too will be successful. You're not the first nor the last. You can always PM, if needed.

I don't know if there are any adcoms who view military service as an EC, although I'm sure there are, but regardless anyone who diminishes any of the hard work you've done and place it into such a category doesn't deserve you; going to Iraq and getting shot at is not comparable to shadowing a doctor or doing research as an undergrad.

This, ALL of my interviews focused 95% on my military experience and they were all interested in hearing what I've done. Then they ran out of time and regretted not having more time.

 

[Milligan]

I choose to serve my country by joining the military straight out of High School, and there is nothing that can compare to the experience and leadership skills that one learns in the military, compared to someone whom only has experienced a dorm room. Not even close.

Maybe one day there will be a veterans preference, but until then a from what I see a competitive GPA and MCAT will be what gets you in.

 

[PennDippody]

This made me lol, and also die a little inside

To get on my pedestal though, I think the weight given isn't variable to the "Veteran" status--but rather what you did with that time. I think that a person who dodged bullets for a living should be seen in a different light than someone who flew a desk for 4+ years. Maybe that's just my "Grunt" bias talking.

I totally see where you're coming from but would argue it doesn't make that much of a difference regarding applications.

 

[PennDippody]

this, all of my interviews focused 95% on my military experience and they were all interested in hearing what i've done. Then they ran out of time and regretted not having more time.

+1

 

[Goucher2013]

Furthermore, for all the vets applying in the near future:

Many schools perform screening cut-offs using MCAT/GPA on apps before even looking at your vet status/ECs/PS. It's usually with MCAT subsection scores (minimum of 7 or 8 in each section etc...) but it varies from school to school. Regardless of whether you're a vet or not, if you don't meet the screening threshold, you won't get an interview. And guess what, they can't give you 5 bonus points if they haven't even read your application. So that basically invalidates the 5 point rule right there.

On top of that, many adcoms have just 1 reviewer reading the application and deciding who to invite for an interview. They can assign how many bonus points or relative value to being a vet as they feel like. In the same adcom, some reviewers may love vets while others *gasp* may not care as much or may be looking for other things in applicants (welcome to the real world, life isn't always fair). There can be a huge level of variability in opinion even within a single adcom.

Saying that being a vet automatically gives you a 5 point boost everywhere is at best extremely misleading and at worst simply untrue. Just because 1 adcom member assigns 5 bonus points to the vet applications she reviews, doesn't mean everyone else does.

I'm sorry if i'm coming off as the bad guy here, that's not my intention. I'm just trying to give you guys a realistic view of the application process (for your benefit) instead of blowing smoke up your rear.

And, just as an aside, there are a bunch of vets at my school alone that came here from across the country (incl. ex special forces guys w/ solid stats/ECs) after being rejected from their state schools that have MUCH lower stats averages.

Speaking of points boosts and what some other people on this thread have mentioned, alpinism, what's your experience with adcoms distinguishing between grunts, POGs, Fobbits, etc?

I presume SOF/SF stands out easily to non-military people, but do you think anything else does, even just the basic difference between combat and CS/CSS? Would you expect a student veteran to be consulted about a veteran applicant's story?

I ask this both in terms of appreciating military service, but also safeguarding against fobbits who might get away with telling tall tales about their time outside the wire.

 

[IlDestriero]

Speaking of points boosts and what some other people on this thread have mentioned, alpinism, what's your experience with adcoms distinguishing between grunts, POGs, Fobbits, etc?

I presume SOF/SF stands out easily to non-military people, but do you think anything else does, even just the basic difference between combat and CS/CSS? Would you expect a student veteran to be consulted about a veteran applicant's story?

I ask this both in terms of appreciating military service, but also safeguarding against fobbits who might get away with telling tall tales about their time outside the wire.

You're over thinking it. You're a vet or not. The rest is just how interesting the interview is for the interviewer.

 

[preMedDonut]

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[487806]

Yeah, I think you definitely caught a lot of flak but honestly I think it was more geared towards a particular mindset not actually you, per se. I think people understand where you are coming from and probably agree with you; I think the previous posts were misinterpreted though. But you shouldn't get so upset, although it is understandable; regardless, we're combat vets and there's no need to get flustered over an internet forum. I can only speak for myself, but I appreciate your input and think that people just misunderstood the statement. People ask questions, people give advice, and the only time it becomes detrimental rather than edifying is when people start to argue needlessly.

Yeah I wasn't exactly sure what's with the backlash against alpinism. Shoot the message, not the messenger... I'm just disappointed by the harshness of some medical schools that will downplay military service as an ordinary EC. Fair or not, downplaying military service implies irrationality and immorality. Easy to criticize while enjoying safety, but impossible to live under those circumstances in the warzone. Adcoms must know this exactly and schools that reject this notion are the schools that everyone should avoid.

 

[alpinism]

Speaking of points boosts and what some other people on this thread have mentioned, alpinism, what's your experience with adcoms distinguishing between grunts, POGs, Fobbits, etc?

I presume SOF/SF stands out easily to non-military people, but do you think anything else does, even just the basic difference between combat and CS/CSS? Would you expect a student veteran to be consulted about a veteran applicant's story?

I ask this both in terms of appreciating military service, but also safeguarding against fobbits who might get away with telling tall tales about their time outside the wire.

Unless the adcom member who is reviewing the app has prior .mil experience or is from a family w/ .mil ties, they prob wouldn't really know the difference. Even if they did, I don't think most would give any extra boost to combat vets v. desk jockeys. Its too gray of an area to make clear distinctions, esp when you throw in guard/reserves, enlisted v. officers, multiple deployments v. only one, and those who served in multiple different capacities.

There are just too many variables for it to be anything other than vet or not.

Its Ironic, but even though most civilians know of some of the more famous SF units (Green Berets, SEALs, etc), many tend to get the short end of the stick since much of what they do is covert. Because of this, they put can't some of their most impressive accomplishments/experiences in their PS or activities section.

In the end, they knew this was the price to pay going into it and many see it as a point of pride. Besides, most were in it for their fellow soldiers and country, not for the accolades. Not surprisingly, these are some very talented and smart guys and most end up doing just fine without the extra boost. Just a personal observation, but they are generally very down to earth and you'd never know it just by looking at them.

 

[NontradCA]

Speaking of points boosts and what some other people on this thread have mentioned, alpinism, what's your experience with adcoms distinguishing between grunts, POGs, Fobbits, etc?

I presume SOF/SF stands out easily to non-military people, but do you think anything else does, even just the basic difference between combat and CS/CSS? Would you expect a student veteran to be consulted about a veteran applicant's story?

I ask this both in terms of appreciating military service, but also safeguarding against fobbits who might get away with telling tall tales about their time outside the wire.

Let me know when combat experience is correlated with good physician. Such an asinine thought.

 

[Goucher2013]

Let me know when combat experience is correlated with good physician. Such an asinine thought.

This wasn't a question or indirect statement about whether someone will make a better physician if they have combat experience; it was a question about how adcoms screen members of the military, which provides for a huge variety of experiences. After all, you wouldn't equate someone who worked in a billing department with an ICU nurse because, "well, they both worked in a hospital". Sometime in the next year, I'm going to find the time to get IRB approval for a survey of veteran recruiting to med schools. I'm quite fascinated to find out whether there are any distinct trends in affluence, gender, ethnicity or branch among veterans who end up med school. As a veteran, you're surely aware of factors like the skewing of racial demographics in the combat arms towards white southerners, which in turn could affect med school recruiting if schools prefer combat arms people - so distinguishing between grunts and POGs isn't just flamebaiting.

 

[NontradCA]

This wasn't a question or indirect statement about whether someone will make a better physician if they have combat experience; it was a question about how adcoms screen members of the military, which provides for a huge variety of experiences. After all, you wouldn't equate someone who worked in a billing department with an ICU nurse because, "well, they both worked in a hospital". Sometime in the next year, I'm going to find the time to get IRB approval for a survey of veteran recruiting to med schools. I'm quite fascinated to find out whether there are any distinct trends in affluence, gender, ethnicity or branch among veterans who end up med school. As a veteran, you're surely aware of factors like the skewing of racial demographics in the combat arms towards white southerners, which in turn could affect med school recruiting if schools prefer combat arms people - so distinguishing between grunts and POGs isn't just flamebaiting.

Despite your claim to not be flame baiting I find your ICU nurse v. Billing to be ridiculous. As a medic, I can assure you that clinical experience (and medicine) is better in a hospital in the US than it is being deployed (minus the obvious non-blunt trauma). But hey good luck with the survey. Id be willing to bet that most veteran students are POGs.