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This thread can only end well.
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The origin of the question, a struggling student, does not matter. Academic success can close doors for sure, but you're thinking about things the wrong way. Do the best you can, try and find a field you enjoy and take your best shot at matching that field (within reason)
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All doctors need to be smart to provide good care to their patients regardless of what field of medicine they are practicing.
If you are struggling, you will not be competitive enough to get into the more competitive fields, but that does not mean the less-competitive fields are any less intellectual.
Do the best you can and find what fields interest you.
If you are struggling, you will not be competitive enough to get into the more competitive fields, but that does not mean the less-competitive fields are any less intellectual.
Do the best you can and find what fields interest you.
D
deleted1139416
They all require you to be smart and capable. But the impact you can make in any field of medicine depends on your ability to be passionate and really care about patients enough to keep yourself updated on medical knowledge and critically think about your patients
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An internist or family medicine Doc is not any less intelligent than a Neurosurgeon or Orthopedic surgeon. We all attend medical school, and we all take the same board exams. An IM doc could have very well scored higher than a neurosurgeon on their Step exams, but that's not what matters. No one can afford to be mediocre in medicine no matter the field. You have to change your way of thinking about this.
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If you're struggling, none of them.
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Agree. Find what you are passionate about. Something that you enjoy, so you will spend the needed time to understand and excel.
What do YOU find interesting? That may be a better place to start the thought process.
Thanks.
Wook
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1. My specialty
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3. That one service that's always mean to me
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2. My dog
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It’s not intelligence that matters—skills and talents that are required vary depending on the field. If you are bright enough to be admitted to medical school, you have enough intelligence to succeed. Obviously, any surgical field requires the ability to visualize things in 3D. Radiology requires the ability to translate what you see in an image to what is going on inside the body. Pathology requires an extremely retentive memory because you need to recognize diagnoses across ALL specialties. Pediatrics (and sometimes geriatrics) requires you to extrapolate diagnoses with very little verbal history from the patient. Etc, etc, etc. What are your strengths, and what do you like?
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Administration.
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i vote radonc and EM going forward just because anybody going into them now has to be okay with the possibility of being unemployed after 7-10 years of training
*doesn’t apply to current radonc and EM docs
*doesn’t apply to current radonc and EM docs
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When you are on rotations, what articles do you find interesting in what areas? Pulmonary, cardiac, inf disease, surgery, derm? This will help you.
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You're 100 miles away from the right question and I'm not about to type an essay required to explain why. First of all, you haven't defined intelligence. In medicine, there's a dozens of cognitive processes including situational awareness, pattern recognition, but also spatial reasoning in some. Second, there's no minimal amount of "intelligence" required. Like any other job, people don't end up where they're at due to intelligence and people practice above and below their scope all the time. Third, there's no way to measure this so it's useless to pontificate. Step scores are probably the only common objective metric across these fields readily available to study, but they're prone to self-selection (i.e. I scored 250+, therefore I want Ortho).
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I didn’t choose my specialty based on my intelligence.
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Different specialties have different talent requirements. You need a certain level of intelligence to become a doctor/certain level of book smarts. Beyond that it's based on more specific talents as well as what you're passionate about.
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This belongs in the premed forums for people without a grasp of reality. Some of the "smartest" students pick less competitive specialties for reasons like lifestyle and passion for the field. I would pick a specialty that you love rather than getting caught up in the minutiae.
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I feel like some specialties could be more 'cognitive' than others (such as neuro), but I'm not sure I would apply a differential of intelligence to specialties. Every specialty has a thought process/cognitive process that is required.
If you are struggling academically, the question you should be asking yourself is "Out of the specialties I could realistically get into based on my academic history/grades/scores/extracurriculars/research, which do I see myself doing most?"
If you are struggling academically, the question you should be asking yourself is "Out of the specialties I could realistically get into based on my academic history/grades/scores/extracurriculars/research, which do I see myself doing most?"
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The way this question was worded is insulting and will hopefully gather the ire of many. You do know there are also different kinds of intelligence - academic intelligence, emotional intelligence - we as clinicians need a high level of both. ALL specialties require a significant amount of intelligence. I know colleagues in FM who could have easily been Neurosurgeons but their interests weren't there and their heart wasn't in it. I know CT surgeons who have high academic intelligence and poor emotional intelligence. Delete this question immediately and consider rewording.
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I honestly think this is a troll
MoreSleepPlz
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...Wow.
I'm performing quite well in my courses so far. Definitely would not qualify as "struggling" by any means; my performance thus far netted me an academic scholarship for next term.
I'm hoping to match peds (at this time, I know it may change).
Why? Because I'm passionate about peds, for personal reasons and from clinical experiences I've had. Not because I'm "struggling" and "unintelligent".
A classmate of mine who is arguably one of the most intelligent students in our class (much smarter than me!) wants to do family med. Again, because he's passionate about it.
Not everyone wants to be a neurosurgeon. Not because I'm stupid...because I would be miserable.
I'm performing quite well in my courses so far. Definitely would not qualify as "struggling" by any means; my performance thus far netted me an academic scholarship for next term.
I'm hoping to match peds (at this time, I know it may change).
Why? Because I'm passionate about peds, for personal reasons and from clinical experiences I've had. Not because I'm "struggling" and "unintelligent".
A classmate of mine who is arguably one of the most intelligent students in our class (much smarter than me!) wants to do family med. Again, because he's passionate about it.
Not everyone wants to be a neurosurgeon. Not because I'm stupid...because I would be miserable.
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Well I’d think he’d want to be a researcher perhaps … I’d say pathology with research track ? Just based on interests of course
If you were admitted into medical school, then you are a smart MF'er. If you completed medical school, then you are a smart MF'er with great management and test taking skills. Now, competitiveness does not correlate with how difficult a specialty is. Medicine = Difficult. Different specialties have varying quality of life perks but all specialties (aka medicine) are difficult and require smart MF'ers to do it. The good quality of life specialties (many of which may appear to be easy, eg derm) will likely have the high scoring folk. This does not make the high scoring folk any smarter than the low scoring folk. When the rubber meets the pavement, there is not much of a difference between most doctors. Many years ago, nobody (US grads) wanted urology hence they matched a great number of IMGs (who by the way are super smart). Today, many wanna do urology hence, they match mostly high test scoring folk. The state of urology has not changed significantly because of this switch. Like many have already said above, figure out what you like and put up the best reasonable fight to get it.
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Lol med students should be illegal
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This is a silly question. There are many different ways to measure intelligence so there is no accurate way to rank this. But even if there was, this is going off the (incorrect) assumption that everyone pursued their specialty based off their intelligence rather than their passion.
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Genuinely curious how you came up with this list, or if you copied it from somewhere… 😅. I also don’t know why but I thought it was funny to see this in alphabetical order too. I could believe this is a serious post from an overwhelmed student, as much as a troll post… Regardless!
Physicians have to be smart — period.
They’re also human beings with different skills and varying levels of aptitude — period.
Physicians don’t always get their 1st choice specialty — period.
As for the flack you’re getting, can you blame anyone here who’s awkwardly saying “wait what” too? Maybe come back to the thread you started & clarify… but don’t be surprised to get answers such as the ones above mine.
Man, imagine if we did this Ancient Rome forum style and you wrote this on a wall to be discussed publicly. So much yelling… actually, it would be like British parliament now. 😂 I digress, just do your best and do something you could enjoy doing extensively.
Your personal opinion of your capacity to succeed will also fluctuate in-conjunction with your motivations, so check the latter before you knock yourself out of whatever specialty you think your intelligence alone can get you. Everyone has a limit, but you should choose to focus on your strengths & joys to get you through the day, the month, and maybe the rest of medical school.
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If one uses the Intellegence Quatient test to define intellegence, the vast majority (not all) of people in the uber competitive specialties will tend to score higher than the rest. There will be some in PC, or other less competive specialties, that will score on par with the uber specialty people, but those people will not be the norm. The average doctor has an IQ betwenn 120-130, which is pretty gifted. One will not be able to get any more granullar than that (e.g. #1 NSG, #2 thorasic, et...). Just my two cents.
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There is no specialty that requires more intelligence than others. If you got into and successfully completed med school, you already are reasonably intelligent. If certain specialties required more intelligence, an IQ test would be part of the screening process. You could argue that different specialties require different skills. Fields like internal medicine and it’s sub specialties are more cerebral and require more skills in analytical thinking. Surgery is more about spatial perception and motor skills. Psychiatry might require more emotional intelligence. But everyone who successfully completes med school has a reasonable amount of intelligence, which you need to care for patients.
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I suspect you're correct in this, but (and I'm not suggesting you said this) I believe its more a reflection of specialty competitiveness than in the difficulty in practicing any specific specialty.
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yes, absolutely good point. Not to get side track, but a difficulty scenario that comes to mind is you give an 11 yr old a rubics cube and ask him to solve it in two days with little instructions. The kids that can do this with little instructions are good candidates for the NSA b/c medicine requires one to be rounded. Supper intellegent people tend to be not so rounded. Einstein did not know when to get out of the rain. LOL. We need them for code braking, high energy lazzer researchers, get us to Mars, etc... These are the people that broke the Nazi Innigma Code mahcine and it was the U Boat Innigma machine to boot, which had 4 wheels as apposed to the 3 wheels innigma machine that the German Wehrmacht used. Sorry to digress.
The person who chose ortho because of their Step score is going to be quitting pretty quick.
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What a ridiculous question
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I looked on ncbi and puvmed out of curiosity. Couldn’t find anything really
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Anesthesiology.
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The smartest speciality is the one that nets you a rich dead uncle but not a Nigerian prince…
2024 or 5 ?
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Psychiatry is the easiest and the hardest. You only have to know a limited amount of scientific information. But you have to be able to speak to anyone, and not take their problems home.
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Do psychiatrists even do this though? Most of the ones I’ve had make 15 minute appointments every 7 weeks for “medication management” but keep everything exactly the same and barely ask any questions beyond “notice any side effects. How is ___ going”
jstwannagraduaaate!!!
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The more competitive the field, the less intelligence it takes to be a doc in that field (in general)
It seems like it's probably one of the easier specialties in terms of skating by under the radar, but hard to master/do well.
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Med management: easy. Doing psychotherapy effectively: not easy.
Generally true, but I would also say that pharmacotherapy can also be difficult if you’re dealing with sick patients. My job involves treating forensic patients at a state hospital. The med management is easy up to a point, after which it becomes more difficult. For instance, trying to figure out what to do for a guy who is on clozapine plus a LAI who is on his second or third readmission because he achieves competency but seemingly inexplicably loses competency again after he is sent back to jail.
Med management in psych is easy if you’re just treating the worried well or people with simple anxiety/depression or people early in their course of illness. If you’re treating severely psychotic people within a correctional setting who often have no insight into their mental illness and poor adherence, it is less easy.
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True for sure! I was thinking of the typical private practice situation.
I will also add that psych is probably the most multidimensional field where you have to think about and manage more types of things.
Again, I work at a state hospital. Obviously I’m managing severe psychotic and affective illness with medication, but I also have to manage behavior, much of which is due to personality traits or personality disorders. We have a level/privilege system that we have to keep on top of, and I have to make sure people lose their levels/privileges appropriately and also get promoted to a higher privilege level if they are doing well (otherwise the unit can destabilize if people feel they’re being treated inconsistently or unfairly). You have to manage the safety of an inpatient unit, which can be complex (like what do you do with a patient who is court-ordered to be there but keeps making weapons or when somebody is using their body fluids to weaponize their HIV?). These situations often wind up intersecting with hospital policy as well as laws regarding patient rights and the institutional need to maintain a safe, therapeutic environment.
In addition to treating symptoms, I have to keep track of my patients’ legal statuses, legal charges, court dates, etc. and monitor their progress towards competency. There are social work and dispo issues, as well as the complexities of making sure that the plan of care is going to actually be feasible in jail. We have medicine doctors here, but you have to keep on top of that, too, because otherwise things can get overlooked. Then there is also the fact that sometimes you have to be flexible on what you think the ideal care is in order to build rapport with paranoid patients so that they will at least work with you to some extent. You may also need to take patients/defendants to court and provide coherent, compelling testimony.
I’m not sure if this means more intelligence is required, but it takes a particular type of person to be comfortable operating in all of these different domains.
Again, I work at a state hospital. Obviously I’m managing severe psychotic and affective illness with medication, but I also have to manage behavior, much of which is due to personality traits or personality disorders. We have a level/privilege system that we have to keep on top of, and I have to make sure people lose their levels/privileges appropriately and also get promoted to a higher privilege level if they are doing well (otherwise the unit can destabilize if people feel they’re being treated inconsistently or unfairly). You have to manage the safety of an inpatient unit, which can be complex (like what do you do with a patient who is court-ordered to be there but keeps making weapons or when somebody is using their body fluids to weaponize their HIV?). These situations often wind up intersecting with hospital policy as well as laws regarding patient rights and the institutional need to maintain a safe, therapeutic environment.
In addition to treating symptoms, I have to keep track of my patients’ legal statuses, legal charges, court dates, etc. and monitor their progress towards competency. There are social work and dispo issues, as well as the complexities of making sure that the plan of care is going to actually be feasible in jail. We have medicine doctors here, but you have to keep on top of that, too, because otherwise things can get overlooked. Then there is also the fact that sometimes you have to be flexible on what you think the ideal care is in order to build rapport with paranoid patients so that they will at least work with you to some extent. You may also need to take patients/defendants to court and provide coherent, compelling testimony.
I’m not sure if this means more intelligence is required, but it takes a particular type of person to be comfortable operating in all of these different domains.
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Again, different skills for different specialties. Being a nephrologist, I couldn’t imagine dealing with all you have described above. Just the same way you probably wouldn’t be able to imagine weighing the benefits vs risks of doing a renal biopsy or deciding whether to put a CKD stage 5 patient on dialysis or manage conservatively. Nor could I imagine performing a successful ex-lap on a patient with an ischaemic, necrotic colon any more than a surgeon could imagine coming up with the appropriate immunosuppressant regimen for a patient with lupus nephritis. No specialty requires more general intelligence, as I have mentioned. But each specialty has it’s own unique skill set and I think we all should learn to appreciate that.
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Greylo's Anatomy
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So you're saying you don't choose the thug life it chooses you?! By the way like the avatar and name, for obvious reasons, lol.
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