Medicare for all? Please explain...

[octopusprime]

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Just trying to understand how the Bernie, Warren, et al Democratic platform has adopted this as a viable option [aside from it being a means to move further left] and why you support it...

Don't give me some platitudes about healthcare being unaffordable [we all know it's trending in that direction], it "works" in Europe, I'll gladly relinquish 1/3 of my income to achieve this utopian end, etc, etc...

Explain how/why physicians should take a 30% paycut (without any change in the current ludicrously expensive education model), how hospitals can operate exclusively at the current CMS reimbursement level (because they can't), and how rural hospitals won't close down without massive federal subsidies that would just be tacked on the tax payers bill... And if you say "don't worry it'll never happen", why do you support someone who thinks it should.

I'm not a Trump fan...I didn't vote for the guy in 2016 and HAD no intention of voting for him this year...but if the alternative is a real, genuine push to create a de novo "medicare for all" system, I'm not going to put the noose around my own neck, especially after already accumulating and paying off $250,000 in med school debt.

 

[deleted314957]

Just trying to understand how the Bernie, Warren, et al Democratic platform has adopted this as a viable option [aside from it being a means to move further left] and why you support it...

Don't give me some platitudes about healthcare being unaffordable [we all know it's trending in that direction], it "works" in Europe, I'll gladly relinquish 1/3 of my income to achieve this utopian end, etc, etc...

Explain how/why physicians should take a 30% paycut (without any change in the current ludicrously expensive education model), how hospitals can operate exclusively at the current CMS reimbursement level (because they can't), and how rural hospitals won't close down without massive federal subsidies that would just be tacked on the tax payers bill... And if you say "don't worry it'll never happen", why do you support someone who thinks it should.

I'm not a Trump fan...I didn't vote for the guy in 2016 and HAD no intention of voting for him this year...but if the alternative is a real, genuine push to create a de novo "medicare for all" system, I'm not going to put the noose around my own neck, especially after already accumulating and paying off $250,000 in med school debt.

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[deleted314957]

Just trying to understand how the Bernie, Warren, et al Democratic platform has adopted this as a viable option [aside from it being a means to move further left] and why you support it...

Don't give me some platitudes about healthcare being unaffordable [we all know it's trending in that direction], it "works" in Europe, I'll gladly relinquish 1/3 of my income to achieve this utopian end, etc, etc...

Explain how/why physicians should take a 30% paycut (without any change in the current ludicrously expensive education model), how hospitals can operate exclusively at the current CMS reimbursement level (because they can't), and how rural hospitals won't close down without massive federal subsidies that would just be tacked on the tax payers bill... And if you say "don't worry it'll never happen", why do you support someone who thinks it should.

I'm not a Trump fan...I didn't vote for the guy in 2016 and HAD no intention of voting for him this year...but if the alternative is a real, genuine push to create a de novo "medicare for all" system, I'm not going to put the noose around my own neck, especially after already accumulating and paying off $250,000 in med school debt.

We are going to socialized medicine (canada, britain, china, etc) and there is nothing that is going to stop it. True quality, TIMELY, care will be restricted to those with money.
That was easy.


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[Thr0mbus]

BIG GOVERNMENT AND BIG ACADEMIA want us all making pennies on the dollar, FORCED to do as they tell us, while they sit in their ivory towers DICTATING their will.

Meanwhile, patients without connections will be SITTING ON WAITING LISTS waiting for mediocre healthcare with TERRIBLE SERVICE as there will be no incentive for any provider to work hard.

 

[octopusprime]

We are going to socialized medicine (canada, britain, china, etc) and there is nothing that is going to stop it. True quality, TIMELY, care will be restricted to those with money.
That was easy.


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I'm sure there are many that share the sentiment, Mike, but I'm trying to put my pulse on this particular subset of physicians and understand "why" it should be supported in its current form.

 

[octopusprime]

BIG GOVERNMENT AND BIG ACADEMIA want us all making pennies on the dollar, FORCED to do as they tell us, while they sit in their ivory towers DICTATING their will.

Meanwhile, patients without connections will be SITTING ON WAITING LISTS waiting for mediocre healthcare with TERRIBLE SERVICE as there will be no incentive for any provider to work hard.

ok Thombus take the CAPS lock off and tell me why i should vote for Bernie, et al,, don't regurgitate the opposing platform.

 

[Thr0mbus]

There are those who want to rule over their fellow man. There are those who want someone else to pay for something they get.

If you fall into one of these two groups, you will feel THE BERN.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

You are just going to get empty platitudes. Most discussions about medicare for all are not very deep. Waiting for someone to say the US is "only country without universal healthcare" blah blah blah. We can pay for it (and not cut access or ration) by making cuts to the military industrial complex and taxing all those billionaires we have here. 🙄. Democrats make me like billionaires even more.

 

[ScubaV]

I think the medical system as it currently exists is unsustainable in the long run. A big part of the problem in my view is a complete lack of transparency. There is absolutely no transparency in pricing which mean traditional free market forces have no effect. If you called up a hospital and told them you had their in-network insurance, no one could tell you how much a given procedure or intervention would cost. Probably not even ballpark it.

If you listen or read an interview with healthcare experts even they can't explain why an MRI costs $X or a colonoscopy costs $Y. There's a lot of talk in generalities about the influence of insurance companies, and device manufacturers, and doctor salaries, but I've never seen a good explanation with any sort of detail. A car manufacturer could say "our supplies cost this, our labor costs this, our shipping costs this, and overhead costs this" Add in some profit and there you go. Healthcare is a giant black box.

So that's one aspect.

Another thing you hear a lot is "healthcare is/should be a right". That's debatable, but considering how wealthy we are as a society it should not be a heavy burden to guarantee some basic level of care for everyone. Something like insulin should be available to everyone, maybe not free, but affordable.

Is Medicare for all the answer? I don't know. But I do know the status quo is NOT the answer. Sadly, no one seems to be offering up alternatives for debate.

 

[octopusprime]

You are just going to get empty platitudes. Most discussions about medicare for all are not very deep. Waiting for someone to say the US is "only country without universal healthcare" blah blah blah. We can pay for it (and not cut access or ration) by making cuts to the military industrial complex and taxing all those billionaires we have here. 🙄. Democrats make me like billionaires even more.

yah, i'm just trying to understand...not like this forum is a bastion of conservativism--and I'm hoping some rational explanation / discussion can be had by those who err on the levorotatory.

 

[octopusprime]

I think the medical system as it currently exists is unsustainable in the long run. A big part of the problem in my view is a complete lack of transparency. There is absolutely no transparency in pricing which mean traditional free market forces have no effect. If you called up a hospital and told them you had their in-network insurance, no one could tell you how much a given procedure or intervention would cost. Probably not even ballpark it.

If you listen or read an interview with healthcare experts even they can't explain why an MRI costs $X or a colonoscopy costs $Y. There's a lot of talk in generalities about the influence of insurance companies, and device manufacturers, and doctor salaries, but I've never seen a good explanation with any sort of detail. A car manufacturer could say "our supplies cost this, our labor costs this, our shipping costs this, and overhead costs this" Add in some profit and there you go. Healthcare is a giant black box.

So that's one aspect.

Another thing you hear a lot is "healthcare is/should be a right". That's debatable, but considering how wealthy we are as a society it should not be a heavy burden to guarantee some basic level of care for everyone. Something like insulin should be available to everyone, maybe not free, but affordable.

Is Medicare for all the answer? I don't know. But I do know the status quo is NOT the answer. Sadly, no one seems to be offering up alternatives for debate.

Reasonable response. I think there is much agreement with the problems you stated, and ultimately the "Sadly, no one seems to be offering up alternatives for debate" seems to be a winner.

There is absolutely no transparency in pricing--completely agree, and no consistency and it's impossible to navigate on your own. So is that enough for you to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and just hope the Democratic platform will pan out because "at least it's something different"?

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

The healthcare system is waste. Unnecessary procedures, prescriptions etc. In our small world, many of the specimens we receive could go directly in the trash can and save billions.

Best thing to do is encourage people to live right and put us all out of bidness. Without smoking, sex and sun worship most of us would have nothing to do.

Everyone could become Amish. At least they have transparent pricing for healthcare services, unlike the rest of us.

 

[octopusprime]

A car manufacturer could say "our supplies cost this, our labor costs this, our shipping costs this, and overhead costs this" Add in some profit and there you go. Healthcare is a giant black box.

No transparency, yes, but I think the car manufacturer is an inaccurate analogy, as would be most tangible goods manufacturers, as you can't separate the manufacturer from the item they are selling. Cars are not a "service", but nor are cars necessarily sold at the same price to everyone--there's MSRP and there's what you actually pay for the car. So many differences, but I still agree with the point that there's no transparency.

 

[bronx43]

ok Thombus take the CAPS lock off and tell me why i should vote for Bernie, et al,, don't regurgitate the opposing platform.

Lol Bernie doesn’t care about your vote, bruh. He already has the votes of millions of non-physicians who want the government to flip this system upside down. Whether that happens is a different issue altogether.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

Republicans need to come up with something better than tort reform and health savings accounts. It's not like they are offering any real solutions.

On a related note, my elderly father Mortimer Pinkerton, just got a bill from a pathology group for blood work. I guess some of us out there are still trying to make money on CP. And we wonder why people want to blow the system up?

 

[Thr0mbus]

Republicans need to come up with something better than tort reform and health savings accounts. It's not like they are offering any real solutions.

On a related note, my elderly father Mortimer Pinkerton, just got a bill from a pathology group for blood work. I guess some of us out there are still trying to make money on CP. And we wonder why people want to blow the system up?

Did the pathology group direct the lab? Should they be required to work for free?

 

[ScubaV]

So is that enough for you to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and just hope the Democratic platform will pan out because "at least it's something different"?

Ehh, I'm not even sure if I support Medicare for all, but I think having it in the public discourse like this is a good thing. Despite considering myself an independent, one of the many things I dislike about modern conservatism is a complete lack of ideas or critical thought. It's an ideology of "No" instead of "I disagree with A because of B, how about C instead because DEF?"

No transparency, yes, but I think the car manufacturer is an inaccurate analogy, as would be most tangible goods manufacturers, as you can't separate the manufacturer from the item they are selling. Cars are not a "service", but nor are cars necessarily sold at the same price to everyone--there's MSRP and there's what you actually pay for the car. So many differences, but I still agree with the point that there's no transparency.

The car companies know what it costs on average to build a particular model, then set the MSRP based on that + some profit. Consumers know what the MSRP is and can negotiate by playing dealers off each other. I don't think healthcare entities can say the same. They probably know various aggregates of data, but I'm not sure they can quote a cost for say, an appendectomy, or an average cost of all appendectomies for the whole year. Even if they have some idea, the patient has none and the hospital can't or won't tell them so there's no shopping around.

 

[octopusprime]

Lol Bernie doesn’t care about your vote, bruh. He already has the votes of millions of non-physicians who want the government to flip this system upside down. Whether that happens is a different issue altogether.

QED.
still await rational explanation for supporting Bernie, Warren, etc as a physician....

 

[bronx43]

QED.
still await rational explanation for supporting Bernie, Warren, etc as a physician....

there isn't... where did you get this idea that there are hoards of physicians voting for Bernie? Or that the left even cares about your vote?

 

[gbwillner]

I'd first like an understanding on what problem you have with Medicare before going into the pros/cons of "Medicare for all".

Most physicians know absolutely nothing about reimbursement, yet seem to be very opinionated about the subject.

 

[DoctwoB]

The fact is the current system is broken. Opaque pricing, surprise billing, etc all lead to regular folks getting hosed. 50% of cancer patients are either bankrupt or depleted life savings within 5 years of dx. I’m not a supporter of M4A but the fact is it will be forced upon us unless we develop a better solution.

 

[Mad Jack]

I know enough people that have had serious and nearly fatal health complications due to being unable to afford care (even with insurance in many instances due to absurd deductibles upwards of $7500/year- my current deductible on a $42k/year post-tax salary as a resident). Our system is fundamentally broken and at this rate it's only a matter of time before myself or someone I know dies from an inability to obtain care.

 

[deleted480308]

The fact is the current system is broken. Opaque pricing, surprise billing, etc all lead to regular folks getting hosed. 50% of cancer patients are either bankrupt or depleted life savings within 5 years of dx. I’m not a supporter of M4A but the fact is it will be forced upon us unless we develop a better solution.

That’s still better than them being dead. Expensive meds cost money and developing them costs money. That’s why people should be catastrophic insurance

 

[deleted480308]

Republicans need to come up with something better than tort reform and health savings accounts. It's not like they are offering any real solutions.

On a related note, my elderly father Mortimer Pinkerton, just got a bill from a pathology group for blood work. I guess some of us out there are still trying to make money on CP. And we wonder why people want to blow the system up?

If the only solution accepted would include “I get everything paid for regardless of what I chip in forever”, that doesn’t exist without pillaging a neighbor and then stuff still gets rationed later. The problem is no one wants the consequences of personal responsibility because those are hard

 

[DoctwoB]

QED.
still await rational explanation for supporting Bernie, Warren, etc as a physician....

I will vote for the democratic nominee because I am pro environment, immigration, social safety net, and choice and against corruption, racially motivated policy and political tactics, and trickle down economics aka tax breaks for corporations and the Very wealthy. I am against M4A as it is against my self Interest but do believe we need health care reform and know there is no chance of M4a passing even if a Dem wins. There is no possibility of getting it through the senate. Even Obamacare barely passed after getting watered down with a Dem supermajority (which isn’t coming back anytime soon).

 

[Thr0mbus]

YOUR "RIGHTS" ARE TIMELESS.

My Grandfather didn't have a right to Herceptin, Gleevac, Rituxin, etc. etc. So neither do I.
I have no right to force someone ELSE to give me service to anything.
My Grandfather did have natural rights that all humans should have I believe.

All this BLOATED BUREAUCRACY, RED TAPE, AND ADMINISTRATION PROLIFERATION is what is making health care so UNAFFORDABLE! BLOATED BUREAUCRACY SHOULD BE SUBJECT TO ADDING VALUE AND BE EVIDENCE BASED AND QUALITY EXPERIENCES FOR THE PATIENTS JUST LIKE MY SERVICE IS!!!

IF YOUR DAMN LAW AND REGULATION DOESN'T ADD QUALITY AND VALUE THEN GET RID OF IT!!! IF YOUR DAMN CAP REGULATION TO CALIBRATE THE DAMN CYTOSPINNER DOESN'T ADD VALUE TO THE PATIENT THEN GET RID OF THE DAMN REGULATION. IF YOUR DAMN MEDICAL BOARD HARASSMENT ADDS NEGATIVE VALUE TO THE PATIENT GET RID OF IT!!!!

 

[bauber]

I believe in the idea behind M4A, but I don't think they should be cutting physician reimbursement as part of the implementation nor do they have to. Med school should be free, outstanding med school debt should be cancelled, and administrative waste/bloat should be cut aggressively. The army of MBAs and bean counters running hospitals is pushing healthcare further and further away from patient centered care and putting profit at the center. The commoditization/customer serivce-ifcation of healthcare is a problem. Physician reimbursement makes up around 10% of healthcare expenditures but our image in the general public has never been worse. I don't know if M4A as it is currently proposed is the right solution but the republican party has zero solutions.

 

[deleted480308]

I believe in the idea behind M4A, but I don't think they should be cutting physician reimbursement as part of the implementation nor do they have to. Med school should be free, outstanding med school debt should be cancelled, and administrative waste/bloat should be cut aggressively. The army of MBAs and bean counters running hospitals is pushing healthcare further and further away from patient centered care and putting profit at the center. The commoditization/customer serivce-ifcation of healthcare is a problem. Physician reimbursement makes up around 10% of healthcare expenditures but our image in the general public has never been worse. I don't know if M4A as it is currently proposed is the right solution but the republican party has zero solutions.

The appropriate solution is the patient is the end all responsibility for their healthcare use and if they cannot pay, the don’t get it.

That would quickly solve price transparency and people would stop consenting to things without knowing price, it would also lower costs as less people would be able to afford the currently inflated pricing.

 

[SetecAstronomy]

From an economic perspective, Medicare for all (or whatever) would be an investment in the workforce. Theoretically, improving the overall health of the nation will increase productivity by reducing the number of people out sick or on disability, freeing them up for work, school, military, etc. Yes, more workers will initially decrease wages, but it will also make domestic businesses more competitive. More people can do more work. It's unclear if the ROI on this investment would be in the black, because it's soooo politicized, very complicated, and there's a billion dollar insurance industry that will fight it tooth and nail. Eventually and theoretcially, the reduced dollars lost to insurance middlemen and boost in the economy (from increased worker productivity) could allow for an increase in medicare (ie provider) reimbursement. Sure, the surgeons and cardiologists might never see a return to their all time historic high income rates, but for the rest of us, we could see increases.

 

[ScubaV]

The appropriate solution is the patient is the end all responsibility for their healthcare use and if they cannot pay, the don’t get it.

That would quickly solve price transparency and people would stop consenting to things without knowing price, it would also lower costs as less people would be able to afford the currently inflated pricing.

Not sure how that solves price transparency at all. How does a patient know if they can afford something if they don't know what it costs? How do they know if they can afford it if the hospital/doctor's office doesn't even know what it costs? Patients consent to things without knowing the price because they have no choice. That's how the system works and why it's broken.

 

[deleted480308]

Not sure how that solves price transparency at all. How does a patient know if they can afford something if they don't know what it costs? How do they know if they can afford it if the hospital/doctor's office doesn't even know what it costs? Patients consent to things without knowing the price because they have no choice. That's how the system works and why it's broken.

Patients consent without asking now because they don’t care. They don’t care because they expect to get for their copay or they expect to bail on the bill.

If the patient actually had to pay, and the hospital/doc would stop giving treatment without payment...they would absolutely start asking, which would make the information become more readily available (and eventually lower in most cases)

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Patients consent without asking now because they don’t care. They don’t care because they expect to get for their copay or they expect to bail on the bill.

If the patient actually had to pay, and the hospital/doc would stop giving treatment without payment...they would absolutely start asking, which would make the information become more readily available (and eventually lower in most cases)

Beyond that, it would force us doctors to know prices.

Go talk to anyone doing DPC - they know what EVERYTHING costs: labs, meds, imaging, specialist office visits. I know I did.

 

[ScubaV]

Patients consent without asking now because they don’t care. They don’t care because they expect to get for their copay or they expect to bail on the bill.

If the patient actually had to pay, and the hospital/doc would stop giving treatment without payment...they would absolutely start asking, which would make the information become more readily available (and eventually lower in most cases)

You think people don't ask because they don't care? Despite all the national interest in healthcare costs and countless continuously reported anecdotes about people stressing over medical expenses? Despite healthcare consistently being one of the top issues for voters? That's some severe misanthropy.

 

[deleted480308]

You think people don't ask because they don't care? Despite all the national interest in healthcare costs and countless continuously reported anecdotes about people stressing over medical expenses? Despite healthcare consistently being one of the top issues for voters? That's some severe misanthropy.

I absolutely think that. People don’t care about expenses they don’t think they are going to pay, it’s not complicated. The only people who ever ask me things about are cash payers not in ED and those still in their deductible period.

 

[Guest8]

YOUR "RIGHTS" ARE TIMELESS.

My Grandfather didn't have a right to Herceptin, Gleevac, Rituxin, etc. etc. So neither do I.
I have no right to force someone ELSE to give me service to anything.
My Grandfather did have natural rights that all humans should have I believe.

All this BLOATED BUREAUCRACY, RED TAPE, AND ADMINISTRATION PROLIFERATION is what is making health care so UNAFFORDABLE! BLOATED BUREAUCRACY SHOULD BE SUBJECT TO ADDING VALUE AND BE EVIDENCE BASED AND QUALITY EXPERIENCES FOR THE PATIENTS JUST LIKE MY SERVICE IS!!!

IF YOUR DAMN LAW AND REGULATION DOESN'T ADD QUALITY AND VALUE THEN GET RID OF IT!!! IF YOUR DAMN CAP REGULATION TO CALIBRATE THE DAMN CYTOSPINNER DOESN'T ADD VALUE TO THE PATIENT THEN GET RID OF THE DAMN REGULATION. IF YOUR DAMN MEDICAL BOARD HARASSMENT ADDS NEGATIVE VALUE TO THE PATIENT GET RID OF IT!!!!

Shhhhhh.... Also, I hate to break it to you, but our current healthcare system has wayyyyyyyy more bloated bureaucracy, red tape, and administration proliferation than any single payer nation deals with.

 

[ScubaV]

I absolutely think that. People don’t care about expenses they don’t think they are going to pay, it’s not complicated. The only people who ever ask me things about are cash payers not in ED and those still in their deductible period.

Or maybe it's hard for people to care about expenses when they don't know if or how much they are until they get them, since most healthcare billing is on the back end not up front. It seems you're trying to put the cart (patient decision making) before the horse (transparent pricing).

 

[bauber]

The appropriate solution is the patient is the end all responsibility for their healthcare use and if they cannot pay, the don’t get it.

That would quickly solve price transparency and people would stop consenting to things without knowing price, it would also lower costs as less people would be able to afford the currently inflated pricing.

Am I reading this wrong...? That's borderline sociopathic...Oh you can't afford the cost of a biopsy and workup? Guess you just gotta live with that lump until you save up!

AMS patient shows up in the ED...better run his credit before we treat!

How asinine.

 

[deleted314957]

QED.
still await rational explanation for supporting Bernie, Warren, etc as a physician....

There IS no rational explanation unless one is a socialist/communist


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[deleted314957]

I believe in the idea behind M4A, but I don't think they should be cutting physician reimbursement as part of the implementation nor do they have to. Med school should be free, outstanding med school debt should be cancelled, and administrative waste/bloat should be cut aggressively. The army of MBAs and bean counters running hospitals is pushing healthcare further and further away from patient centered care and putting profit at the center. The commoditization/customer serivce-ifcation of healthcare is a problem. Physician reimbursement makes up around 10% of healthcare expenditures but our image in the general public has never been worse. I don't know if M4A as it is currently proposed is the right solution but the republican party has zero solutions.

“Outstanding medical school debt should be cancelled”?
Don’t you think the folks who lent the money with the expectation and promise of a profit should have something to say about this?


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[deleted480308]

Or maybe it's hard for people to care about expenses when they don't know if or how much they are until they get them, since most healthcare billing is on the back end not up front. It seems you're trying to put the cart (patient decision making) before the horse (transparent pricing).

people don’t care about pricing they won’t pay

Am I reading this wrong...? That's borderline sociopathic...Oh you can't afford the cost of a biopsy and workup? Guess you just gotta live with that lump until you save up!

AMS patient shows up in the ED...better run his credit before we treat!

How asinine.

Healthcare isn’t a right. You should not be able to demand what you cannot pay for. and we all know the altered ED patient is a tiny fraction of healthcare costs so let’s leave the arguing the exception alone

 

[deleted314957]

From an economic perspective, Medicare for all (or whatever) would be an investment in the workforce. Theoretically, improving the overall health of the nation will increase productivity by reducing the number of people out sick or on disability, freeing them up for work, school, military, etc. Yes, more workers will initially decrease wages, but it will also make domestic businesses more competitive. More people can do more work. It's unclear if the ROI on this investment would be in the black, because it's soooo politicized, very complicated, and there's a billion dollar insurance industry that will fight it tooth and nail. Eventually and theoretcially, the reduced dollars lost to insurance middlemen and boost in the economy (from increased worker productivity) could allow for an increase in medicare (ie provider) reimbursement. Sure, the surgeons and cardiologists might never see a return to their all time historic high income rates, but for the rest of us, we could see increases.

“Sure, the surgeons and cardiologist might never see a return to their all time historic high income rates, but for the rest of us, we could see increases”
So all this nonsense and bs is just fine if your personal ox isn’t getting gored ?


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[bauber]

Hahaha, won't someone think of the poor lenders!

people don’t care about pricing they won’t pay

Healthcare isn’t a right. You should not be able to demand what you cannot pay for. and we all know the altered ED patient is a tiny fraction of healthcare costs so let’s leave the arguing the exception alone

It's not just the AMS patient though...500k or more people per year declare bankruptcy in major part due to medical bills. That's a lot of people per year who would just get sicker and/or die because they cannot afford care. I can't wrap my head around wanting to live in a society where we just let people suffer and die because they don't have money. It just puts more cost on us all in the long run. The US has the means to take care of its citizens but I guess some folks are just too selfish or greedy to want to. Really runs counter to what being a doc is about imo.

 

[deleted314957]

Patients consent without asking now because they don’t care. They don’t care because they expect to get for their copay or they expect to bail on the bill.

If the patient actually had to pay, and the hospital/doc would stop giving treatment without payment...they would absolutely start asking, which would make the information become more readily available (and eventually lower in most cases)

Just hold our diagnoses in escrow until we get paid.


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[deleted480308]

Hahaha, won't someone think of the poor lenders!



It's not just the AMS patient though...500k or more people per year declare bankruptcy in major part due to medical bills. That's a lot of people per year who would just get sicker and/or die because they cannot afford care. I can't wrap my head around wanting to live in a society where we just let people suffer and die because they don't have money. It just puts more cost on us all in the long run. The US has the means to take care of its citizens but I guess some folks are just too selfish or greedy to want to. Really runs counter to what being a doc is about imo.

Socialism isn’t at all a prerequisite to being a good doctor. That’s not accurate at all

And no, it doesn’t have to put more cost on “the rest of us”, the whole point is not getting to dump that cost on my neighbors if I want/need a service

 

[ScubaV]

people don’t care about pricing they won’t pay

I guess if you can boil complex realities down into simple aphorisms then solving healthcare is easy!

 

[percyeye]

You will get Medicare for All when the side that says that it is terrible does not come up with alternate solution. You can't just keep screaming "Socialism!" and watch healthcare spiral downward and not expect someone to make a dramatic change.

We had a baby in the late fall/early winter that needed an emergency C-section and had some pretty dramatic complications. With our premiums, copays, and deductible we paid around $22K out of pocket for the year. Well guess what, the magical day of Jan 1st hit and now everything started back over and there was still some procedures that needed to be done. All said and done one pregnancy is going to cost almost $40k out of pocket for 2 years. Luckily we can afford that but for your average person you can see how that will bankrupt you.

 

[deleted480308]

I guess if you can boil complex realities down into simple aphorisms then solving healthcare is easy!

You are welcome to disagree with the reality I see everyday

 

[deleted480308]

You will get Medicare for All when the side that says that it is terrible does not come up with alternate solution. You can't just keep screaming "Socialism!" and watch healthcare spiral downward and not expect someone to make a dramatic change.

We had a baby in the late fall/early winter that needed an emergency C-section and had some pretty dramatic complications. With our premiums, copays, and deductible we paid around $22K out of pocket for the year. Well guess what, the magical day of Jan 1st hit and now everything started back over and there was still some procedures that needed to be done. All said and done one pregnancy is going to cost almost $40k out of pocket for 2 years. Luckily we can afford that but for your average person you can see how that will bankrupt you.

First, I’m sorry about the heath problems. It sucks

I think the larger answer is what to do about a crappy situation. Yeah, owing $40k is a lot but bad luck happened to you. It’s just not appropriate to decide your neighbors owe $40k because bad luck happened to you.

 

[percyeye]

First, I’m sorry about the heath problems. It sucks

I think the larger answer is what to do about a crappy situation. Yeah, owing $40k is a lot but bad luck happened to you. It’s just not appropriate to decide your neighbors owe $40k because bad luck happened to you.

I don't consider it bad luck. I just consider it the cost of living in the US. I paid $40K out of pocket but the total amount billed and probably paid for everything with my wife and child is well over $40K. So if I didn't pay the extra who else did? Probably my neighbors already on this insurance plan. So in the end my neighbors ended up paying for it through their premiums anyways.

And again just saying I don't like M4A isn't going to stop this tidal wave from coming. What can possibly be done to even make this half not as bad? We have a lot of smart people in this country but no one can seem to come up with even a half decent alternative. Maybe a hybrid system? I don't know

 

[ScubaV]

You are welcome to disagree with the reality I see everyday

It's hard to trust your vision when your world is black and white with no grey.