Medicare for all? Please explain...

[johnnyb255]

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The servitude there is the person being taxed to pay for everyone else’s healthcare as their labor is then not of benefit to themself.

Oh I get it. Fair enough. Australia prides itself on its egalitarianism I guess. Also you don't know if it's going to be of benefit to you- your taxes indirectly pay for the MRI machines and putting nivolumab on the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. Individually your contribution over a lifetime wouldn't pay for this, but collectively it can fund it so those that need it- which may be you- will have access.

Govt should get out of the healthcare business

In Australia we trust insurers less than government.

 

[DoctorCancer]

From a personal view- Access as in "I have free public healthcare and subsidised primary care in Australia, the country isn't socialist, it isn't broken down, my surgery for my tumour is scheduled when clinically necessary, which could be TODAY if it's an emergency". The government negotiates pharmaceutical costs as the single buyer, and subsidises it to roughly $40 a prescription (or roughly $10 if you're on a concession), no matter the drug cost. A national body of health professionals assess drug applications for approval based on efficacy, a national body of health professionals recommend listing medications for subsidy based on cost effectiveness.

Doctors and patients decide what treatment is delivered. 'Approval' from an insurer is not required. There are good relations with pharma, compassionate access schemes to high cost drugs not yet listed are common. If an efficacious treatment is available overseas though not in Australia, the government will contribute to costs for the patient to travel.

In addition there is a thriving private healthcare system which services those with private health insurance, especially for elective surgery (knee replacements etc), oncology and psychiatry. Doctors are the highest paid profession. Tax rates around OECD average (similar to US, lower than Scandinavia).

Objectively and in comparison with other countries: Infant mortality rate is below OECD average, health efficiency rankings are high, access to same day/next day appointments are quick, outcomes are good.

EDIT: Grammar.

This is perfect!

 

[Guest8]

The servitude there is the person being taxed to pay for everyone else’s healthcare as their labor is then not of benefit to themself.

Govt should get out of the healthcare business

Not likely. Governments are getting IN healthcare, not out. All developed countries are providing MORE healthcare, not less. You're shoveling crap against the tide, and the tide is rising.

 

[DoctorCancer]

Oh I get it. Fair enough. Australia prides itself on its egalitarianism I guess. Also you don't know if it's going to be of benefit to you- your taxes indirectly pay for the MRI machines and putting nivolumab on the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. Individually your contribution over a lifetime wouldn't pay for this, but collectively it can fund it so those that need it- which may be you- will have access.



In Australia we trust insurers less than government.

Oh man! You guys might also not have a well regulated militia then. You are screwed now 😉

 

[deleted480308]

Oh I get it. Fair enough. Australia prides itself on its egalitarianism I guess. Also you don't know if it's going to be of benefit to you- your taxes indirectly pay for the MRI machines and putting nivolumab on the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. Individually your contribution over a lifetime wouldn't pay for this, but collectively it can fund it so those that need it- which may be you- will have access.



In Australia we trust insurers less than government.

Your trust is misplaced. The insurer can’t seize your bank account to pay for your neighbor and shoot you if you resist

 

[deleted480308]

Not likely. Governments are getting IN healthcare, not out. All developed countries are providing MORE healthcare, not less. You're shoveling crap against the tide, and the tide is rising.

I’m aware of the tide. It’s still wrong

 

[Guest8]

Go to Mayo and listen to the patient stories! (I have)

We have folks who get colonoscopies with cancer and the surgeons are calling that afternoon for a diagnosis so they can get them on the table!

Service must SUCK where you are at!

Again, nonsense. Maybe Mayo is the one institution processing and reading colon biopsies same day, but I promise you >99.9% of hospitals/labs are not. And no one is rushing new colon cancer diagnoses to the OR unless they're perforated or show acute, emergent symptoms. And in ANY developed nation people with acute, emergent symptoms get to the OR same day. So again, I call BS. Very confidently.

 

[johnnyb255]

This is perfect!

Ahh it's certainly not perfect, but it's fairly standard for comparative liberal democracies (and even not so liberal not so democracies, but that probably doesn't help to point out). I had an overseas patient not eligible for Medicare I struggled to get treatment for (new malignancy diagnosis), I felt terrible. Not sure I would cope turning patients away due to ability to pay.

Oh man! You guys might also not have a well regulated militia then. You are screwed now

You've seen Crocodile Dundee. We have a knife.

Your trust is misplaced. The insurer can’t seize your bank account to pay for your neighbor and shoot you if you resist

In Australia, neither can the Government. We have, dare I say it, rights. Ours aren't even codified, just implied.

 

[deleted480308]

Ahh it's certainly not perfect, but it's fairly standard for comparative liberal democracies (and even not so liberal not so democracies, but that probably doesn't help to point out). I had an overseas patient not eligible for Medicare I struggled to get treatment for (new malignancy diagnosis), I felt terrible. Not sure I would cope turning patients away due to ability to pay.



You've seen Crocodile Dundee. We have a knife.



In Australia, neither can the Government. We have, dare I say it, rights. Ours aren't even codified, just implied.

You are trying to claim your taxes are voluntary? They aren’t

 

[johnnyb255]

You are trying to claim your taxes are voluntary? They aren’t

No, I'm not trying to claim that. I didn't realise what you were describing was a characterisation of taxes- I don't see taxes as just 'paying for my neighbour', I see it as paying for my community which includes me. National surveys in Australia actually show people will pay more taxes for better services, especially medical.

And no one gets shot for not paying their taxes here.

EDIT: Also aren't medical bills the number 1 reason for bankruptcy in the US? How is that not the health insurance industry essentially seizing your bank account?

 

[deleted480308]

No, I'm not trying to claim that. I didn't realise what you were describing was a characterisation of taxes- I don't see taxes as just 'paying for my neighbour', I see it as paying for my community which includes me. National surveys in Australia actually show people will pay more taxes for better services, especially medical.

And no one gets shot for not paying their taxes here.

EDIT: Also aren't medical bills the number 1 reason for bankruptcy in the US? How is that not the health insurance industry essentially seizing your bank account?

YOu are (and should be) liable for your own bills in the US but we don’t have debtor prisons here

The australian govt will absolutely arrest you (and shoot you if you resist hard enough) if you don’t pay your taxes. That’s how taxes work. Threat of violence

 

[johnnyb255]

The australian govt will absolutely arrest you (and shoot you if you resist hard enough) if you don’t pay your taxes. That’s how taxes work. Threat of violence

Yeah OK, the absurdity is losing its appeal at 3AM. I'm out.

 

[Guest8]

Yeah OK, the absurdity is losing its appeal at 3AM. I'm out.

As you can see libertarian paranoia is quite strong over here in the US. Every man likes to fantasize himself as a perfectly self-sufficient island, neglecting how much of their "self-sufficiency" is completely dependent on others. Get some sleep; don't lose any over our idiocy.

 

[bauber]

YOu are (and should be) liable for your own bills in the US but we don’t have debtor prisons here

Debtors' prison: ACLU report details 'criminalization of private debt'

The campaign against 'modern day debtors prisons' broadens into the private debt collection industry

www.nbcnews.com

 

[johnnyb255]

As you can see libertarian paranoia is quite strong over here in the US. Every man likes to fantasize himself as a perfectly self-sufficient island, neglecting how much of their "self-sufficiency" is completely dependent on others. Get some sleep; don't lose any over our idiocy.

Ha, I've just realised the irony. I'm up anyway- I'm doing my tax return!

 

[deleted480308]

Debtors' prison: ACLU report details 'criminalization of private debt'

The campaign against 'modern day debtors prisons' broadens into the private debt collection industry

www.nbcnews.com

Yeah, those are uncool anomalies. I’m fine wth eliminating those loopholes

Bail should cost money though, i’m not ok with arbitrary ending of bail

 

[messengers]

General public thinks MDs are swimming in pools of money like Scrooge McDuck. They see how much their insurance was billed for but don't realize that is not what the insurance is paying. Somehow when I try and have discussions about healthcare with friends/family (not in a medical field) they always think physicians are the enemy.

 

[PhillyMed777]

General public thinks MDs are swimming in pools of money like Scrooge McDuck. They see how much their insurance was billed for but don't realize that is not what the insurance is paying. Somehow when I try and have discussions about healthcare with friends/family (not in a medical field) they always think physicians are the enemy.

That's why I never tell anyone in public I am a physician.
It can more often than not encourage hate or trigger someone. I am purposefully as vague as possible if asked.

 

[StatistPriceControlsFail]

Just checking back in during the COVID-19 fun. Do you still want MORE government controls, more bureaucracy, and more restrictions over medicine, pharmaceuticals, drug and vaccine development, hospital certifications, insurance, devices, and materials?

 

[Guest8]

Just checking back in during the COVID-19 fun. Do you still want MORE government controls, more bureaucracy, and more restrictions over medicine, pharmaceuticals, drug and vaccine development, hospital certifications, insurance, devices, and materials?

Are you implying the free market was doing an excellent job containing the virus? I don't think the libertarian position has proved very helpful in this pandemic, hence governments stepping in and forcing the closure of bars/restaurants/gatherings, closing international travel, and generally taking charge. If anything, our system has looked like a mess compared to countries like South Korea so far.