Mediocrity to Med School

[Hokum Peddler]

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I have been reading some really inspiring stories from fellow nontrads who choose a path to medicine at an older age, and a very common theme that I come across time and time again is one of making that leap from a place/profession/lifestyle in which that person was a great success. All the credit in the world goes to those of you who have made such a courageous choice after having made a name for yourself in another arena. That said, I'd like to know if there are any nontrads out there who have made it, or are working on making it, through medical school who have arrived there from a relatively mediocre career or maybe a troubled life? I don't know if that scenario is actually a rarity, or if it's just that people would rather keep it to themselves to maintain an appearance of exceptionalism in what is such a competitive environment.

I thought I would share my story in an attempt to open a discussion and to lend some support to those of you who are thinking about taking your first real shot at something exceptional. Myself, I am 33 years old and currently working on my BS in neuroscience with the plan of attending med school after. Prior to my college re-entry three years ago, I had been steadily climbing my way out of a life wrought by severe depression and academic failure. My issues were rooted deep into my adolescence where I was basically left to my own devices after a badly timed divorce. Despite the fact that I possessed a potential to do great things, having no real guidance or a significant role model throughout my teenage years eventually lead to a long track record of abandonment issues, codependency, and insecurity. There were a couple of failed attempts at college after high school and in my early twenties where I started off strong but eventually withdrew. I was always ambitious with my academic goals, but my interests were so torn by a wide range of subjects that I was left paralysed by an intense fear of making the wrong decision.

When I withdrew from school, it marked the end of a series of debilitating and humiliating personal failures. I simply hit rock bottom as I thought my chances of doing something important with my life were all but gone. The only thing left to do at that point was to try to salvage some sense of self-worth and move on to something different. For me, that something began with simple day to day things. Get a job. Find a place to live. Pay my bills. Get in shape. Eat healthier. Steadily, I learned how to sustain my work ethic and moved on to more empowering tasks. Make new friends. Take the initiative to pursue leadership roles in the workplace. Travel to new places. Step outside of my comfort zone. Slowly but surely, new milestones and new meaningful levels of personal growth were reached. Mend old relationships. Forgive my parents. Forgive myself.

These seemingly minor events aren't typically the things you see listed on a resume or a med school application. These are, however, some of the life experiences that I value the most as they molded me into the driven, ambitious, and focused person that I am today. I understood wholeheartedly when I decided to go get my formal education and when I chose medicine that I possessed the fortitude and perseverance to maintain an academic life, and more importantly, to thrive in it. It's never too late, my friends.

 

[CastleG8]

Wow, I would have sworn you were writing about me just then.

 

[Jumoke]

*wipes tear

 

[Hokum Peddler]

Wow, I would have sworn you were writing about me just then.

I am simultaneously happy and sorry that it resonated with you. Mostly happy because it means that you are in a good place here and now. Cheers.

 

[deleted400919]

Thank you for sharing your inspiring story. As someone who has suffered from depression my entire life, I know how difficult it can be to make small leaps of faith. Especially with the herculean tasks associated with working towards medical school. For me, sitting in one place and being able to study without distractions or self-defeating thoughts is a mountain in itself. Everything you listed that you worked hard to improve in your life are the same things I struggle to tackle every day. We see the world differently and it's nice to see that others who have gone through the same are able to make positive changes and succeed. Best of luck to you.

 

[Law2Doc]

I have been reading some really inspiring stories from fellow nontrads who choose a path to medicine at an older age, and a very common theme that I come across time and time again is one of making that leap from a place/profession/lifestyle in which that person was a great success. All the credit in the world goes to those of you who have made such a courageous choice after having made a name for yourself in another arena. That said, I'd like to know if there are any nontrads out there who have made it, or are working on making it, through medical school who have arrived there from a relatively mediocre career or maybe a troubled life? I don't know if that scenario is actually a rarity, or if it's just that people would rather keep it to themselves to maintain an appearance of exceptionalism in what is such a competitive environment.

I thought I would share my story in an attempt to open a discussion and to lend some support to those of you who are thinking about taking your first real shot at something exceptional. Myself, I am 33 years old and currently working on my BS in neuroscience with the plan of attending med school after. Prior to my college re-entry three years ago, I had been steadily climbing my way out of a life wrought by severe depression and academic failure. My issues were rooted deep into my adolescence where I was basically left to my own devices after a badly timed divorce. Despite the fact that I possessed a potential to do great things, having no real guidance or a significant role model throughout my teenage years eventually lead to a long track record of abandonment issues, codependency, and insecurity. There were a couple of failed attempts at college after high school and in my early twenties where I started off strong but eventually withdrew. I was always ambitious with my academic goals, but my interests were so torn by a wide range of subjects that I was left paralysed by an intense fear of making the wrong decision.

When I withdrew from school, it marked the end of a series of debilitating and humiliating personal failures. I simply hit rock bottom as I thought my chances of doing something important with my life were all but gone. The only thing left to do at that point was to try to salvage some sense of self-worth and move on to something different. For me, that something began with simple day to day things. Get a job. Find a place to live. Pay my bills. Get in shape. Eat healthier. Steadily, I learned how to sustain my work ethic and moved on to more empowering tasks. Make new friends. Take the initiative to pursue leadership roles in the workplace. Travel to new places. Step outside of my comfort zone. Slowly but surely, new milestones and new meaningful levels of personal growth were reached. Mend old relationships. Forgive my parents. Forgive myself.

These seemingly minor events aren't typically the things you see listed on a resume or a med school application. These are, however, some of the life experiences that I value the most as they molded me into the driven, ambitious, and focused person that I am today. I understood wholeheartedly when I decided to go get my formal education and when I chose medicine that I possessed the fortitude and perseverance to maintain an academic life, and more importantly, to thrive in it. It's never too late, my friends.

While I think if you've really turned things around you can certainly go this route, you had better not use the first two and a half paragraphs as your back story. No adcoms want to hear that left to your own devices you will hit rock bottom, be insecure, codependent, paralyzed by decisions. Med school is often a pretty solitary, isolated existence, and you need a lot of self focus and self direction/initiative. A lot if it is about making good decisions, often on inadequate information, that can drastically impact people's lives. Make sure you are up to this.

 

[sstespri]

Although my nontraditional story doesn't quite go the way yours did, I commend you on your effort in achieving your goal. Work hard and good things will come your way. People don't just 'get lucky.'

 

[Hokum Peddler]

Thank you for sharing your inspiring story. As someone who has suffered from depression my entire life, I know how difficult it can be to make small leaps of faith. Especially with the herculean tasks associated with working towards medical school. For me, sitting in one place and being able to study without distractions or self-defeating thoughts is a mountain in itself. Everything you listed that you worked hard to improve in your life are the same things I struggle to tackle every day. We see the world differently and it's nice to see that others who have gone through the same are able to make positive changes and succeed. Best of luck to you.

Thanks for your kindness. It's one foot in front of the other that keeps us moving, you know? Such a common issue I see with intelligent depressives is choice paralysis dude to over-thinking things. The hard part for me was to have my talent for critical analysis, which often set me apart from my peers, also be the very thing that held me back from moving forward. When I cared about an outcome so much, it was difficult to make a move on it or to let it go. The greatest lesson that I learned about how to get over that hump, was to just separate the big things from the little things. I used to think that I needed to first build myself up with preparedness like some sort of knight going into battle with the armor, the shield, and the sword before putting myself out there. If I wasn't as ready and absolutely sure of myself as possible, I'd keep preparing like the knight who keeps weighing himself down with more armor and weapons. Meanwhile, while all this getting ready and strategizing is going on, the battle outside already started, and guess what, I missed it. The trick is learning how be ok with not knowing what is going to happen - letting go and putting yourself out there anyway. Just as you said it, "make small leaps of faith." Depression is, if we are honest, something that tends to linger,even when making forward progress. What many depressives have trouble seeing is that you can be depressed and a be whole lot of other things too. You can be depressed and be holding a job. You can be depressed and be studying. You can be depressed and be helping your community. You can be depressed and be making friends. You can be depressed and be succeeding in your career. Sooner of later you'll stop and look back to notice all you have accomplished, and your life becomes a little less depressing.

While I think if you've really turned things around you can certainly go this route, you had better not use the first two and a half paragraphs as your back story. No adcoms want to hear that left to your own devices you will hit rock bottom, be insecure, codependent, paralyzed by decisions. Med school is often a pretty solitary, isolated existence, and you need a lot of self focus and self direction/initiative. A lot if it is about making good decisions, often on inadequate information, that can drastically impact people's lives. Make sure you are up to this.

Appreciate your advice. I believe that I am better at those things than most people precisely because I once struggled with them. If an adcom wants to base their lack of confidence in my ability to perform on my former life and not the 10 years of accelerating forward afterward, well that's their prerogative. I have to say, though, that it seems rather short-sided and it shows a lack of faith in the system of treatment which they represent (provided that they do subscribe to psychotherapy). I believe that my honesty and my openness are virtues that will lend well to my pursuit of being a physician, I just can't see myself ever holding back my feelings or glossing over my past life to get ahead. And hey, if it bites me in the ass, the world will still turn.

Although my nontraditional story doesn't quite go the way yours did, I commend you on your effort in achieving your goal. Work hard and good things will come your way. People don't just 'get lucky.'

Appreciate your support. I will try my best.

 

[534455]

I have been reading some really inspiring stories from fellow nontrads who choose a path to medicine at an older age, and a very common theme that I come across time and time again is one of making that leap from a place/profession/lifestyle in which that person was a great success. All the credit in the world goes to those of you who have made such a courageous choice after having made a name for yourself in another arena..

Thanks, but don't give us that much credit. We did it because we are selfish, or at least many of us, including me. It was a decision to take care of my family and me first, instead of fail, be miserable and go the way of most of Americans. America is in a desperate place. I am well aware that at my age, I am doing something quite unique and formidable. Everyday I get the "OMG!", or, "You are in medical school at your age!?!?"
They are supportive. They are impressed. But they dont know the whole story. So I just say "thanks" and move on.

Please know this: each and everyone of us has a story. To put it less affectionately, everyone's manure stinks. What you don't know is that behind every "star" or "physician giant" lay really broken stories behind them. Everyone is flawed, broken, cracked in one way or another. The real question is: do they ever resolve their outstanding issues?

Few do.

I thought I would share my story in an attempt to open a discussion and to lend some support to those of you who are thinking about taking your first real shot at something exceptional. Myself, I am 33 years old and currently working on my BS in neuroscience with the plan of attending med school after..

You are so, so young, my dear SDN-er. Please be kind to yourself. You have a whole life to look forward to. Johnathan Winters (know him?) just died at the age of 87. Your 33 is nothing compared to 87. You are doing the right things: assuming leadership positions, making amends, forgiving, concentrating on your body, nutrition, your CV, etc. You are living, growing, evolving, reflecting. Perfect!

In my opinion, if you do well enough on the MCAT an GPA issues for medical school, you are exactly what medical schools should be hunting down, capturing, and dragging back to their campuses to turn into physicians. So much of what is allowed to be admitted to medical schools are mistakes. Kids with no maturity, no interpersonal skills, entitlement mindset, whiners, poor ability to think for themselves, lack of seriousness in life. When my physician friends were in their 20s, like me, we took life very seriously. We had fun but we held down jobs, provided for our families, pitched in with the household, were responsible. I just don't see that in the kids today.

Your background information is all a plus for the type of physician you will make. While none of it should be shared in a CV, Resume or AMCAS application, and certainly not a medical school interview, know that all of your personal experiences (e.g. codepdency, depression, etc) will make you a far better physician than most today. The more broken you have been, coupled with necessary healing, the better physician healer you will be. Have you ever heard of Henri Nouwen? He wrote a great book called "The Wounded Healer". Great stuff.

The real issue here is the following: doing the work. I was told by two psychologists (one is a personal friend of my family from our church back home where we supported her when her husband died), that less than 70% of the population does their "inner work" to take care of their demons, their deficits, their shortcomings. Think about that. Only about 30% of the population does the necessary inner cleaning to deal with their mess. Until they resolve them, they will just throw it at others,hence failed marriages, failed relationships, few friends, poor work performance, hobbling through life. So I write all this with a caveat: you will achieve greatness IF you do the work, and by what I can read, it seems like you are doing just that. I wish more of us would.

You have my support. I wish we could clone you

 

[Hokum Peddler]

Thanks, but don't give us that much credit. We did it because we are selfish, or at least many of us, including me. It was a decision to take care of my family and me first, instead of fail, be miserable and go the way of most of Americans.

I hear what you are saying, but I'll go ahead and stick with my credit to you, sir, as taking care of your loved ones gets you a check-mark for selflessness in my book.

Everyone is flawed, broken, cracked in one way or another. The real question is: do they ever resolve their outstanding issues?

Few do.

Truth. Like I was saying in my reply to peanutp above, one of the most freeing ah-hah moments for me during my recovery was realizing that my issues and my successes could coexist.

Have you ever heard of Henri Nouwen? He wrote a great book called "The Wounded Healer". Great stuff.

I have not, but will be sure to check it out.

So I write all this with a caveat: you will achieve greatness IF you do the work, and by what I can read, it seems like you are doing just that. I wish more of us would.

You have my support. I wish we could clone you

You've made my day. Thanks for all of the sound advice and encouragement. I look forward to working with individuals like you when I get to med school. All the best to you and yours.

P.S. I've always wanted my own clone army.

 

[534455]

P.S. I've always wanted my own clone army.

I thought about you today. I was having coffee at a local establishment, studying my textbook, highlighter in hand, and napkins scribbling cranial nerves. You'll get there eventually and understand.

I looked around the place where I was studying and observed.

Everyone has a story.
Everyone is hurting.
My Catholic Priest back at home said it best during dinner when we had him over one night at our home. He said,

"How do you treat someone with a limp?"
We just looked at him knowing he had a more succinct answer than what we could muster

"You feel compassion for them but you do not judge them, nor do you look at them as lesser individuals"

Some of the things I am about to write I am making up, so please don't take it as me writing about you.

Addiction (alcohol, drugs, sex, money, gambling, etc).
Depression (Adjustment disorder, Situational, Clinical etc)
Suicidal Ideations without a Plan
Suicidal Ideations with a Plan
High number of marriages/divorces
Inability to bond with another (few to zero interpersonal relationships)
Withdrawn
Anxiety Disorder

The list is endless. Of the top 10 prescribed agents in the USA, psychiatric drugs make up a large chunk of change, followed by illnesses that are self-inflicted: SSRI (anti-depressants), Anxiety Agents, Sleep Agents, Cholesterol products

To judge someone as being unfit to be a physician because they were/are on antidepressants, had a history of addiction disorder, had a DUI, anxiety disorder is like judging someone with a limp.

I think having had these problems AND DEALING WITH THEM, RESOLVING THEM, MAKES YOU A FARRRRR BETTER PHYSICIAN than the next guy/gal who had them ( we've all had problems) but failed to resolve them.

Your personal problems are pluses in my book.....if you have resolved them.

There is a category to which physicians are placed which is the kiss of death. It's called the "Disruptive Physician" category. These are people who had the MCAT scores, the GPA and the perseverance to slog through medical school...b/c that is all it really is....perseverance. So what does that make them? Doctors.

But what kind of doctors?

Only Heaven knows. Heaven help us what furor these people might unleash on the rest of us.

I see it all the time in medical school with the kids. They send hateful emails to professors "anonymously" because they did not like the questions on the exam, they collectively bully the professors to drop difficult questions from exams b/c it brought their scores down, they cheat on exams, traffic in drugs (amphetamines and the like), and yet, we are to believe that because they "made it" into medical school, we should be comforted.

Worry. Be very afraid. I am. But I can't take it upon myself to worry about them b/c I am not their parent...thankfully. . I only have myself to worry about, my family who is moving to be with me next month, and that's it!

Jump through the hoops you must jump through b/c you must, if you wish to be a physician.
Get the grades. Get the MCAT scores, shine in your AMCAS application to get invited for a secondary, and dance on stage for your interview to get accepted.

show them you're a gift to society. Show them they would be foolish to NOT let you in. Make it out to be that they are missing the opportunity to have the best medical student come their way for the next class b/c you are going to lead the class through you example (I do).

As an older student, you bring so much to the table. I could write a book on the topic and I'm only on a first year MD student.

But first things first. Get the pre-reqs out of the way, and by all means, tell everyone and anyone what a fabulous applicant you are for medical school. Leave off all of the other stuff for when you become a physician, and have patients who are addicts, who are depressed, who have thought of suicide, who have panic disorders, etc, etc, etc. When they hear your story, you will be a miracle worker.

salut!

 

[Jumoke]

^^^U rock^^^👍

 

[cbarne01]

^^^u rock^^^👍

+1