Memorization

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pavtca

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Current and past medical students, I was wondering how much memorization was expected of you in med school. assume the first year or two would be more memorization-heavy. Is that correct? I like critical thinking and logical reasoning but am not a big fan of memorization. Is medicine the wrong profession for me? 😕
 
If you think it's the wrong field for you, you're probably right.
 
It's like 90% memorization. Of course, using logical reasoning can prevent some memorization if you understand how and why things work.
 
I think it's closer to ~98% memorization + ~2% smarts, which is difficult to define or measure. Logic is v. impt but it won't save your ass or get you through.
 
any dumb guy with a good memory can get through med school. the first 2 years at least.

as for the hands on part........
 
ok um this is crazy but my mom is like
there is no memorization at all
i mean i let her read this thread and she has invited you all to dinner for her no-memorization lecture



i am a poor long term memorizer!!! 🙁
 
In the beginning, you get to use your brain for about 10% of the material I'd say, meaning for every one hour of studying that you spend "learning" there's nine spent smashing your face in with a concrete block. The further you go in medical school, the more cuddle-time you get with the concrete. By the time I hit second year, I think I learned one unique concept per week. By the time boards came around, I realized I had honestly forgot how to think. It sounds sad, but only because it is. 👎

HamOn
 
pavtca said:
Current and past medical students, I was wondering how much memorization was expected of you in med school. assume the first year or two would be more memorization-heavy. Is that correct? I like critical thinking and logical reasoning but am not a big fan of memorization. Is medicine the wrong profession for me? 😕
piles and piles of memorization. that's all it is your first two years. you don't need to be a genius to get through medical school, just make sure your hippocampus is nice and developed.
 
DieselPetrolGrl said:
ok um this is crazy but my mom is like
there is no memorization at all
i mean i let her read this thread and she has invited you all to dinner for her no-memorization lecture



i am a poor long term memorizer!!! 🙁


No offense intended to your mother, but how can you truly "learn" anatomy, which is essentially just adding 2,000 words to your vocabulary. I suppose you could "learn" Latin, and maybe then anatomy would be intuitive. The same goes for distinguishing the classifications of all the microbes, drugs, syndromes, etc. For example, understanding how drugs work doesn't preclude you from having to memorize the tiny unique differences between them (i.e. drug A1 causes heartburn and diarrhea, while drug A2 causes heartburn and nausea but less diarrhea; and both are used to treat "Jimmy-John-Joe's" Disease).

I think what she might have been getting at was that if you understand how the entire universe of medical science falls into place, things will seem intuitive. Good luck getting that kind of perspective under the courseload of medical school, and you'll still have to memorize the 200,000 names for all of it.

HamOn
 
TheFlash said:
piles and piles of memorization. that's all it is your first two years. you don't need to be a genius to get through medical school, just make sure your hippocampus is nice and developed.

Memorization is only one part of learning, but is an integral part to long term storage of memory (hence the word root). Yes, you have to memorize a lot, but the goal is to have you remember the important parts of what you memorized. Unfortunately, if the clinically important parts of medicine are 20%, then you need to learn another 80%, that you'll forget, in order to make the 20% stick.

An analogy is the flight training that I'm doing right now. We probably won't ever normally fly manuvers at extememly slow speeds, yet we practice them almost every lesson. The goal is to become comfortable at landing speeds. When people start flying, it seems that the airplane will fall right out of the sky on final approach. By practing and learning manuvers that are even slower that landing, regularly, pretty soon landing feels normal.

Medical education is no different. No, you'll never have to know some of off-the-wall biochem pathways, but by learning the freaky ones, maybe glycolysis and the TCA cycle will become second nature, and you'll be able to at least grasp the concept of why you can't, for example, use fructose IV (would cause malilgnant hyperthermia). Though you might not remember exactly why, you could pick up a book, and relearn it almost instantly.

Howevery, I disagree with the people on here that think that memorization is all that's required.

If you attempt to just memorize anatomy, you aren't doing yourself nor your patients any favors.
Of course you can "learn" anatomy. If you understand it, it takes a significant burden off of the memorization requirement. The body isn't just a random throw-together of parts, it's put together like a well-built building, and by understanding the reasoning of why things are where they are (embryologically as well), it becomes much easier, and somewhat intuitive.

An example is the forearm musculature. It's an engineering marvel, and if you look at it that way, you'll be able to figure out why the hand movememts are as they are, beyond that of rote memorization.
 
I don't know about 90-10 memorization/reasoning. With the caveat that I am just an entering 2nd year, I'd say it's about 60% memorization and 40% reasoning. However, you may have to draw upon more knowledge than will be given to you in class.

A good example is anatomy. You could memorize everything, but a really solid grasp of Latin will allow you to get away with knowing less. A really solid grasp of embryology will allow you to get away with even less. Knowing nerves will make it easier to remember vessels, etc.

The only 1st year class so far that's been 90-10 memorization for me has been microbiology. There's just no way around this one.
 
oudoc08 said:
Memorization is only one part of learning, but is an integral part to long term storage of memory (hence the word root). Yes, you have to memorize a lot, but the goal is to have you remember the important parts of what you memorized. Unfortunately, if the clinically important parts of medicine are 20%, then you need to learn another 80%, that you'll forget, in order to make the 20% stick.

An analogy is the flight training that I'm doing right now. We probably won't ever normally fly manuvers at extememly slow speeds, yet we practice them almost every lesson. The goal is to become comfortable at landing speeds. When people start flying, it seems that the airplane will fall right out of the sky on final approach. By practing and learning manuvers that are even slower that landing, regularly, pretty soon landing feels normal.

Medical education is no different. No, you'll never have to know some of off-the-wall biochem pathways, but by learning the freaky ones, maybe glycolysis and the TCA cycle will become second nature, and you'll be able to at least grasp the concept of why you can't, for example, use fructose IV (would cause malilgnant hyperthermia). Though you might not remember exactly why, you could pick up a book, and relearn it almost instantly.

Howevery, I disagree with the people on here that think that memorization is all that's required.

If you attempt to just memorize anatomy, you aren't doing yourself nor your patients any favors.
Of course you can "learn" anatomy. If you understand it, it takes a significant burden off of the memorization requirement. The body isn't just a random throw-together of parts, it's put together like a well-built building, and by understanding the reasoning of why things are where they are (embryologically as well), it becomes much easier, and somewhat intuitive.

An example is the forearm musculature. It's an engineering marvel, and if you look at it that way, you'll be able to figure out why the hand movememts are as they are, beyond that of rote memorization.
memorization and the ability to "learn" are not mutually exclusive. obviously you don't want to get through school using only jargon and mneumonics, but the amount of memorization you've got to do before you understand the mechanics behind, say, physiology or anatomy, is quite substantial.

exercise that hippocampus.
 
someone give me some memory enhancing drugs.
 
bring on the focus factor..... the people in the commercial say it really works so it must be true 😉
 
I'm a first year this fall, but last semester when I was trying to memorize a million things for my Biochem and Histology classes, someone online told me about a program called SuperMemo (www.supermemo.com).

It was actually developed for med students. There are some other flashier memorization programs out there, but I've found that this one works very well for me. Turned my grade in my Histo class around 180 degrees.

Try out the trial version and see if it works for you. Oh yeah, and I promise I don't work for them or know anyone who does. 😛
 
HamOnWholeWheat said:
No offense intended to your mother, but how can you truly "learn" anatomy, which is essentially just adding 2,000 words to your vocabulary. I suppose you could "learn" Latin, and maybe then anatomy would be intuitive. The same goes for distinguishing the classifications of all the microbes, drugs, syndromes, etc. For example, understanding how drugs work doesn't preclude you from having to memorize the tiny unique differences between them (i.e. drug A1 causes heartburn and diarrhea, while drug A2 causes heartburn and nausea but less diarrhea; and both are used to treat "Jimmy-John-Joe's" Disease).

I think what she might have been getting at was that if you understand how the entire universe of medical science falls into place, things will seem intuitive. Good luck getting that kind of perspective under the courseload of medical school, and you'll still have to memorize the 200,000 names for all of it.

HamOn
thats ok i think my mom has odd powers.
she learned anatomy too well - she is pre quizzing me for no reason and i feel like screaming SHOO i am pre ms1 let me be empty headed a bit longer hehehe

she says some banter about function dictates form and imagining systems working and things interacting make her she remember their names.

just join me and fear her. i am under the bed - there is room for you too 🙂
 
Hey,

There's definately memorization, but you'll find you're so immersed in this stuff, it just kind of sticks. It's not like you're memorizing all the digits of pi or something -- there's a lot of context, things fit together. The trick is, every time you see something, try to memorize it. This will take a lot of time up front, but later you're going to see it again and think, "Oh, yeah, I remember this stuff!" Also, you develop a bit of a professional memory. The first time you learn about a drug (generic and brand name, mechanism of action, half life, etc.) you're going to have to go over it lots and lots. Gradually, you just read it a couple of times, and you know it.

Anka
 
there's really no way around memorization for path and pharm. it's just so much random shiet.
 
Anka said:
Hey,

There's definately memorization, but you'll find you're so immersed in this stuff, it just kind of sticks. It's not like you're memorizing all the digits of pi or something -- there's a lot of context, things fit together. The trick is, every time you see something, try to memorize it. This will take a lot of time up front, but later you're going to see it again and think, "Oh, yeah, I remember this stuff!" Also, you develop a bit of a professional memory. The first time you learn about a drug (generic and brand name, mechanism of action, half life, etc.) you're going to have to go over it lots and lots. Gradually, you just read it a couple of times, and you know it.

Anka
thanks anka
very well put :thumbsup:
 
YouDontKnowJack said:
there's really no way around memorization for path and pharm. it's just so much random shiet.
If you take the time to learn path from a real source and learn medicine and pathophys, you probably have to remember 20 percent of path. You just have to remember something like. What comes to mind is all the glomerular diseases. There are probably what like 12 of those or something, each with a crapload of info. But if you understand renal path well you basically have to remember 2 lists. Nephrotic v. nephritic. Then u can figure out everything from there. If you had to memorize most of path you did a poor job learning it.
 
oudoc08 said:
Memorization is only one part of learning, but is an integral part to long term storage of memory (hence the word root). Yes, you have to memorize a lot, but the goal is to have you remember the important parts of what you memorized. Unfortunately, if the clinically important parts of medicine are 20%, then you need to learn another 80%, that you'll forget, in order to make the 20% stick.

An analogy is the flight training that I'm doing right now. We probably won't ever normally fly manuvers at extememly slow speeds, yet we practice them almost every lesson. The goal is to become comfortable at landing speeds. When people start flying, it seems that the airplane will fall right out of the sky on final approach. By practing and learning manuvers that are even slower that landing, regularly, pretty soon landing feels normal.

Medical education is no different. No, you'll never have to know some of off-the-wall biochem pathways, but by learning the freaky ones, maybe glycolysis and the TCA cycle will become second nature, and you'll be able to at least grasp the concept of why you can't, for example, use fructose IV (would cause malilgnant hyperthermia). Though you might not remember exactly why, you could pick up a book, and relearn it almost instantly.
Howevery, I disagree with the people on here that think that memorization is all that's required.

If you attempt to just memorize anatomy, you aren't doing yourself nor your patients any favors.
Of course you can "learn" anatomy. If you understand it, it takes a significant burden off of the memorization requirement. The body isn't just a random throw-together of parts, it's put together like a well-built building, and by understanding the reasoning of why things are where they are (embryologically as well), it becomes much easier, and somewhat intuitive.

An example is the forearm musculature. It's an engineering marvel, and if you look at it that way, you'll be able to figure out why the hand movememts are as they are, beyond that of rote memorization.



Your response demonstrates that you are just a 2nd year OU student. First, nobody said that memorization is all that is required. Second, go back to the first point. Thus, your response to this topic is moot and likewise circular with naivete.
 
It depends on how you learn. I was a visual learner and so I have to understand and picture in my mind how something works before I can committ it to memory. So for me, it was never just about memorizing. In a way, it sucked because I was so much slower than my classmates when it came to grasping and memorizing something. Initially, I did really poorly because I believed everyone else who said medical school is all memorization. After some bad grades, I finally just accepted that I am slower than others in my class and that I need to reread something several times and ask a ton of questions to get a clear understanding of something. It paid off and I started getting upper 90's. I wish I knew that when I started school.

If you are like me, then just accept that you might have to spend more time studying. If your professors aren't cool and you don't feel comfortable asking them questions, invest in a tutor. What I did was I jotted a lot of questions in the margins of my notes. I would then sit with my tutor or professor and ask questions to clarify those concepts.

The key is to make certain you understand everything really well and can apply that knowledge if given a difficult question. Once you have that down, you have to commit it to memory. For me, I just reread something 5 or 6 times and then shotgun memorized random terms that I knew were going to show up on the exam.
 
HamOnWholeWheat said:
No offense intended to your mother, but how can you truly "learn" anatomy, which is essentially just adding 2,000 words to your vocabulary. I suppose you could "learn" Latin, and maybe then anatomy would be intuitive. The same goes for distinguishing the classifications of all the microbes, drugs, syndromes, etc. For example, understanding how drugs work doesn't preclude you from having to memorize the tiny unique differences between them (i.e. drug A1 causes heartburn and diarrhea, while drug A2 causes heartburn and nausea but less diarrhea; and both are used to treat "Jimmy-John-Joe's" Disease).

Yeah, that's nice if your exams were like

1. Which drug causes Jimmy-John-Joe's Disease
a. DrugeA1
b. Drug A2
c. Drug A3
d. Drug A4

Our anatomy questions were always like

1. Billy Bob got shot in his back which ricocheted off the wall and hit is right arm at a 90 degree angle. Which of his arteries was severed.


So you couldn't just open up your Netter and just memorize parts without UNDERSTANDING the big picture.
 
Im also a big deductive logic guy, as opposed to a memorizer. I talked to my advisors about this. They told me that the first 2 years of med school would be tough, with text learning and what not, but when I got to years 3-4 with rotations, Id have more of a place to use those reasoning skills and do alot better. Would you say this is an accurate assessment?
 
There is no escape from memorization but i dont think it should be a problem thing would get better once u adapt to life in medical school. U r not required to everything but u should know something about everything. I think having a logical and analytical mind would rather help u memorize coz association and correlation are most critical elements of memorization process.
 
The first two years are going to be tough. With the exception of physio, the bulk of the first two years is sheer memorization and regurgitation, and the volume of material is such that there is just no *time* to sit and ponder and manipulate the concepts and to apply them critically. I'm speaking as someone who, like you, prefers critical thinking, reasoning, and application of concepts to cramming info - I studied chem in college, so the first two years of med school felt like standing in front of a fire hose.

HOWEVER, just because this sounds intimidating and out of line with your learning style does not mean that you shouldn't enter medicine. When you get to the clinical years, the tables turn and suddenly you find yourself drawing from the knowledge base that you managed to develop during the first two years with all that cramming, and you're using it to make decisions and solve problems on a daily basis. Retaining information in the clnical setting is also easier, and y ou'll find that you begin to develop intuition about what you're seeing medically.

So take heart, and don't give up! You're not alone in your apprehension, but be confident that it's only for two years, and then things will improve.
 
Medical school for me was mostly about memorizing. There is so much information to cram into your brain in a short amount of time. During the first two years of medical school, you don't have much to help you understand what you are learning.

The last two years of medical school involves much more critical thinking and using what you have learned in the first two years. There is still information to memorize, but you have to be able to use the information.

http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=20049323
 
$!n!$+er said:
There is no escape from memorization but i dont think it should be a problem thing would get better once u adapt to life in medical school. U r not required to everything but u should know something about everything. I think having a logical and analytical mind would rather help u memorize coz association and correlation are most critical elements of memorization process.

I agree with this. And some people seem to think I'm against memorizing. What I'm really saying is that some of you are going to have to do more work than your classmates. If you were like me in that you were a strong visual learner. You are going to have learn everything first and then proceed to memorize whereas most of your classmates will just start memorizing in a shotgun fashion and it sticks. I think with certain classes, shotgun memorizing works especially micro, pharm and path. This is why I though second year was much easier for visual people like myself because we could finally just avoid visualizing and just memorize terms in a shotgun fashion. But for classes like anatomy, physiology, biochem, neuroscience and immunology, I had to really understand the material before I could commit them to memory. It's kind of like a handicap in a manner of speaking but the positive thing is people like myself really excell when we finally do get the visualization and conceptual understanding down.
 
I was a math major. By comparison, there is no logic to medicine, just long lists that need to be memorized and then mentally cross-referencing these lists in clinical years.
 
doc_in_the_box said:
Your response demonstrates that you are just a 2nd year OU student. First, nobody said that memorization is all that is required. Second, go back to the first point. Thus, your response to this topic is moot and likewise circular with naivete.

Are you this big of a jerk in real-life or do you just get off expressing your penis envy online in an anonymous form?
 
jake2 said:
I was a math major. By comparison, there is no logic to medicine, just long lists that need to be memorized and then mentally cross-referencing these lists in clinical years.

Memorizing everything and knowing how to apply what one memorized are two entirely different tasks.
 
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