Mentioning atheism in my application?

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Rob Biomed

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I recognize that discussions of faith and/or atheism can sometimes be a taboo subject.

As a formerly religious person that is now an atheist, my transition to atheism has played a large role in my decision to pursue science and medicine. I suppose that in losing the father figure that is God and all notions of an afterlife, I came to place a higher value on human life and thus health. I do not believe that there is some great omnipotent deity that is looking over us and taking care of us. Rather, I believe that only through science and medicine we can alleviate human suffering.

Now the fact that science and medicine alleviate human suffering is rather obvious and undisputed. That is in no way the purpose or main topic of this post. What I am trying to get at is the fact that becoming an atheist has influenced my decision to become a part of the scientific and medical community. I am working on my secondary applications, and many schools aim to get a sense of where my interest in medicine comes from. They want to see what motivates me to pursue this difficult career. To be completely honest, my atheism is a significant source of my altruism and desire to practice medicine.

Would it be unwise for me to mention this in some way in my secondary essays? I obviously wouldn't be aiming to bash religions in doing so, but I recognize that certain religious people (that may potentially be part of admissions committees) might be consciously or subconsciously offended or judgmental. Would I be shooting myself in the foot, or enhancing my application by being honest?

Just curious to hear some other perspectives on this.
Cheers 🙂
 
It sounds like a tough situation for you, but I have to say I'd definitely avoid it. It's too risky to mention.
 
I don't know, I probably wouldn't mention atheism by name. Just talk about humanism, a sense of <insert noun>, etc.

Oddly enough, I mentioned my conversion from atheism/"apatheism" to Catholicism a few times, as my religion/faith plays a large role in my life. Mentioned at interview and accepted within 2 weeks. In the end, be honest and see where it takes you. At least you were true to yourself.

Best of luck.
 
You're looking at your application essay the wrong way.

They want to see what motivates me to pursue this difficult career.
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That's not the mentality you want. Remember your end goal: your end goal is to get into medical school. Therefore, what you want to give the reader is a sale. You are the product, they are the buyer. Why should they "buy" you?

Does athiesm and how it influenced your life make you a better product than someone else? Can you market it that way? If so, then go for it. If you do not think that it's something that makes you a more attractive applicant, then don't put it in.
 
Rob Biomed said:
I recognize that discussions of faith and/or atheism can sometimes be a taboo subject.

As a formerly religious person that is now an atheist, my transition to atheism has played a large role in my decision to pursue science and medicine. I suppose that in losing the father figure that is God and all notions of an afterlife, I came to place a higher value on human life and thus health. I do not believe that there is some great omnipotent deity that is looking over us and taking care of us. Rather, I believe that only through science and medicine we can alleviate human suffering.

Now the fact that science and medicine alleviate human suffering is rather obvious and undisputed. That is in no way the purpose or main topic of this post. What I am trying to get at is the fact that becoming an atheist has influenced my decision to become a part of the scientific and medical community. I am working on my secondary applications, and many schools aim to get a sense of where my interest in medicine comes from. They want to see what motivates me to pursue this difficult career. To be completely honest, my atheism is a significant source of my altruism and desire to practice medicine.

Would it be unwise for me to mention this in some way in my secondary essays? I obviously wouldn't be aiming to bash religions in doing so, but I recognize that certain religious people (that may potentially be part of admissions committees) might be consciously or subconsciously offended or judgmental. Would I be shooting myself in the foot, or enhancing my application by being honest?

Just curious to hear some other perspectives on this.
Cheers 🙂
Click to expand...

If it's mentioned, tread carefully. Going by your average US population (Yes I recognize there might be some variation, but I don't think a significant difference), 70% of your audience reading your PS will be Christians, and since they are obviously in the medical field they don't see any inherent conflict between religion and science/medicine. Imply that there is by stating your interest increased in those topics increased when you became an atheist, might ruffle some feathers.
 
Many physicians are religious and also harness the power science and medicine to care for patients. They don't necessarily place a lesser value on human life and health because they believe in a god. You are implying that they do.
 
Mt Kilimanjaro said:
Many physicians are religious and also harness the power science and medicine to care for patients. They don't necessarily place a lesser value on human life and health because they believe in a god. You are implying that they do.
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👍👍 I think it would be best for you to focus more on the effect that science and medicine can have on alleviating human suffering and less on the "conversion" to atheism that brought about these ideas.
 
Mt Kilimanjaro said:
Many physicians are religious and also harness the power science and medicine to care for patients. They don't necessarily place a lesser value on human life and health because they believe in a god. You are implying that they do.
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I don't think he's implying that.

OP, I know exactly what you're talking about but like others have said, I think you should talk about your philosophy without bringing up atheism explicitly. I mean . . . atheism is an absence of belief, so I feel like it doesn't ever actually need to be mentioned. Does that make any sense?
 
The Bunk said:
I don't think he's implying that.

OP, I know exactly what you're talking about but like others have said, I think you should talk about your philosophy without bringing up atheism explicitly. I mean . . . atheism is an absence of belief, so I feel like it doesn't ever actually need to be mentioned. Does that make any sense?
Click to expand...

200% agreed. Talk about humanism in a secular way; no need to drop the A-word
 
it can't possibly help you, but it could potentially hurt you. i would avoid explicitly mentioning it.
 
Definitely don't disparage religion or a deity, the person reading your app will probably be Jewish.
 
BlueLabel said:
200% agreed. Talk about humanism in a secular way; no need to drop the A-word
Click to expand...


Haha, very good point. I use the word "atheist" to help illustrate for you guys where I am coming from. It sucks that even self-identifying as an atheist has such negative connotations, but if I do talk about this in my essays I would be extremely careful with my wording (likely not even dropping the blasphemous "A-word"). I would just like to somehow convey that it is an aspect of my life that is important to me and has led me to medicine.

Thanks for the responses guys, I appreciate them all.
 
GoPelicans said:
Definitely don't disparage religion or a deity, the person reading your app will probably be Jewish.
Click to expand...


Ahh isn't that the truth. Well I suppose that makes the irony of it all oh so much sweeter since I in fact de-converted from Judaism.. I suppose I should mention that as well to be more specific? :laugh:
 
I would say you are fine so long as you keep it positive and make sure you don't tread on the sensibilities of any other religions.
 
I struggled with the exact same question, especially because my conversion to atheism (if you can call it that) has provided me a beautiful view of life, of the workings of the body, of how incredible and improbable our evolution is. I avoided it. How often have you told people you're an "atheist" or (for me) "evolutionary biology" major and had them react angrily or with disgust? I can easily rattle off 5 times off the top of my head, and I'd imagine you could tank your chances with even one old-fashioned fundamentalist on the adcom for your school. It's crappy, because I understand what you mean by it affecting your life-view and love for science, but people of faith can react extraordinarily poorly to "atheism", even in a more scientific field, which tend to be heathen-friendlier.
 
akaMondo said:
I struggled with the exact same question, especially because my conversion to atheism (if you can call it that) has provided me a beautiful view of life, of the workings of the body, of how incredible and improbable our evolution is. I avoided it. How often have you told people you're an "atheist" or (for me) "evolutionary biology" major and had them react angrily or with disgust? I can easily rattle off 5 times off the top of my head, and I'd imagine you could tank your chances with even one old-fashioned fundamentalist on the adcom for your school. It's crappy, because I understand what you mean by it affecting your life-view and love for science, but people of faith can react extraordinarily poorly to "atheism", even in a more scientific field, which tend to be heathen-friendlier.
Click to expand...

I've never encountered a negative experience when discussing evolutionary biology, and I'm from the Deep South. But I guess YMMV. Also, religion/faith and science should intersect. As an aspiring religious person and someone who also loves science, I would like to say that. Most Christians today that I meet believe in evolution. Catholic dogma holds theistic evolution to be probable. The whole "if you are religious, you are unintelligent" and "if you are atheist, you are intelligent" generalizations are foolish.
 
There is only one right thing to do. Do not mention atheism and/or theology in any written statements period. You came too far for some biased fool to tank your application.
 
This is a terrible idea and I can't imagine a way that you can spin this where it would sound good. At best, you're going to be writing an essay about some personal revelation. Imagine if somebody wrote an essay about how their revelation that God exists and conversion to Catholicism made them want to become a doctor because they realized god loves all his little children...yeah doesn't sound like a great essay right? Pretty much as bad as saying something dumb like "only through science and medicine can we alleviate human suffering" (which is absolutely not true).
 
It has lot of potential to make someone not like, very little upside.

I would leave it out unless its truly something that's like a core part of you. Either way leave it off your application in paper and you can chat about it during interviews.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
This is a terrible idea and I can't imagine a way that you can spin this where it would sound good. At best, you're going to be writing an essay about some personal revelation. Imagine if somebody wrote an essay about how their revelation that God exists and conversion to Catholicism made them want to become a doctor because they realized god loves all his little children...yeah doesn't sound like a great essay right? Pretty much as bad as saying something dumb like "only through science and medicine can we alleviate human suffering" (which is absolutely not true).
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That's kinda harsh. I don't see why that's a dumb thing to say.
 
The Bunk said:
That's kinda harsh. I don't see why that's a dumb thing to say.
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People find relief through spiritual means. I am not personally religious myself, so I understand where you're coming from... 'spiritual relief' (which is really just peace of mind) sounds like some really nebulous phrase to non-religious folks like us. But you also need to look at it from the perspective of other side of the spectrum. It can come off as condescending and disrespectful to the very large subset of the people who are religious, including someone who may potentially be reading your app.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
This is a terrible idea and I can't imagine a way that you can spin this where it would sound good. At best, you're going to be writing an essay about some personal revelation. Imagine if somebody wrote an essay about how their revelation that God exists and conversion to Catholicism made them want to become a doctor because they realized god loves all his little children...yeah doesn't sound like a great essay right? Pretty much as bad as saying something dumb like "only through science and medicine can we alleviate human suffering" (which is absolutely not true).
Click to expand...

I'm an atheist and obviously would never be offended by someone's lack of religious beliefs, but I agree that using atheism as your primary reason for going into medicine seems a little hollow.

For example, if I said to you, "Only through great teachers can children reach their fullest potential," would you know whether I even wanted to be a teacher? Or whether I thought I would enjoy or excel at teaching? Or whether I liked kids? Or whether I'd spent a great deal of time thinking about what a career in education would entail? Simply recognizing that a field is very important is not a very compelling reason for wanting to work in that field for the rest of your life. There are a countless number of crucially important jobs in the world, many of which save lives (including jobs outside the sciences). Why do you want to do this one?

I'm not saying that your belief in the importance of science and medicine isn't important or worth mentioning, but I wouldn't hinge my PS on it.
 
cookiemonsters said:
People find relief through spiritual means. I am not personally religious myself, so I understand where you're coming from... 'spiritual relief' sounds like some really nebulous phrase to non-religious folks like us. But you also need to look at it from the perspective of other side of the spectrum. It can come off as condescending and denigrating to the very large subset of the people who are religious, including someone who may potentially be reading your app.
Click to expand...

+1

And many people work to improve the lives of others outside of the sciences. Social workers, humanitarians, relief workers, firefighters, etc. etc. Disease is certainly not the only form of human suffering.

Stating that only people working in science and medicine are effectively alleviating suffering is a bit hubristic, IMO.
 
Do NOT mention "atheism" anywhere.

Source: I am an atheist living in the United States.
 
Talking about atheism is like me talking about my non-golfing

Discuss people, beliefs, values, but not atheism

I see no benefit whatsoever in doing so
 
Beargryllz said:
Talking about atheism is like me talking about my non-golfing

Discuss people, beliefs, values, but not atheism

I see no benefit whatsoever in doing so
Click to expand...

Good morning neighbor! Have you heard the good news? Tiger Woods, our lord and savior has arisen again. May I come in?
 
I'd recommend against it unless you handle it exceptionally delicately. At least don't use the word atheist lol
 
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NO. BAD DOG.

Dont even REMOTELY broach the subject of religion in a personal statement. Its far too risky. It's also not relevant to a medical school personal statement. Really, its not. And even if it was, there is no need to write a masterpiece meant for a literary. The people reading these "works of art" are just regular people going to their daily job. They want to see that you've thought this decision through, have some insight into the profession, and can communicate those ideas in a concise coherent manner. That's it.
 
OP- I know what you mean. Our story is very similar, I'm sure. Ditching my faith and religion allowed me to value science, medicine, and human flourishing all the more. While I think religion and faith are unnecessary extensions of identity, some people value their faith and religion as passionately as we discourage it. For the same reasons, ironically.

For what it's worth, check this video out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KG5s_-Khvg
 
Hmmm. I applied last year and talked about atheism in my personal statement and in at least 1 of my 3 interviews, as well as in secondary applications. I actually just went back to reread my personal statement so I could better answer your question. I didn't actually mention atheism, but I very clearly referenced it. I know I mentioned it directly in a few secondaries.

Big picture: I don't think this was a make or break detail in my entire application, but this could certainly be school-dependent. I think the most important thing is to be honest. If your loss of religion was truly a major event, feel free to discuss it and how it inspired you to change/choose medicine. Don't be militant about it, if you include it in your app and it comes up, absolutely elaborate on your reasons, but there is no reason to bring it up by yourself. Your interviewer may very well not have thought you being an atheist was a big deal, but if you come across as militant, that would raise some red flags about your interpersonal skills. On that same vein, I wouldn't write an entire essay about atheism as it could easily make you sound one-dimensional.

This is kind of a tough topic to discuss in vague terms, and feel free to PM me to talk about it in greater detail. I just wanted to chime in because I know the prevailing SDN opinion is "NEVER EVER TALK ABOUT IT OMG," but I know that at least for me, and almost certainly for some other people, my application would have been incomplete and lacking some of the honest detail that made it truly resonate with who I am as a person if I had censored myself. If that population includes you, I would say go for it. You may (I would guess almost never) lose a school here or there because of an intolerant interviewer/attending, but I doubt it would swing a whole app cycle.

Like I said, feel free to hit me up with any questions or to talk about it in more detail. Edit: this goes for those who are not the OP as well. This question comes up every few months or more on SDN, so there are certainly a decent amount of premeds thinking about this topic. It is an issue that is close to me, and I am more than happy to help out other people who may have questions about it that they may not want to post publicly.
 
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@Rob Biomed,

Do you have an update about your application process? I am interesting in your status since you mention about writing about atheism in your personal statement and the different advices you received in this thread. I do think atheism is a very important part of why we decided to follow this path. I am pretty sure ~70% (maybe!!!) of med school candidates mention their christians beliefs in their application, why should you not write about your convictions? Good luck in everything!!!
 
Rob Biomed said:
I recognize that discussions of faith and/or atheism can sometimes be a taboo subject.

As a formerly religious person that is now an atheist, my transition to atheism has played a large role in my decision to pursue science and medicine. I suppose that in losing the father figure that is God and all notions of an afterlife, I came to place a higher value on human life and thus health. I do not believe that there is some great omnipotent deity that is looking over us and taking care of us. Rather, I believe that only through science and medicine we can alleviate human suffering.

Now the fact that science and medicine alleviate human suffering is rather obvious and undisputed. That is in no way the purpose or main topic of this post. What I am trying to get at is the fact that becoming an atheist has influenced my decision to become a part of the scientific and medical community. I am working on my secondary applications, and many schools aim to get a sense of where my interest in medicine comes from. They want to see what motivates me to pursue this difficult career. To be completely honest, my atheism is a significant source of my altruism and desire to practice medicine.

Would it be unwise for me to mention this in some way in my secondary essays? I obviously wouldn't be aiming to bash religions in doing so, but I recognize that certain religious people (that may potentially be part of admissions committees) might be consciously or subconsciously offended or judgmental. Would I be shooting myself in the foot, or enhancing my application by being honest?

Just curious to hear some other perspectives on this.
Cheers 🙂
Click to expand...
I actually talked to Hemant Mehta ("The Friendly Atheist" blogger) himself about this. He actually was in medical school but then decided to become a teacher. He was emphatic about leaving it out. It's just not seen as acceptable right now, unfortunately.
 
There's a time to be upfront and candid about every detail of your life, and that's not medical school admissions. While I'd never advocate lying on an application, I don't think it's appropriate to bring out all your skeletons and invite controversy if it can otherwise be avoided. I'm sure you have a great perspective on atheism and medicine, but leave it for another time.
 
rangerdad said:
@Rob Biomed,

Do you have an update about your application process? I am interesting in your status since you mention about writing about atheism in your personal statement and the different advices you received in this thread. I do think atheism is a very important part of why we decided to follow this path. I am pretty sure ~70% (maybe!!!) of med school candidates mention their christians beliefs in their application, why should you not write about your convictions? Good luck in everything!!!
Click to expand...

The bolded would be shocking.
 
I saw a research regarding positive reaction towards otherwise identical resume mentioning different religion or beliefs. Atheists and mormons faired the worst with only 42% response rate from employer. I'll leave it to you guys to guess which one faired the best.
However, the are holes in the research though that the article left out. Because mentioning religion can mean nothing but an explanation of potential practicality issues so it doesn't seem like just a random fact, while it seems rather imprudent to mention if someone is an atheism because it isn't related to the matter at hand.
In your case, since it is related to the issue at hand, so I don't know how much you'll be judged.
 
There are those for whom spirituality is a strong influence on their decision to practice medicine. I see no reason why any particular belief system has an advantage or disadvantage (including secular humanism) over another except in mission-based schools.

It comes up in a modest number of applications in my experience, usually in EC's.
 
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It all depends under which light you place it. I think the way you approached it in this post would be acceptable, as I think you have a good story behind the switch. Be careful in saying that science and medicine are the only things that alleviate human suffering. You didn't say that in your post, but I just wanted to be clear. There are plenty of cases where faith (in something, not necessarily God) was the turning tide in someone's path to healing. So, if you said that you put your faith in science and medicine simply because they are the only things that are proven to heal, I think that could be taken negatively. Again, it's all how you word it. Best of luck in your application process!
 
Annnnnd just saw this was from August 30th, 2013. Probably completely irrelevant now. Whoops!
 
Bear Grylls said:
I've never encountered a negative experience when discussing evolutionary biology, and I'm from the Deep South. But I guess YMMV. Also, religion/faith and science should intersect. As an aspiring religious person and someone who also loves science, I would like to say that. Most Christians today that I meet believe in evolution. Catholic dogma holds theistic evolution to be probable. The whole "if you are religious, you are unintelligent" and "if you are atheist, you are intelligent" generalizations are foolish.
Click to expand...

You must be from the city because evolution is openly trashed where I'm from lol.
 
on a slightly irrelevant note, I suggest reading Grey Matter by David Levy on how a neurosurgeon incorporates prayers in to his medical practice.
 
HCHopeful said:
Annnnnd just saw this was from August 30th, 2013. Probably completely irrelevant now. Whoops!
Click to expand...
That's alright; it's relevant to plenty of people this cycle, I'm sure. Doesn't hurt to bump it.
 
rangerdad said:
@Rob Biomed,

Do you have an update about your application process? I am interesting in your status since you mention about writing about atheism in your personal statement and the different advices you received in this thread. I do think atheism is a very important part of why we decided to follow this path. I am pretty sure ~70% (maybe!!!) of med school candidates mention their christians beliefs in their application, why should you not write about your convictions? Good luck in everything!!!
Click to expand...

His status is "Medical Student" so i'm assuming he got accepted. Wonder if he decided to mention his beliefs...
 
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