Minorities and dentistry

[koskesh]

I was wondering why minorities are not getting into dental school like others. I found this link.

http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/36_dentistry.html

I am from pakistan i guess considered Middle Eastern, but some concider me white. I even called BU and they say it doesn't make a difference if your white or Middle Easter, you count as white. This is completely unacceptable, I am not treated like whites, and have even been discriminated against before, which is quite common for those of you who don't think it happens. Also I share many disadvantage backgrounds with blacks and hispanics.

I knew this one teacher who didn't seem like he liked me too much, at the end of the semester I find that I got a C in his class, but I had all A's on the tests. Mistake? perhaps, I didn't think so.
I went and told him and he told me to bring in my tests which I did and he changed my grade. How do you go to a C from having almost all A's? This is just an example, not time to share all of them.

So there are two schools for blacks and I guess hispanics. what about all the other people in the world? Is this an unfair system? Some people are still disadvantage if they ar from another country, but our school system only thinks that blacks and hispanics are the only minorites, while there are other people who live with the same exact disadvantages.

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[Mo007]

I was wondering why minorities are not getting into dental school like others. I found this link.

http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/36_dentistry.html

I am from pakistan i guess considered Middle Eastern, but some concider me white. I even called BU and they say it doesn't make a difference if your white or Middle Easter, you count as white. This is completely unacceptable, I am not treated like whites, and have even been discriminated against before, which is quite common for those of you who don't think it happens. Also I share many disadvantage backgrounds with blacks and hispanics.

I knew this one teacher who didn't seem like he liked me too much, at the end of the semester I find that I got a C in his class, but I had all A's on the tests. Mistake? perhaps, I didn't think so.
I went and told him and he told me to bring in my tests which I did and he changed my grade. How do you go to a C from having almost all A's? This is just an example, not time to share all of them.

So there are two schools for blacks and I guess hispanics. what about all the other people in the world? Is this an unfair system? Some people are still disadvantage if they ar from another country, but our school system only thinks that blacks and hispanics are the only minorites, while there are other people who live with the same exact disadvantages.

The definition of minority in the US - currently - is not only based on just by race, as you assume, but by underrepresented groups ignored by the government. These could be whites, blacks, hispanics, pakistanis, you name it...

Pakistanis are asians, just like Indians, Chinese, etc. This group are generally fairly-represented in the medical field, compared to blacks and hispanics. This doesn't mean that they are not minorities, some could well be (based on the definition of underrepresented minorities), but there aren't as many as blacks and hispanics.

I am a minority (black), and I didn't consider using my minority status as an approach to get into dental school.... leave that stuff for the schools to decide. Schools are aware of this issue.

Good Luck

 

[koskesh]

Yes what you are saying is true, my best friend is Iranian and he lives in a jewish comunity, and really should not be considered in the minority. But there is still the fact that even if you are at a disadvantage, there is not way for the school to know, unless they look at your personal statement. They merely look at stats and not the entire application, for both medical and dental schools.

 

[psiyung]

, Pakistan (or Iran) will not

good call

 

[DREDAY]

I can't believe people that have a minority race but are financially well still try to pull the race card.

 

[psiyung]

I can't believe people that have a minority race but are financially well still try to pull the race card.

As a minority from Iran myself, I can only imagine that this pak has gone off the deep end and is trying to flex his cyber muscles in an attempt to show people how racist and "unfair" the U.S. dental system can be. Cry me a friggin river, man. I'd like to see your ass go to Canada and see if they accept you over there. People whining and bitching when there is so many ways to be successful in this country makes me sick 👎

 

[Bickle]

I can't believe people that have a minority race but are financially well still try to pull the race card.

I hate to break it to you but not EVERY asian/middle easterner/jew is well set financially. How do you know this guy has money, just because he said hes pakistani?? Get real. And what about affluent blacks? Do they get special treatment too? They're skin color is right, but they're pocket book isnt (according to affirmative action).
Or do we just give "the boyz in tha hood" special treatment??

Issues.

 

[Bickle]

As a minority from Iran myself, I can only imagine that this pak has gone off the deep end and is trying to flex his cyber muscles in an attempt to show people how racist and "unfair" the U.S. dental system can be. Cry me a friggin river, man. I'd like to see your ass go to Canada and see if they accept you over there. People whining and bitching when there is so many ways to be successful in this country makes me sick 👎

Gavin/ any SDN mod

When are we going to have a way of booting these reincarnating trolls from ever coming back? This freak must have access to over 100 IP addresses judging by the number of times hes' come back.

Get lost sonny boy!!

hehe

 

[psiyung]

Gavin/ any SDN mod

When are we going to have a way of booting these reincarnating trolls from ever coming back? This freak must have access to over 100 IP addresses judging by the number of times hes' come back.

Get lost sonny boy!!

hehe

😕

 

[Mo007]

Or do we just give "the boyz in tha hood" special treatment??

Try saying that to someone who attends Howard or Meharry...

Again, everyone seems to misunderstood the point here, that this day and age... majority of the minorities will be blacks and hispanics in any medical field. This is just a way to create and increase diversity of professionals through society. If dental schools don't recruit minorities, how will communities with over 80% blacks/hispanics be served with a professional from their group? Research showed minority patients are more encouraged to visit, a Dentist in this case, from their background.

I agree with the fact that there are very few minority Dentists are out there, and schools have realized to do something about this, in order to promote the profession to all society.

 

[BONAFIED]

I agree with Precarious Yups. If some of the whiners reallocated the energy spent trying to exploit their numerous "disadvantages" and used it for making themselves a more qualified applicant they would be a lot happier.

A grading mistake is inconclusive evidence to label a professor a racist. Must be nice to have that card to pull, when stuff like that happens to me I have to attribute it to bad luck.

We all have our cross to bear in life. 🙂 I was denied scholarship opportunities in my college due to the financial status of my family. Even though I have been financially independent from my parents since the age of 19. So I got to watch a bunch of lazy-asses from middle and lower class families coast through college while I was hustling. Oh the humanity! Breaks in life are tough aren't they? The point is that you're responsible for your own success or failure. This me-first entitlement attitude is pathetic. If I want to go to school, why should I expect anyone else to pay for it? If someone wants a spot in d-school let them earn it.

 

[Bickle]

Try saying that to someone who attends Howard or Meharry...

Again, everyone seems to misunderstood the point here, that this day and age... majority of the minorities will be blacks and hispanics in any medical field. This is just a way to create and increase diversity of professionals through society. If dental schools don't recruit minorities, how will communities with over 80% blacks/hispanics be served with a professional from their group? Research showed minority patients are more encouraged to visit, a Dentist in this case, from their background.

I agree with the fact that there are very few minority Dentists are out there, and schools have realized to do something about this, in order to promote the profession to all society.

EXACTLY!!!!

Thank you.. this has nothing to do with money and poverty, and EVERYTHING to do with diversity. Blacks and hispanics arent well represented, so lets get more of them in dental school, and then they'll serve underserved minority communities.

But that doesnt always work. Whats stopping a graduate from Howard from setting up a practice in white america? Why would he want to do that you say? How about less hassels with patient billing, more affluent lifestyle, more educated patients coming into the practice.

Its a flawed system, but a system that had its heart in the right place.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Good topic for discussion, but keep it professional please.

 

[dds]

Race has a lot to do with who gets accepted and who gets rejected. I'm all for diversity and integration. Afterall, we are going to be living in this world together and we future dentists should not and can't afford to have negative attitudes towards a different group of people.

I do think it's funny that people of certain ethnicities do not know what race they fall under (yes, there is a difference between race and ethnicity). For example, the Pakistani, koskesh, thought he was Middle Eastern and another person thought he was Asian.

Once last thing about race that I think you may find interesting......I know a Native American who got into a Top Tier dental school with a 15 AA/ 15 PAT on his DAT's. Now, I'm sure everyone is down for diversity, but does this upset any of you who actually busted your ass. What's more disturbing is that this Native American person is money hungry and has no motivation to excel nor does he have compassion for others. How do I know? I was his roommate in college. On top of that this guy was 1/8 Cherokee and does not know a single thing about his Native American culture other than the fact his government number gives him an advantage over other applicants. How do you guys feel about this? I'll tell you this much--I wouldn't want this guy working on my teeth!

Just because someone is a minority does not mean he/she is disadvantaged or living in poverty. Po' White trash need some lovin' too! In my personal opinion, I think affirmative action works against minorities in the sense that it exploits certain races and points out others' differences. Affirmative action is a way of alienating races. Doesn't it sound like "Separate but equal?"

I'm not racist, bitter, or deluded. That Native American guy happens to be one of my best friends (and yes we disagree a lot). I got accepted to my first choice dental school so I have no reason to be jealous either. I present this material to you guys to offer up some interesting facts and NOT to produce a pathetic cyber fight of sorts.

 

[xxdakinexx]

You should get into dental school based on merit.

 

[Al-Qahhar]

It is not easy to be from the Middle East and study in America. I know of many Qataris who had trouble shifting to this American culture. (We are at an advantage because our ways are somewhat Western, whereas some "Middle Easterners" are not.)

However, even though we do face many racial injustices in America, we should move on in spite of what bigotry we have faced. That is why I believe it is unethical to expect special help based on one's race. Once one buys into Affirmative Action, one buys into the idea that one is simply a minority and nothing more.

 

[DREDAY]

Try saying that to someone who attends Howard or Meharry...

Again, everyone seems to misunderstood the point here, that this day and age... majority of the minorities will be blacks and hispanics in any medical field. This is just a way to create and increase diversity of professionals through society. If dental schools don't recruit minorities, how will communities with over 80% blacks/hispanics be served with a professional from their group? Research showed minority patients are more encouraged to visit, a Dentist in this case, from their background.

I agree with the fact that there are very few minority Dentists are out there, and schools have realized to do something about this, in order to promote the profession to all society.

AWESOME POST MOOO I have seen that research too. As a matter of fact in California, Hispanics account for 33% of its population, yet only 4.6% of California?s 25,273 dentists are Hispanics. This shortage of Hispanic dentists elucidates the fact that 43 percent of Hispanics in California did not go to a dental check up in the same year according to the Center for Disease Control and Prevention.

 

[DREDAY]

Race has a lot to do with who gets accepted and who gets rejected. I'm all for diversity and integration. Afterall, we are going to be living in this world together and we future dentists should not and can't afford to have negative attitudes towards a different group of people.

I do think it's funny that people of certain ethnicities do not know what race they fall under (yes, there is a difference between race and ethnicity). For example, the Pakistani, koskesh, thought he was Middle Eastern and another person thought he was Asian.

Once last thing about race that I think you may find interesting......I know a Native American who got into a Top Tier dental school with a 15 AA/ 15 PAT on his DAT's. Now, I'm sure everyone is down for diversity, but does this upset any of you who actually busted your ass. What's more disturbing is that this Native American person is money hungry and has no motivation to excel nor does he have compassion for others. How do I know? I was his roommate in college. On top of that this guy was 1/8 Cherokee and does not know a single thing about his Native American culture other than the fact his government number gives him an advantage over other applicants. How do you guys feel about this? I'll tell you this much--I wouldn't want this guy working on my teeth!

Just because someone is a minority does not mean he/she is disadvantaged or living in poverty. Po' White trash need some lovin' too! In my personal opinion, I think affirmative action works against minorities in the sense that it exploits certain races and points out others' differences. Affirmative action is a way of alienating races. Doesn't it sound like "Separate but equal?"

I'm not racist, bitter, or deluded. That Native American guy happens to be one of my best friends (and yes we disagree a lot). I got accepted to my first choice dental school so I have no reason to be jealous either. I present this material to you guys to offer up some interesting facts and NOT to produce a pathetic cyber fight of sorts.

Good point, you have named 1 example where someone beat the system. But you have named an extreme case which you cannot use as a case to stop all sorts of affirmative action. You have commited a falacy of arguement, #31 misleading vividness. You cannot say that because your friend has done this every minority who gets into dental school does the same thing.

 

[Bickle]

Not sure what your saying, but my statement is the basis for giving special treatment to minorities.....to increase diversity.....to better serve all sectors of the population. I'm not trying to make a racist statement (in fact I dont think I have).

This is a racist statement. I think you should go work in those neighborhoods. If I was an immigrant from South America or from Africa, why would I think I would be any less than any other person? In fact, I would think that I'd carry myself with a higher degree of esteem, considering all of this "multicultural" talk. I sure as hell wouldn't want to become a dentist to look forward in working in the lavishly impoverished neighborhoods that you(it's your own freagin' country) care about!!
On the other hand, if I was from that neighborhood (ala boyz in the hood), I'd want change... I'd want reform. There would be no way in hell I would keep things the way they are because I tasted life, I know what hardships exist.
If you doubt my passion, check out this article:
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,11060115%5E1702,00.html
a 14 year old got shot 19 times, how many times do you need to get shot to die? 19 times y'all, things are wicked out there, please, let's not ignore... let's not forget... let us remember.

 

[denzel]

I feel it all boils done to money! The class in power and wealth nevers wants other class or group to threaten their status. Its the case all over the world. So the best thing to do is be successful and make lots of money. Move to this country and make more money than the citizens!

 

[Mo007]

Mo007 sorry about the last post. I thought you quoted my use of boyz in the hood and were making some kind of sly remark. I apologize for any offense and for my rude behavior. Also, I have read many of your posts and think you are a great contribution to this website. Best of luck to you.

That's fine dude, none taken.

The plot thickens after dental school for minorities. As they try to set-up their own office to practice, their chances are better having one in the big cities (LA, NYC, SF, etc) where a lot of minorities live. I have seen an african-american Dentist in Cleveland, who I shadowed with, all the time I was there - all her patients were blacks (all her dental hygienists were also blacks). Does this mean she just want to serve only blacks? - I never asked her, and never seen anything that she advertised for blacks only. The area her office was located was not all black neighborhood. There were probably other Dentists in the area, I got the feeling that the patients made the choice, not the Dentist. Same goes for other races too, I guess. It all depends where you want to serve in society, there are no rules on where you should practice (such as minorities practicing in rural areas will never work), but it's down to what community will better help your business and other goals in the end.

 

[BeachLuvr]

Truth be told, people tend to gravitate towards people more like themselves. Should it be like that? Maybe, maybe not...just the way it is. That's the reason why a lot of blacks... are more likely to go to a black dentist. The same reason why a black fem. is probably more likely to get her hair done by a black stylist than at a "white" salon, just a feeling like they would understand...relate...more. (Speakin' of, really need to make an appointment...) Funny the way things work...

 

[Bickle]

It's cool bro, it's just that when you wrote your post you said that dentistry should train more blacks and latinos to serve the underserved neighborhoods-- to me that is a little racist because it counteracts what you said about not all minorities living in poverty.
The point is that not all minorities come from the 'hood, in fact, the majority of them don't. With that said, it is not fair to assume that such people will enter the lackluster arena of the ghetto.
Ideally, people should return to their respective community to improve conditions found therein, or to take lessons learned from their previous environment to improve their new habitat. Didn't mean to be so passionate, but it's hard not to when the situation is so bad.

QUOTE]

Exactly why the system is flawed. There needs to be some other way to get dentists into these underserved areas. Any volunteers? 😀

 

[kenniemd]

It's heartnening that people can finally discuss sensitive topics like this without getting nasty. I totally agree with an earlier post that not because someone is black means that they are African American.

"Black" people come from Nigeria, England, Ghana, Jamaica, Kenya and almost 100 other countries in Africa, South America and the Carribbean. Most of the "black" people at my school, the so called underrepresented minorities are not African American. I'm a non-American "black", and I don't feel any obligation other than human kindness to treat any body.

As for the people from Pakistan and Iran, I feel your pain. My daughter is half Persian and I still don't know if she's half white or half asian. (Iran is considered an Asian country not middle eastern).

I think everyone should understand that in every single country, there are always ethnicities or religions that have been victims of prejudice. This might not change in our lifetime. I guess the only way we can right the wrongs of history as Dentists is to treat our patients equally regardless of their skin colour or ethnicity.

 

[Tzips]

I know this sounds ridiculous... it's a tough topic to debate. The fact is that schools should not be swindled. If I was born in South Africa, for example, and I'm rich, schools should not provide me special treatment for being African American.
The Native American situation is a tough one. California houses the #1 population of Native Americans in the nation. From what I hear (news, school, etc) the real Native Americans have it really tough for them and my heart pours out for them. I feel very bad for the whole economic subclass that does alot of the work of our society, the people known as the working poor. I wish that our generation can fix this mess once we're in the field... we should not be conned by people like your roomate or by the OP, but we should also make exceptional circumstances for ANY person that's living with socioeconomic hardship(s). This is a factor independent of skin color or religion, instead it based on your parent's education, their careers, and your total family earnings-- factors that may compromise your ability to focus on education.

i agree completely. and though economic hardship can be presented in one's app, i think the best thing to do would be to get rid of that ridiculous race Q on some secondaries (what would they do if we all checked "other"? i kinda feel like an 'other' right now) and based the entire thing on socioecnomic status, which imho is a much more accurate judge of the hardships one has gone through than race alone. and while it is true than some groups face discrimination based on race alone, a factor that is not included in socioeconomic status, well, get used to it. people are bigoted, that's just the way the world is; some one's potential patients will probably do the same thing. however, because dental school is a great equalizer in terms of one's s-e standing (i.e., most graduated dentists are already established on the high end of the s-e spectrum, simply because of their professeion, regradless of their entering postion) i think s-e standing is one factor than can and should be taken into account.

and that's my $0.02 (well, more like my $0.10)'s worth.

 

[omaralt]

hey guys, great discussion,
i gotta question though. if ur from egypt, or for that matter from any of the north african countries, are you considered a minority?? even though u dont have black skin color, your from africa.. ha was just wondering about that. thanks

omar

 

[kenniemd]

Hi Omar,
If you're from north Africa, u'r considered as white as someone from finland 🙄

 

[favabean]

I'd like to see your ass go to Canada and see if they accept you over there.

As a Canadian, I think I need to address this comment. What exactly are you implying here? That a minority would experience more racism in Canada than the US? I am from Toronto, Canada's largest and most multicultural city, where there is a wonderful blend of every race. Walking down the street or riding the subway, I am surrounded by so many cultures. I am not saying that Canada is perfect; minorities experience racism from the ignorant. I will, however, defend Canada by saying that we pride ourselves on diversity and a comment like yours is untrue. During university, I would have to say that the majority of my science classes were comprised of minorities, especially middle eastern, east asian and asian. Carefull what you you assume about another country....I can only imagine what you assume about other cultures!