mksap enough for internal medicine shelf?

[Reborn07]

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this is all i plan to do.

 

[Medstudentquest]

this is all i plan to do.

Oh I hope not! I have been studying lots and lots. I am studying Step up to medicine, making notes of all the chapters and memorizing them, doing First Aid just in case something's missed, reading Case files and Symptom to diagnosis in addition to MKSAP. Maybe I'm over doing it?

 

[MeowMix]

Reborn, this would not have worked for me with my shelf exam. MKSAP are too modern-evidence-based and too little on basic differential, diagnosis, treatment.

MSQ, you are either a truly diligent student without a life, or a complete liar. I hope it's the latter.

 

[QuinnB]

I did MKSAP (both 2 and 3) with a few questions from pretest. I read diligently on each of my patients (from uptodate) and had some great seniors. I did not read a text or review - maybe a chapter here and there, but once again, this was patient related. I think if you did well on step I and you have a good idea of what is going on with your patients you could maybe pull it of. I ended up with an 83 raw.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Reborn, this would not have worked for me with my shelf exam. MKSAP are too modern-evidence-based and too little on basic differential, diagnosis, treatment.

MSQ, you are either a truly diligent student without a life, or a complete liar. I hope it's the latter.

🙁 No, I am just very scared of failing this shelf exam. I am a gunner, true, but I am very afraid of failing this exam like I said. I also have a little bit of a LD and that's the only way I can really compensate for it.

 

[Medstudentquest]

I did MKSAP (both 2 and 3) with a few questions from pretest. I read diligently on each of my patients (from uptodate) and had some great seniors. I did not read a text or review - maybe a chapter here and there, but once again, this was patient related. I think if you did well on step I and you have a good idea of what is going on with your patients you could maybe pull it of. I ended up with an 83 raw.

I hear this shelf is terribly hard, long, and confusing. Some people on here talk like it's nothing. I'm confused. Is it mostly a management type exam or do they ask diagnosis or what? Also, I hear cardio, pulm, GI and fluids/electroctrolytes make up most of the test. Is t his accurate?

 

[DebDynamite]

I did MKSAP3, somewhere between 1/2-3/4 of Case Files, and read IM in Boards & Wards. I performed well, and our school has a 2 mo IM rotation in the jr year. I have no ideas how anyone could find the time to do much more than this.

 

[QuinnB]

I hear this shelf is terribly hard, long, and confusing. Some people on here talk like it's nothing. I'm confused. Is it mostly a management type exam or do they ask diagnosis or what? Also, I hear cardio, pulm, GI and fluids/electroctrolytes make up most of the test. Is t his accurate?

You're right, I didn't mean to sound too lax about the exam, it is indeed a difficult exam (not the most difficult IMO, but hard nonetheless).

I should've mentioned that I took both psych and ob/gyn prior to IM, we have a 3 month rotation and I did well on step I (which I feel really helped me throughout all of the shelf exams third year).

There was a lot of "how to diagnose x" and "how to treat y" but the most common question type of all was the "what is the next best step." For the latter question type, I feel MKSAP is a great help. Like I said, other than MKSAP, I read in depth on each of patients while on service, including their co-morbidities and how their presentation may be related (e.g., how is AMI treatment affected by DM2, etc...) and this reading was solely in uptodate. Early on, I tried to read FA for IM but got maybe 10 pages into it. I did a few questions from Pretest and then decided to just do both MKSAPs instead.

 

[MonkeyRalph]

I used MKSAP 3, First Aid, part of Casefiles and just read up on my patients during the rotation. I just got my score back...78. Apparently, a 79 is enough to honor at my school, so I should have gotten 1 more point, but I'm still happy with my score. I don't think using MKSAP alone is enough unless you want to barely pass.

 

[Medstudentquest]

I used MKSAP 3, First Aid, part of Casefiles and just read up on my patients during the rotation. I just got my score back...78. Apparently, a 79 is enough to honor at my school, so I should have gotten 1 more point, but I'm still happy with my score. I don't think using MKSAP alone is enough unless you want to barely pass.

79 is to honor the rotation or just the shelf exam? Or if you get a 79 you get an honor regardless of what you got in your clinical?

 

[MonkeyRalph]

79 is to honor the rotation or just the shelf exam? Or if you get a 79 you get an honor regardless of what you got in your clinical?

Well, it's kinda complicated...
You get like 300 points for your clinical evals and you get 100 points for your shelf exam and then a few points for assignments and stuff. The highest 20% of students based out of the 420-ish points get an Honor for the rotation. The rest get Pass (or Fail). There's no High Pass for Medicine at my school.
In the past most people who got really good evals could go as low as ~79 on their shelf and still be in the top 20%, but it all depends on who's in your group. Since I took medicine last, there were a few gunners, so the cutoff is probably a bit higher.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Well, it's kinda complicated...
You get like 300 points for your clinical evals and you get 100 points for your shelf exam and then a few points for assignments and stuff. The highest 20% of students based out of the 420-ish points get an Honor for the rotation. The rest get Pass (or Fail). There's no High Pass for Medicine at my school.
In the past most people who got really good evals could go as low as ~79 on their shelf and still be in the top 20%, but it all depends on who's in your group. Since I took medicine last, there were a few gunners, so the cutoff is probably a bit higher.

Wow that is complicated. At my school, for all rotations, it's 2/3 for evals and 1/3 for shelf. The cut offs for the # of points you get for your shelf are already pre established so you technically know what you need to get to get your desired grade if you know your clinical grade. I think it would be so much better if grading was standarized for all schools, sort of like for the steps. It would be much easier to really compare students. Oh well.

 

[winchester1615]

I just took the medicine shelf in June. Having medicine as my last rotation of third year helped because I had been exposed to a lot of it already on family, surgery, etc. I used MKSAP for questions and First Aid. This might sound strange, but the week before the shelf I also read my pocket medicine cover to cover. It's a really good review of the major diseases and management. I got an 87 raw. At my school the pre-established honoring level was 82. (Like one of the posters above, my school calculates our grades 1/3 shelf and 2/3 clinical.) I would also agree the majority of the test is "what would be the next step" (like all the shelf exams are) and that MKSAP is extremely good prep for that.

 

[LurkNoMore]

MKSAP isn't enough, but it is great to use as part of a study plan, I did the MKSAP 3 CD (I think), blueprints, and Pre-test (went to conferences, small groups and read about my pts). I got a 90/100 raw score last year, which made me very happy.

 

[Medstudentquest]

MKSAP isn't enough, but it is great to use as part of a study plan, I did the MKSAP 3 CD (I think), blueprints, and Pre-test (went to conferences, small groups and read about my pts). I got a 90/100 raw score last year, which made me very happy.

What about Step up to medicine? Did you read that at all, and how is it in comparison to Blueprints?

 

[8o8o8o8]

MKSAP 2 & 3 + the tests in the Kaplan ck qbook are enough for honors as long as you read on your patients (ie uptodate / pocket medicine)

 

[arod]

As you can see there are a thousand different opinions on how to study for this and other shelf exams. The plan to use is the one that works for you. For those of you taking medicine now this is probably your first rotation and shelf so you may not know the best way you learn for the self. Unfortunately it's usually trial and error. Set a goal and work as easy/hard as you think you need to to achieve it. You're all smart people so you'll do fine.

Personally if anyone cares I did all of MKSAP 3, First Aid and Pretest. Started studying 6 weeks before the test. For whatever its worth got a 97. Good luck.

 

[LurkNoMore]

never used step up b/c I'm a frugal boy and only bought so much, also didn't start studying 6 weeks in advance... started maybe 3 weeks before the shelf. blueprints was a good overview of a lot of different topics without going in to a bunch of detail (some of which would be helpful), but after a long day, it isn't necessarily a bad thing that it is just a broad overview that helps you frame stuff in your head now is it 🙂.

 

[Sean2tall]

I only used MKSAP for students and didn't fail, nor am I a super IM person. I have not so far been able to affect my grade much with any shelf score, lots of studying or not.

 

[SkylineMD]

sorry to bring up the topic of medicine shelf again but this is my first shelf of 3rd year and not quite sure what to do at this point. With my exam on friday, I have the option of doing another pass at MKSAP or doing another pass at Case files. Which would be a better use of my time? I know people swear by MKSAP and my first pass is something that I do where some stuff sticks but not everything. so mksap or casefiles for the 2nd pass?

 

[Anon99]

I did Step Up to Medicine (the whole thing - womp womp) and did extremely well on shelf. It was probably overkill. I don't know about MKSAP for IM shelf but I will say it was perfect for neuro shelf.

 

[nitcomp]

I did Step Up to Medicine (the whole thing - womp womp) and did extremely well on shelf. It was probably overkill. I don't know about MKSAP for IM shelf but I will say it was perfect for neuro shelf.

Did you take it recently?
I'm taking it in a few weeks and was wondering whether SU2M will be enough! Thanks

(maybe UWorld too)

 

[Anon99]

Did you take it recently?
I'm taking it in a few weeks and was wondering whether SU2M will be enough! Thanks

(maybe UWorld too)

I took it a year or so ago? Also did most of UWorld, you just reminded me. IM was the first of my big 3 clerkships and I think I did 96%ile on shelf with just those two.

 

[Anon99]

Also I am sorry to have accidentally resurrected this historical thread.

 

[nitcomp]

Thanks for replying. I do appreciate it -- makes me think that I should avoid this MKSAP resource (ontop of SU2M and uworld)

 

[mymembernames]

Anyone have an Amazon link to the MKSAP question book for IM third year?

 

[DareGreatly]

I just did UWorld and watched OME videos. Got a 84 raw. I think Step Up to Medicine a good supplement.