MS I/II grades worthless...

[Meritina]

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Okay,
I kicked myself in the butt very hard to do well in the first 2 years and am pretty burned out in the 3rd yr, content with the 'just try to pass track'. All I hear is how the first 2 years don't mean much when applying to residency and it's the 3rd year that counts.

well i learned lots in the first 2 years, but does that hard work translate into anything when it comes to applying to residency... 😕

 

[BassDominator]

Yes, hard work and a good fund of knowledge will take you far on the wards.

 

[Mirror Form]

your hard during the first two years will translate into higher step 1 scores which are much more important then all of your grades during the first two years put together UNLESS you MS I/II grades are good enough to get you into AOA. Don't slack during the third year, your medicine and surgery grades put together are probably as important as your step 1's.

 

[avendesora]

Remember that year 1&2 is basically advanced college, while year 3&4 are more like what you will be doing as a resident and in practice. Preclinicals affect you class rank and Step I, and maybe AOA. Program directors like to see that you will be a good clinician, though, not just a good test taker. Think about how you look to a PD if you have honors across the board in preclinicals, and then straight passes in 3rd year. To me, that suggests a difficulty moving the knowledge into practice. Not to say that that is you, but you see how it could look.

Point is, don't crap out now. You have all of 4th year to be lazy again.

 

[beyond all hope]

All of those 'useless facts' you crammed in during MS I/II will come back again, and you'll be glad you studied hard the first time. You have your whole career to practice clinical skills, but if you don't learn the basic sciences the first time you probably never will.

Just keep going until the 2nd half of 4th year, then you can slack like crazy.

 

[SolidGold]

The way I look at is that doing well in MI will make things easier to understand during MII, and doing well during MII means you will know your pharmacology and pathology, etc. which you need to have a good grasp of during MIII and MIV to know what the heck you are doing certain things for and for when you get pimped by residents and attendings. It's like a snowball effect, and if you don't do well in one stage, it's more likely to show up in the next. This is irrespective of residencies and class rank and AOA, its just part of becoming a good doctor.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

well i learned lots in the first 2 years, but does that hard work translate into anything when it comes to applying to residency... 😕

No. Sorry

 

[jpii]

well i learned lots in the first 2 years, but does that hard work translate into anything when it comes to applying to residency... 😕

step I is more improtant

 

[SolidGold]

step I is more improtant

I agree that step I is more important but doesn't doing well during the first two years help you do well on step I? I'm not saying you need straight A's, but doing enough to just barely pass all your classes is going to make it tough to do well on step I unless you are a super crammer of information.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I agree that step I is more important but doesn't doing well during the first two years help you do well on step I? I'm not saying you need straight A's, but doing enough to just barely pass all your classes is going to make it tough to do well on step I unless you are a super crammer of information.

Agreed. Working hard always pays off in the end. But for someone to argue that MSI and II GRADES actually matter to most residencies is either 1) ill-informed, 2) dangerous, or 3) mean.

 

[Fermi]

I agree that step I is more important but doesn't doing well during the first two years help you do well on step I? I'm not saying you need straight A's, but doing enough to just barely pass all your classes is going to make it tough to do well on step I unless you are a super crammer of information.

I think the distinction being made here is that you should study hard so you can do well both in classes and on step 1, but you should think twice about putting in the extra three hours a day just to get three more points on every exam. It may not even be noticed when you apply to residency, and it may just burn you out.

 

[Goober]

Agreed. Working hard always pays off in the end. But for someone to argue that MSI and II GRADES actually matter to most residencies is either 1) ill-informed, 2) dangerous, or 3) mean.

Well actually they do matter because year 1 and 2 grades determine class rank to a much larger extent than year 3 alone. Class rank and Step 1 scores are 2 of the most important factors in residency selection. Yes it is important to do well in year 3, but if you just skate by with all passes the first 2 years your class rank is going to be in the middle at best even with a stellar 3rd year. Depending on the school, it also may not be that easy to get honors your 3rd year.

 

[DrMom]

I look at the purpose of MS1 & 2 as reducing how much of a ***** I am when I go out on clinical rotations.

 

[Seaglass]

Class rank and Step 1 scores are 2 of the most important factors in residency selection.

Class rank is, quite frankly, worthless. It only matters if it gets you AOA. IMHO the most important factors are: Step 1 scores (NOT Step 2), and LOR's, and rotating at a program you would like to attend.

C

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Well actually they do matter because year 1 and 2 grades determine class rank to a much larger extent than year 3 alone. Class rank and Step 1 scores are 2 of the most important factors in residency selection. Yes it is important to do well in year 3, but if you just skate by with all passes the first 2 years your class rank is going to be in the middle at best even with a stellar 3rd year. Depending on the school, it also may not be that easy to get honors your 3rd year.

Unfortunately you chose to go to a school that tallies (and apparently reports to residencies) your class rank. Sucks to be you.

My advice is the same, work hard, play hard, don't stress about your grades, study hard for Step I, and things will work out exactly like they should.

 

[Mirror Form]

Unfortunately you chose to go to a school that tallies (and apparently reports to residencies) your class rank. Sucks to be you.

I think the majority of schools report your class rank in some way, shape, or form. Even if some don't directly report it, won't they still include some little sentence on your dean's letter correlating to your rank?

 

[Fermi]

My school doesn't rank students, but they do have a sentence at the end of the dean's letter (which I think most schools have to do) which gives their ultimate "recommendation" for residency. Thus, "This candidate is a👎" outstanding, excellent and potentially outstanding, excellent, very good, good, and acceptable; or something like that anyway.

I think my school has even done away with these "class rank code words" like outstanding vs. excellent vs. good. I'm in favor of this because the students who are in AOA are by definition in the top 15-20% by class rank, and they will be helped by that status, while those not at the top will not necessarily be hurt by having a lower class rank shown in their letter. They don't report year 1-2 grades either, aside from indicating whether you got honors, which again will reward those in the top 10% in preclinical classes but won't hurt those toward the bottom.

 

[Mirror Form]

My school doesn't rank students, but they do have a sentence at the end of the dean's letter (which I think most schools have to do) which gives their ultimate "recommendation" for residency. Thus, "This candidate is a👎" outstanding, excellent and potentially outstanding, excellent, very good, good, and acceptable; or something like that anyway.

Yep, this is the same way my school operates. By far, the most important factor of whether you get: "outstanding, excellent, very good, good, and acceptable; or something" is your class rank. Then in the dean's letter, they provide a little chart stating: people in top 10% got outstanding, top 25% got excellent, top 50% got very good, etc.

So, they do effectively report class rank and it's considered important by many residencies. Maybe other schools are different, but I've heard this technique is relatively common. Therefore, don't let anyone from a pass/fail school tell you that you don't have to worry about class rank without first checking how that school's dean letter's are written.