MS4 questions about Neurosurg

[wolfvgang22]

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I'm not going into Neurosurg myself, I'm going into a primary care field in this 2009 Match. However, a friend of mine caught the Neurosurg bug during his surgery core and there are a couple of questions that I couldn't answer, can you help?

Background: IMG, US citizen, with passing sub 200 step 1 score, first try. Did very well in surgery core rotation that included a NS month. Other clinical grades also good, top third of class.
He is very good fit for surgery and passionate, fits right in to the OR, and he's getting LoRs from NS attendings. He's going to try to rock the step 2 to make up for step 1, taking it in the coming days.

Problem: As an IMG he's has had difficulty getting any elective NS rotations. Are there any IMG friendly places to do an elective NS rotation? Secondly, what places in NS are known for taking IMGs? I know its probably a tough question.

Finally, and this is my question, not his: Is it possible to match into General Surgery, and then Match into PGY-2 in NS? Or is there a fellowship path to NS from General Surg?

I know time is very short with the Match process beginning this fall, any help is appreciated.

 

[JeffLebowski]

I'm not going into Neurosurg myself, I'm going into a primary care field in this 2009 Match. However, a friend of mine caught the Neurosurg bug during his surgery core and there are a couple of questions that I couldn't answer, can you help?

Background: IMG, US citizen, with passing sub 200 step 1 score, first try. Did very well in surgery core rotation that included a NS month. Other clinical grades also good, top third of class.
He is very good fit for surgery and passionate, fits right in to the OR, and he's getting LoRs from NS attendings. He's going to try to rock the step 2 to make up for step 1, taking it in the coming days.

Problem: As an IMG he's has had difficulty getting any elective NS rotations. Are there any IMG friendly places to do an elective NS rotation? Secondly, what places in NS are known for taking IMGs? I know its probably a tough question.

Finally, and this is my question, not his: Is it possible to match into General Surgery, and then Match into PGY-2 in NS? Or is there a fellowship path to NS from General Surg?

I know time is very short with the Match process beginning this fall, any help is appreciated.

I'm no expert, but since no one else has responded:

I don't know that you can call a place "known for taking IMGs", IMG matches happen every year, but I don't know that there are enough spots & IMGs matching to note a trend toward any particular program, and it's rare in general. My advice is to look at places that have matched IMGs in the past, but as stated above it doesn't necessarily mean they have an inclination to take IMGs, but it does mean they have ranked & matched at least 1 IMG in the past. NSG match lists are available on SDN on the sticky at the top.

Unfortunately, based on every testimony & statistic I've ever read or heard, matching as an IMG into neurosurgery with a sub-200 Step 1 is nearly impossible, if not impossible. Also try reading up on http://www.uncleharvey.com - there you can find discussion on IMG's matching (though again I warn you they refer to how rare and phenomenal the foreign grad has to be to match).

Good source for match statistics:
http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2007.pdf

 

[wolfvgang22]

Thanks for your response.

Anyone else have any ideas?

How about switching to NS from general surg?

 

[sethnavajo]

There is no fellowship year required to transfer from General Surgery to Neurosurgery. Some students who don't match in neurosurgery after MS-4 try to get a pgy-1 surgery position and then try again the next year to match for pgy-1 neurosurgery positions or apply for pgy-2 vacancies. However, even if your friend is an amazing pgy-1 general surgery intern, it is very unlikely to impossible that he'll get a position in a pgy-2 neurosurgery spot. The programs with pgy-2 vacancies look at the same things as pgy-1 vacancies--test scores, prestige of medical school, and grades. With a sub-200 step 1 score, your friend cannot just break 200 or even 220 to have a chance at a pgy-2 neurosurgery spot next year. He would probably have to completely dominate with a 235-240+ to get any attention at all.

Additionally, if your friend has major neurosurgery experience, with multiple published papers in neuroscience/neurosurgery and the like, he may stand out as unique.

Finally, your friend needs major support from neurosurgeons in the field who have worked with him, not just letters. They need to make phone calls before interviews, post-interviews (if he gets any), and before the match.