MSTP MD/PhD vs non-MSTP MD/PhD

[canadian]

hello all,

I know the funding in MSTP comes from NIH and stuff, but does it really matter whether you go to a MSTP or non-MSTP program, as long as you are fully funded?

Does the MSTP label carry more prestige?

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[CaNEM]

MSTP funding is competitive, so the fact that an MD/PhD program receives this funding from the NIH does reflect that the program must be strong. All of the MD/PhD programs at "top" schools are MSTP funded. If a school does not receive MSTP funding, it can mean a number of things:

- It has applied for MSTP funding, but due to some weakness in the program, it has not received it.
- It has applied for funding, but the program is relatively new and hasn't had the chance to prove itself yet, so it did not receive funding.
- For whatever reason, it has never applied for MSTP funding.

Obviously, there are some very good programs that don't receive NIH funding. However, notice that there are a few non-MSTP MD/PhD programs in the country that are not fully funded (e.g. Drexel). The other concern I would have is the guarantee of funding. MSTP programs guarantee funding contingent upon "good academic standing" in the program. Other MD/PhD programs guarentee funding based on "good academic standing AND the continued availability of funds." Many would prefer not to take that risk.

 

[Habari]

canadian,
its not really a prestige issue, and these days, most non-mstp md/phds do have secure sources of funding.

mstp funded programs come with a stamp of approval from the nih, which indicates that the graduates are succesful, in a timely manner, and nuances of the program meet what is currently thought of as an optimal training environment. the mdphd programs are designed and run by the instution themselves, and have not garnered the support of the nih due to how they are administered, or their outcomes. it is possible for non-mstp programs to get mstp status, and for mstp programs to lose their status if they are not up to par during the regular site reviews.

bottom line: mstp programs give you a well-integrated program and secure source of funding, this is not gurenteed with non-mstp programs.

 

[Neuronix]

Originally posted by CaNEM
All of the MD/PhD programs at "top" schools are MSTP funded.

With the exception of Mayo, and if you consider UMaryland, Jeff, and some other top-50s "top" schools. In any case, I agree with what everyone else said. The NIH really scrutinizes MSTPs and so for a school to have the NIH stamp of approval is something that you want if you can help it. The NIH in this regard is very pro-student, and a big part of the site review is student happiness, graduation time, etc...

What will matter when you apply to residencies is the prestige of the medical school in general, the quality of your research, your board scores, and how big name your PI is. It seems that the MSTP status will not be looked at by residency directors per se, but most of the big name medical schools and big name PIs are or are at MSTP granted schools.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by Habari
its not really a prestige issue, and these days, most non-mstp md/phds do have secure sources of funding.

So the main issue still appears to be full-funding as far as I can see. I guess the issue of prestige doesn't cross my mind because I plan to do my dissertation research at NIH with full NIH funding. I guess I'm thinking where I do my research is going to carry much more weight and get me farther in research circles than which school awards the PhD.

 

[Habari]

With the exception of Mayo, and if you consider UMaryland, Jeff, and some other top-50s "top" schools. In any case, I agree with what everyone else said.

mayo has mstp funding.

 

[drdr2010]

ok, i see we got a whole new thread here instead of myself and pathdr taking over the clinical experience thread🙂

i think there are some other differences between MSTP and non-MSTP programs besides the funding. although, i do not consider prestige to be one of those differences, or even an issue, because as pathdr has brought up before, no one ever cares or mentions it once the degrees are completed.
1.) Funding: my program does not gaurantee funding during your graduate school only years, although there is a full tuition waiver for both med school and graduate school. we are gauranteed a minimum level of funding (i think about $7000) during our medical school years if our other fellowships will not cover it. however, everyone in our program who is an MD/PhD (not MD/JD or MD/MBA) is fully funded as of right now.
2.) Size of program: non-MSTPs tend to be larger since funding comes from other sources...my program accepted nearly 30 students last year, as compared to MSTPs which i think normally accept less than 10 (not sure though...) We have more than 175 total students in the program at this time.
3.) Flexibility: my program allows you to pursue a PhD in any subject area you chose, whereas MSTPs are usually limited to the basic sciences (biochem, biology, physiology, etc). we have students pursuing PhDs in latin studies, romance languages, ed psych, nutrition, english, any social science/humanities, as well as the major sciences.
4.) Order: we have to enter graduate school first. the majority of students decompress the M1 year over their 4/5 years of graduate school and then once the PhD is complete, do M2/3/4, although this is not set in stone.

I don't know whether most people see these differences as advantages or disadvantages.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by drdr2010
3.) Flexibility: my program allows you to pursue a PhD in any subject area you chose, whereas MSTPs are usually limited to the basic sciences (biochem, biology, physiology, etc). we have students pursuing PhDs in latin studies, romance languages, ed psych, nutrition, english, any social science/humanities, as well as the major sciences.
4.) Order: we have to enter graduate school first. the majority of students decompress the M1 year over their 4/5 years of graduate school and then once the PhD is complete, do M2/3/4, although this is not set in stone.

I don't know whether most people see these differences as advantages or disadvantages.

Thanks for the info because I never thought about it in these ways!!!! I certianly need flexibility as you outlined in #4 but now that my personal life is taking a drastic positive change, I'm going to have to consider schools I had pretty much decided NOT to apply to.

Now my question is can you do an MD/PhD at a school that also has an MSTP MD/PhD program ???

 

[nothingman]

...looking at the username of this thread's originator:

US non-citizens/non-permanent residents are ineligible for MSTP funding, period (NIH regulation). However, a good many MSTP-funded programs will accept such applicants WITH funding, supplied by other private sources available to the program, but on the same terms (to my knowledge) and with the same amount as money as MSTP scholarship recipients.

My point is that a lot of programs that classify themselves as MSTP-funded do provide funds that are non-NIH derived (as is in my case). To my knowledge, at least at my program, there is no difference whatsoever among these sources once one is enrolled in the program (prestige, amount, or otherwise).

So, there's a bit of a gray area to this, too...