MSW program questions

[TheZep]

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I've recently been accepted into two Psy D programs however am now considering alternatives to this degree due to financial reasons. I am considering the MSW and becoming an LCSW, however I am concerned I will be sacrificing a better training and educational track by not taking the Psy D.

Basically, the Masters fits better because I want to start a family relatively early in life (I'm 22 now and about to graduate with a bachelors in Psychology), I'm not too interested in research, and for now I mainly want to counsel people.

My concerns are that I will not enjoy the course work for the two years that it would take to obtain this degree. I love the brain and am interested in learning about all of the disorders and just the overall functioning of the brain (not from a neuroscience standpoint). My questions is, is the coursework challenging in the MSW, do you get a breadth of knowledge on actual psychology disorders? What is the training like?

Thanks!

 

[EmpathyWarrior]

I suspect no two MSW pograms are exactly alike. Some may have more of a clinical focus than others (ie. macro vs micro). Understand too that a lot of your focus professionally will be developed in your internships. What MSW programs are you considering? Have you looked into their concentrations through the ACSWE?

 

[Goobernut]

I suspect no two MSW pograms are exactly alike. Some may have more of a clinical focus than others (ie. macro vs micro). Understand too that a lot of your focus professionally will be developed in your internships. What MSW programs are you considering? Have you looked into their concentrations through the ACSWE?

I second this -- no two schools are probably going to be alike. In the MSW though you have certain core classes. The program I'm going to attend offers psychopathology classes.

TheZep, could you please explain in further detail, "just the overall functioning of the brain (not from a neuroscience standpoint)." Do you mean spiritual sense? Or, philosophy? Because the brain is a big ole bundle of neurons, so how else are you going to learn how it works? hahaha, I'm just stuck on that, so I need help understanding exactly what other area you meant.

To really talk about your original question though -- I'm not sure myself. I originally wanted to go PhD or PsyD because I was afraid that the masters wouldn't be difficult or interesting. A lot of regulars who post on this board seem to flip flop on this issue -- they immediately recommend going for the master's, and then in another thread will make fun of a master's lack of ability to perform "true counseling." There are a lot of threads on this subject, try searching for "PsyD vs MSW vs MFT" or any variation thereof. I found a really good thread the other day and perhaps it will help you with your decision making.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=541116 I think it is very fair and discusses the issue very well 🙂

 

[TheZep]

Thank you so much for your responses! I have looked into the CSWE and am applying to Florida State University and Florida Atlantic University. Both have clinical tracks and those seem more what I want to do. I just think I'm going to be uninterested in the classes, but it will be worth it if I get to do what I've wanted to do so long which is therapy.

When I say the overall functioning of the brain, I guess I mean how disorders come about, the causes, symptoms, treatments, and such which obviously involves some neuroscience. These types of things I feel wouldn't be covered in the MSW, as I was told from a student and an LCSW that the degree doesn't help you, the field work does.

 

[Goobernut]

The MSW program I was accepted into has several elective classes on psychopathology and the DSM. They have classes specifically related to geriatric issues as well as child psychopathology. I really think it will just differ from program to program.

I understand about being afraid your classes won't be interesting or challenging. I looked at UCF's MSW program, they have a very clinical focus.

I'm going to say something extremely cynical, but, I hope you understand where I'm coming from. Any educational program built on a for-profit model -- and charges more for the program than most students can hope to make in a year -- does not imply to me that your enlightenment will be their priority. They will attempt to make sure their program is successful so they can draw in more students, thus more money, but it is not your success they are working towards. If you can get into a PsyD program that does not take advantage of your desire to learn by charging multiples of what other doctoral programs charge, then it works for you! If not, then they are taking advantage of you. In short, I am in love with the theory of the PsyD model, so I totally understand how you feel! However, I am also skeptical of any model that charges such an exorbitant price!

Also, I forgot, did you mention why you ruled out a masters in counseling? In Florida LMHCs do really well. Very respectable licensure here.

P.S. if you are in FL, were you thinking of FIT for your PsyD? I know several admits this year and one of my profs graduated from there. PM me if you want more info that I am uncomfortable sharing publicly ha! Oh or if you are south and were looking at Nova -- search the boards here. In particular I remember T4C saying he doesn't feel as if Nova was worth the cost for new people entering the school.

 

[MBellows]

however I am concerned I will be sacrificing a better training and educational track by not taking the Psy D.

I'm just entirely not convinced that this is true. Not your concern, but the "better training and educational track" part. Were the Psy.D. programs Baylor or some other traditional university?

 

[TheZep]

I did get accepted into FIT and Nova, Goobernut. I attend FSU now and have spoken with a professor who graduated from FIT.

I ruled out the LMHC's because I spoke with an LCSW who told me that the MSW was the most respected and known degree for those that want to practice therapy, and provides you with more opportunity.

 

[Goobernut]

I have 2 friends heading up to FSU for grad school! One Phd and one school psych masters. They are extremely excited.

My fave professor has her PsyD from FIT, and one of the best members of our research team got accepted to FIT's psyd program. I have decent personal experience with graduates from there. My only reservation is the cost, it's a private school! The cost for FIT's PsyD is $120,000. I don't personally know anyone who got any kind of funding, but n=3 is a small sample. I don't have any personal feedback for Nova, other than our local inpatient psych unit hires a lot of clinical psych PhDs from that program.

One of my advisors also gave me the same advice about LCSW, esp since I'd like to work with military. However, your interests and orientation seem to lie more within a MA in clinical or counseling psych realm. I am always against someone picking a degree they won't like just because someone (or many someones) said it would be more useful. I am personally fine (and kinda looking forward to) the MSW curriculum, I chose it because I think it is a strong license. But if you are really iffy -- then id really suggest looking at the LMHC if you're still on the fence with PsyD etc. Research all options on your own. My honest opinion is that FL is one of the better states to pursue an LMHC in.

Normally, this is where I lecture people about looking up your state licensure laws, but since I already know FL (har har) I can tell you that FL has stringent standards for LCSW, MFT, and LMHC.

I really wish you warm fuzzies in your decision making process! Let us know what you decide. I'm particularly interested since I recognize all the programs you mentioned.

 

[Slugathor]

Thank you so much for your responses! I have looked into the CSWE and am applying to Florida State University and Florida Atlantic University. Both have clinical tracks and those seem more what I want to do. I just think I'm going to be uninterested in the classes, but it will be worth it if I get to do what I've wanted to do so long which is therapy.

When I say the overall functioning of the brain, I guess I mean how disorders come about, the causes, symptoms, treatments, and such which obviously involves some neuroscience. These types of things I feel wouldn't be covered in the MSW, as I was told from a student and an LCSW that the degree doesn't help you, the field work does.

I am guessing here, but I do not believe even the most clinical MSW programs will go into such topics, but you will definitely practice therapy. The important thing is to look at the practicum sites that past practicum students have attended. Talk to the director and practicum coordinator of the relevant programs. Make sure that not only have they placed people in wanted sites in the past, but also that they are actively looking to put new people at said sites. Also, what is your past experience? Advanced standing? This will determine what kind of bargaining chip you have when it comes to negotiating with the practicum coordinator.....bad memories.

 

[TheZep]

Goobernut -

Yes, the LMCH sounds more of a academic side of what I would like, however, career wise, i essentially want to practice therapy on an individual and group setting, mainly utilizing CBT. I don't have much confidence that the MSW is going to be academiclaly what I am looking for, hoewver career wise it seems to be the degree that will get me to where I want to go. I have a specific interest in combating anxiety disorders, and also have an interest in working with the military at some point. I also like the versatility with the degree, as I feel as though at some point my interests will change. If you have any other comments or opinions, please share them!!

I have declined the acceptances at Nova and FIT, the cost was just too much, and didn't seem worth it when all I really want to do is therapy.

Slugathor -

The only experience I have is helping a graduate student with her research, and volunteering at a substance abuse counseling center for two months. I am about to graduate with my BS in psych. I've spoken with a student at FSU who is currently in the MSW program and she said the chances of getting your practicum sites are good, however I will definitely ask around. Also, in the tallahassee area, there are tons of field placement opportunities, they are listed on FSU's site, and I still haven't gone through the whole list yet.

 

[Slugathor]

Goobernut -

Yes, the LMCH sounds more of a academic side of what I would like, however, career wise, i essentially want to practice therapy on an individual and group setting, mainly utilizing CBT. I don't have much confidence that the MSW is going to be academiclaly what I am looking for, hoewver career wise it seems to be the degree that will get me to where I want to go. I have a specific interest in combating anxiety disorders, and also have an interest in working with the military at some point. I also like the versatility with the degree, as I feel as though at some point my interests will change. If you have any other comments or opinions, please share them!!

I have declined the acceptances at Nova and FIT, the cost was just too much, and didn't seem worth it when all I really want to do is therapy.

Slugathor -

The only experience I have is helping a graduate student with her research, and volunteering at a substance abuse counseling center for two months. I am about to graduate with my BS in psych. I've spoken with a student at FSU who is currently in the MSW program and she said the chances of getting your practicum sites are good, however I will definitely ask around. Also, in the tallahassee area, there are tons of field placement opportunities, they are listed on FSU's site, and I still haven't gone through the whole list yet.

That substance abuse counseling experience should help you land a quality practicum site. Do not take a general practicum first year, they may try this. You are not green and it will hurt you in the long run if they push that on you. Try and get something in mental health and/or substance abuse, since you want to practice therapy. Want you want to do is do a practicum in the first year that will allow you to do the real one you want in the second year. You want therapy, anxiety disorders, and working with the military, so you will probably try and shoot for the ptsd clinic at your local VA the second year. I doubt you will get that the first year, so try and look for community agencies that have behavioral health components and possibly even work for the state's mental health component as well (some state's have stipend programs for certain fields-tuition free and guaranteed job for 2-4 years). You may want to look into that.

 

[TheZep]

Thanks, Slugathor, I will definitely look into all of that!