MSW relevance to PsyD

[Cyniclaus]

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Hello, I've stumbled across these forums and am looking for advice.

My basic question is

Would it be worthwhile/advisable to pursue an MSW for credentialing and practical experience in counseling before applying to a PsyD program?

To make a simple question complicated, let me give you a little background on myself:

I am a 32-year-old Army Captain

I have a lifelong interest in psychology and while my psych was my original major, I ended up getting a generic liberal arts degree to satisfy commissioning requirements in the Army. I have always had the intention to return to graduate study in psychology, my first and true passion. Unfortunately, my military career forced me to place my real interests on the back burner...until now.

My interest is in the humanistic side of psychology--understanding people and helping them to understand themselves. While I am certainly not qualified in any way to be a professional counselor, I have had a long string of friends, colleagues and subordinates who have found me "easy to talk to" and have somehow ended up coming to me for advice in their personal lives. I have used my admittedly limited knowledge of psychology "to help them to help themselves." On several occasions, when I have found people to have serious "issues", I have referred them to qualified counselors. At any rate, I have found that I really enjoy helping and working with people. On more than one occasion, people I have spoken with have told me that I would make a great counselor and that I should pursue formal accreditation.

That being said, I have been seriously re-looking my career choices. My current field (in the Army) is Human Resources, but my heart is definitely not in it. My goal is to find a way to study psychology in a way that I can make a career out of counseling people. Specifically, since I have 12 years invested in the Army (including time in the Infantry), I would like to build on that experience and be an Army mental health counselor. In the Army, this requires either an MSW to be a Social Worker, an MD to be a Psychiatrist, or an APA-accredited PhD/PsyD to be a Clinical Psycologist. Medical school is out of the question because I have zero lab work in my undergrad studies, and also because I am frankly too late in life to be going down that road. I am interested in a PsyD rather than a PhD because I want to be a counselor, not a scientist and I have no interest in working in academia or a lab.

SO, here is my real question (again):

Would it be worthwhile/advisable to pursue an MSW for credentialing and practical experience in counseling before applying to a PsyD program?

The benefit I see in this, apart from making my admission to a decent PsyD program a lot easier, would be that I could potentially decide to go forward with a career as an Army Social Worker without going "all the way" for the doctorate. I understand that there is a lot of overlap in the Army between MSWs/PhDs anyway for marriage and family counseling, PTSD, substance abuse, etc. I could also potentially begin MSW studies part-time before taking a leave of absence from the Army to finish up--which I don't think I would dare attempt with a PsyD even if I had the option. The obvious downside to getting the MSW first is that it is an extra 3+ years added to the time to get a PsyD and, as such, might even demotivate me to go "all the way" to a PsyD.

My undergrad GPA is about 3.5--lower than it could have been because I finished my degree while I was doing full-time Army stuff. I have not yet taken the GRE, but I have never taken a standardized test where I haven't scored above the 90th percentile. Tuition is not really a consideration either since 1) I still have the G.I Bill 2) The Army has all kinds of scholarships and loan repayment plans and 3) My new wife is both an RN and a dietician and is pursuing a doctorate in Physical Therapy, so she can support me while I go to school 😛

I apologize if I've been long-winded and I look forward with great appreciation to any advice or comments!🙂

-J

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I didn't have time to read your entire post, but from reading your bolded part........no. An MSW is not meant as a stepping stone to a Psy.D. or Ph.D. Social Work and Psychology can be quite different, as can the skill sets. If you want to ultimately attend a Psy.D....work towards that directly.

 

[Ollie123]

What T4C said, though I'm left wondering if a clinical psychology PsyD is necessarily the right fit for you.

You mention a desire to "understand people and help them understand themselves" and advice-giving. Is this what makes you think you'd like clinical psychology, or do you think this is what clinical psychologists do?

If the former, great, come on board, if the latter you might want to look into social work or counseling psychology instead. Clinical psych is very pathology-oriented (counseling can be too though, so you'd have to pick the program carefully). Its a lot closer to the medical model than it is to say, a HS guidance counselor - from your post it sounds like you might want something more in between which is where the MSW or Counseling psychology degrees come in.

If I'm wrong and reading too much into it, feel free to tell me to go away😉 Was just the impression I got. If you are set on a clinical PsyD, I'm not sure an MSW is the best stepping stone since as I said, its a pretty different training model.

 

[deleted176373]

Hello, I've stumbled across these forums and am looking for advice.

To make a simple question complicated, let me give you a little background on myself:

I am a 32-year-old Army Captain


I am interested in a PsyD rather than a PhD because I want to be a counselor, not a scientist and I have no interest in working in academia or a lab.

-J

GO TO USUHS!

4 year clinical Ph.D. practice oriented, guaranteed internship, guaranteed job, YOU GET PAID AND STAY ON ACTIVE DUTY PLUS YOUR TIME COUNTS TO RETIREMENT!!! (5 Years towards retirement and a paycheck the whole time you are in school as an O-3)

No Brainer!

Mark

PS - USUHS is a "balanced" program, but really it plays to the fact that the military students will be clinicians.

 

[SingleGirl]

I have an MSW and am getting ready to apply to PsyD programs.

However, I didn't go into the MSW intending to go on to a PsyD. I applied to a PsyD after undergrad and was wait listed and decided on MSW as a suitable replacement.

However, the MSW lacked the meat and potatoes I need to feel capable. I lucked out and spent my 18 month internship on an inpatient psychiatric unit where I basically got to complete a psychiatric residency with a DO psychdoc as my immediate supervisor. It was completely fascinating and I learned a bundle.

Following graduation, and obtaining a job w/my MSW, I realized (with no disrespect for what they do) that my skills and interests are not in line with their skills and interests.

If time is an issue for you, and your main goal is to open a practice, I'd recommend the MSW. It's a 2 year program and after 2 years of supervision, you are free to practice completely independent of any supervision, etc. That is 4 years start to finish hang your shingle kinda situation...

For me, I would rather be the most stupid person in a doctoral program than to continue to be the most knowledgeable person among my current colleagues. It is a huge burden to carry and it got to a point where I carried a caseload twice as large as the next person b/c of the skills I gained through 18 months of daily diagnosis, treatment teams, research, instant feedback, etc.

There is nothing wrong with the MSW and I am proud to be a social worker... it's a very motivated field where a lot of clinicians have dedicated their lives to advocacy and attempts at policy change, etc. However, I think it's also a dumping ground for people who want an easy, supervision free therapy position... So beware of that monster.

Best of luck with your decision.

 

[erg923]

I always tell people to ask themselves why they want to become a clinical psychologist before they go through this process. If your ONLY answer is "to do therapy with people,".... look into another field such as a MSW or MHC masters. Ph.D and even Psy.D is likely over-kill if therapy is your sole interest.