My chances-reapplicant

[MDProspect]

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I have applied this cycle but so far it has been fruitless. I took the opportunity to speak with admissions from a school from which I got rejected. Their feedback was to take the new mcat since I took the old mcat twice and got <20 and a >30. I don't think its feasible to take the new mcat as there is no guarantee that I can do as well as I did on my second attempt.

My other stats:
Overall GPA 3.6+
sGPA 3.4-3.5 (going back to school to take more science classes to show an upward trend/get GPA above 3.5)
100+ hours of shadowing
100+ hours of hospital volunteer
50+ hours as a surgical volunteer in the OR
1000+ hours of medicine related work experience with an administrative position
100+ hours of biochem research
started a new research position in green chemistry (might lead to a first author publication in a low-tier chemistry journal)
100+ hours Soup kitchen volunteer
Started a non-profit org that was recognized as a 501(c)3 to help children and homeless adults get screened and receive prescription eye glasses
Going to be an adjunct lecturer in chemistry this semester

NY resident

Should I reapply next cycle with these stats, if so, which MD schools?

 

[drdking]

What schools did you apply to this cycle?

 

[MDProspect]

What schools did you apply to this cycle?

Downstate, Hofstra, Upstate, Buffalo, NYMC, Jefferson, Rochester, Einstein, and NYCOM

Edit: Tried staying close to home and didn't have the money to apply broadly.

 

[drdking]

From what I recall, all those schools have higher median GPA and MCAT, assuming you got a 31/32, and I have no idea how the sub twenty to a 30 is viewed.

I would say based on you starting the charity alone you should look into Cooper, they put a huge emphasis on public service. Also TCMC, and Quinnipiac would be worth looking into.

Have you considered DO schools? From what I gather your numbers should fit in very well there for interviews.

 

[GrapesofRath]

A number of New York state schools often tend to average multiple MCAT scores as part of their evaluation. That likely played some role in your fate. Jefferson has been known to average multiple MCAT scores in their evaluation as well. And even schools that dont explicitly average will see that <20 score and factor it into their evaluation.

Youll be fine for DO schools. You certainly need to apply more broadly to MD programs(especially focus on schools where you arent a reapplicant). I really dont recommend retaking the MCAT; your second score is competitive it really is best to leave it as is. Get MSAR to target schools that take at least 30% OOS with stats nearest yours to find out which OOS to apply to.

 

[MDProspect]

From what I recall, all those schools have higher median GPA and MCAT, assuming you got a 31/32, and I have no idea how the sub twenty to a 30 is viewed.

I would say based on you starting the charity alone you should look into Cooper, they put a huge emphasis on public service. Also TCMC, and Quinnipiac would be worth looking into.

Have you considered DO schools? From what I gather your numbers should fit in very well there for interviews.

I have considered DO, but I am withdrawn for personal reasons. I applied to NYCOM this cycle but it was back in late November and still no answer. I am reconsidering DO as I am completely devastated by how horribly wrong this cycle went. But for now, I am looking for MD schools where I can have a good shot at getting an II. Jefferson's viewpoint was that the low score and good score will be always averaged so my actual score would be a 25.

 

[MDProspect]

A number of New York state schools often tend to average multiple MCAT scores as part of their evaluation. That likely played some role in your fate. Jefferson has been known to average multiple MCAT scores in their evaluation as well. And even schools that dont explicitly average will see that <20 score and factor it into their evaluation.

Youll be fine for DO schools. You certainly need to apply more broadly to MD programs(especially focus on schools where you arent a reapplicant). I really dont recommend retaking the MCAT; your second score is competitive it really is best to leave it as is. Get MSAR to target schools that take at least 30% OOS with stats nearest yours to find out which OOS to apply to.

Do you have any schools in mind?

 

[GrapesofRath]

Do you have any schools in mind?

You really need to get MSAR. It'll answer this question better than anything else. You already made the mistake of applying once without getting MSAR don't make the same mistake again

 

[MDProspect]

You really need to get MSAR. It'll answer this question better than anything else. You already made the mistake of applying once without getting MSAR don't make the same mistake again

I did use MSAR and still have an active subscription. Every school except Einstein and Rochester was aligned with my stats. For instance, Downstate has a 3.4 GPA 10th percentile and 30 MCAT 10th percentile.

 

[GrapesofRath]

I did use MSAR and still have an active subscription. Every school except Einstein and Rochester was aligned with my stats. For instance, Downstate has a 3.4 GPA 10th percentile and 30 MCAT 10th percentile.

So do the same for schools OOS. Pick 20 and if you would like input on whether they are good choices feel free to post them on here.

 

[Goro]

You need to have a wider school list, and get more patient contact volunteering experience. I don't know what your administrative experience entails, and it may be that Adcoms are discounting it.

Given your MCAT history, I am more conservative as to your chances. My school would average your attempts, and so I'm being more conservative with my suggestions:

Rush
NYMC
Creighton
Albany
Rosy Franklin
Drexel
Temple
Loma Linda (but read their list of don'ts)
MCW
St. Louis U
WVU
Jefferson
Tulane
Loyola
U Miami
Wake Forest
EVMS
VCU
Oakland-B
Western MI
Netter
CUNY Med (but get more service for people in need)
Any DO program, starting with PCOM, NYITCOM and Touro-NY
All SUNYs

I have applied this cycle but so far it has been fruitless. I took the opportunity to speak with admissions from a school from which I got rejected. Their feedback was to take the new mcat since I took the old mcat twice and got <20 and a >30. I don't think its feasible to take the new mcat as there is no guarantee that I can do as well as I did on my second attempt.

My other stats:
Overall GPA 3.6+
sGPA 3.4-3.5 (going back to school to take more science classes to show an upward trend/get GPA above 3.5)
100+ hours of shadowing
100+ hours of hospital volunteer
50+ hours as a surgical volunteer in the OR
1000+ hours of medicine related work experience with an administrative position
100+ hours of biochem research
started a new research position in green chemistry (might lead to a first author publication in a low-tier chemistry journal)
100+ hours Soup kitchen volunteer
Started a non-profit org that was recognized as a 501(c)3 to help children and homeless adults get screened and receive prescription eye glasses
Going to be an adjunct lecturer in chemistry this semester

NY resident

Should I reapply next cycle with these stats, if so, which MD schools?

 

[MDProspect]

You need to have a wider school list, and get more patient contact volunteering experience. I don't know what your administrative experience entails, and it may be that Adcoms are discounting it.

Given your MCAT history, I am more conservative as to your chances. My school would average your attempts, and so I'm being more conservative with my suggestions:

What would be a "safe" number of contact volunteering experience? Totaling my shadowing and hospital experiences, it comes out to 600 hours. As for my administrative position, I was a director of patient care in a private home care agency, where my responsibility was to oversee that our patients were getting the care that they needed. I thought that CUNY Med is only for URM and for Sophie Davis students. I applied to Jefferson this cycle, and they were the ones that told me that I need to retake the MCAT; even though, they mention that they only look at the most recent MCAT score. Would you recommend the new medical schools such as Seton Hall-Hackensack? Lastly, are there any schools that don't average several scores?

 

[Goro]

Your administrative position is something I'm having trouble wrapping my head around as to whether it counts as patient contact experience. This is where I'll call for reinforcements @gonnif? @LizzyM @gyngyn? What say you?

 

[LizzyM]

Keep in mind that the best way to assess multiple MCATs as a predictor of anything that matters is to use the mean of the MCATs. So you have something like a 25. With a 25, everyone is going to tell you to retake. Unless the >30 was a fluke, you should be able to do as well the next time out. If it was a fluke, maybe you don't belong in med school.

Administration in a private home care agency suggests to me that you were not in face-to-face contact with patients or their families. So, it is a job with responsibilities but not really close enough to patients to be clinical.

 

[MDProspect]

Keep in mind that the best way to assess multiple MCATs as a predictor of anything that matters is to use the mean of the MCATs. So you have something like a 25. With a 25, everyone is going to tell you to retake. Unless the >30 was a fluke, you should be able to do as well the next time out. If it was a fluke, maybe you don't belong in med school.

Administration in a private home care agency suggests to me that you were not in face-to-face contact with patients or their families. So, it is a job with responsibilities but not really close enough to patients to be clinical.

I would agree with you that my position would seem that I was sitting comfortably in the office and not having face-to-face encounters with patients; however, I wrote in my PS and in the experience section about how I went to patients' homes for visits and during Sandy, I personally delivered food, water, and triaged patients to ensure their safety during the storm. In either case, I am not relying on my employment to show for something that it isn't. And my 30+ score wasn't a fluke. I would get a similar score if the exam wasn't restructed to include psych and sociology, both of which I haven't taken.

Is there a way I can still get into an MD school without retaking the exam? Additionally, I got my low score right after my last semester where I took upper level chemistry courses and honors research and then 5 months later I got a 30+. Wouldn't the first score seem like a poor choice of timing and not a concrete reflection of my ability?

 

[gyngyn]

Is there a way I can still get into an MD school without retaking the exam? Additionally, I got my low score right after my last semester where I took upper level chemistry courses and honors research and then 5 months later I got a 30+. Wouldn't the first score seem like a poor choice of timing and not a concrete reflection of my ability?

If we actually knew this were true it would reflect poorly upon your judgement.

 

[GrapesofRath]

OP what happened with you is very rare; less than 1% of people who retake the MCAT score 10 points higher and you are talking about close to a 15 point type improvement. People dont just jump from 15th percentile to 85th percentile because of something that is due to natural ability or the skills the MCAT tests. When somebody goes from <20 to >30 there are really only two possible considerations at play from my(albeit limited) perspective.

1) Poor planning/decision making. Just winging the test, not preparing at all, not realizing the seriousness of it. It's very hard to argue this wasnt at play here to some extent.
2) Mental breakdown on the first test. Very high levels of anxiety, panicking etc. IMO this is the far bigger issue than the first one. Others might disagree but I can see the first thing I listed as forgiveable to a decent point. But this second thing is really what can cause concern. There is simply no way at all to guarantee on future board exams at all.

There are things I dont really agree with on the study the AAMC made several years ago about why schools should average scores and I dont agree with the conclusions they made off some of their data. This kind of highlights an instance where I dont see value in adhering to this policy. I dont think you can say with any confidence "Averaging" these scores is the best way to predict someone's performance in medical school. Too small a sample size and too much variation in the scores. Unfortunately for you there are still schools that will.

For a school that strictly averages MCAT scores like LizzyM's, youll be out of luck. Unfortunately, several of the state schools in your state tend to have a policy to average multiple scores(just look at Stony Brooks website as one example). And at these type of schools, retaking isnt going to bring your net average up much, retaking and getting a 33/514 only brings up you to a 27-28 average. Your best bet is going to be at schools that dont strictly adhere to the idea of "we need to average multiple MCATs no questions asked". And fortunately a number of them dont. And at those schools the interpretation of your score will vary widely. Some could easily not really let that <20 affect their evaluation significantly. For others, it will to a point it will significantly affect your chances at a II. All you can do in your situation is apply broadly and hope for the best.

 

[gyngyn]

OP what happened with you is very rare; less than 1% of people who retake the MCAT score 10 points higher and you are talking about close to a 15 point type improvement. People dont just jump from 15th percentile to 85th percentile because of something that is due to natural ability or the skills the MCAT tests. When somebody goes from <20 to >30 there are really only two possible considerations at play from my(albeit limited) perspective.

1) Poor planning/decision making. Just winging the test, not preparing at all, not realizing the seriousness of it. It's very hard to argue this wasnt at play here to some extent.
2) Mental breakdown on the first test. Very high levels of anxiety, panicking etc. IMO this is the far bigger issue than the first one. Others might disagree but I can see the first thing I listed as forgiveable to a decent point. But this second thing is really what can cause concern. There is simply no way at all to guarantee on future board exams at all.

There are things I dont really agree with on the study the AAMC made several years ago about why schools should average scores and I dont agree with the conclusions they made off some of their data. This kind of highlights an instance where I dont see value in adhering to this policy. I dont think you can say with any confidence "Averaging" these scores is the best way to predict someone's performance in medical school. Too small a sample size and too much variation in the scores. Unfortunately for you there are still schools that will.

For a school that strictly averages MCAT scores like LizzyM's, youll be out of luck. Unfortunately, several of the state schools in your state tend to have a policy to average multiple scores(just look at Stony Brooks website as one example). And at these type of schools, retaking isnt going to bring your net average up much, retaking and getting a 33/514 only brings up you to a 27-28 average. Your best bet is going to be at schools that dont strictly adhere to the idea of "we need to average multiple MCATs no questions asked". And fortunately a number of them dont. And at those schools the interpretation of your score will vary widely. Some could easily not really let that <20 affect their evaluation significantly. For others, it will to a point it will significantly affect your chances at a II. All you can do in your situation is apply broadly and hope for the best.

You only get one passing shot at USMLE.

 

[GrapesofRath]

You only get one passing shot at USMLE.

Well lets just say you don't want to ever be in a position where you have to take step 1 more than once

 

[MDProspect]

@GrapesofRath
In my case, it was both factors at play. I was finishing my degree and I didn't want to take a year off so I rushed to take the exam even though I wasn't ready for it. I've been kicking myself everyday for the lapse of judgement and in part ruining my future. I am bending over backwards trying to fix my mistakes.

I was told that the new MCAT would be my "get of out jail free card" as AAMC and the schools agreed that the old exams are invalidated and aren't sent out to schools when an applicant takes the new exam.

I sincerely appreciate the advice from all of you. If I don't get a positive outcome from the SUNY schools that I am still waiting on, then the next cycle, I'll apply to DO schools and any MD schools that you recommend.
Earlier, I asked about the new med schools that will have their first class during fall 2017. Should I apply to them?

 

[Goro]

You were told wrong; Adcoms always see every MCAT score. AMCAS recommends averaging scores. Even at scores that say they take the best score, or best composite, your milage may vary with the biases of individual interviewers or screeners.

I think that it will be worth trying the newest med schools, but pay very careful attention to their mission statements, and whether they are state schools or not.

I was told that the new MCAT would be my "get of out jail free card" as AAMC and the schools agreed that the old exams are invalidated and aren't sent out to schools when an applicant takes the new exam.

I sincerely appreciate the advice from all of you. If I don't get a positive outcome from the SUNY schools that I am still waiting on, then the next cycle, I'll apply to DO schools and any MD schools that you recommend.
Earlier, I asked about the new med schools that will have their first class during fall 2017. Should I apply to them?

 

[whatever5]

I did use MSAR and still have an active subscription. Every school except Einstein and Rochester was aligned with my stats. For instance, Downstate has a 3.4 GPA 10th percentile and 30 MCAT 10th percentile.

I think you are mistaken in your approach to determine if a school is in reach, numbers wise.

Basically, you want to be around the 50th percentile overall. For example, if your GPA is in the 30th percentile, you want an MCAT in the 70th more or less.

Being in the 10th percentile for BOTH gpa and mcat does not mean you are competitive for that school, it is a good predictor you will not get an interview.

 

[MDProspect]

I think you are mistaken in your approach to determine if a school is in reach, numbers wise.

Basically, you want to be around the 50th percentile overall. For example, if your GPA is in the 30th percentile, you want an MCAT in the 70th more or less.

Being in the 10th percentile for BOTH gpa and mcat does not mean you are competitive for that school, it is a good predictor you will not get an interview.

I understand what you are saying, but it would mean that my GPA and MCAT is not competitive for almost any of the US med schools, except for the 3 Puerto Rican schools.

 

[darknecrosforte]

I understand what you are saying, but it would mean that my GPA and MCAT is not competitive for almost any of the US med schools, except for the 3 Puerto Rican schools.

If you REALLY wanted to be a physician of some sort and considering the merger will have occurred by the time you graduate, why aren't DO schools considered to be med schools to you? You already know you aren't hot stuff stats-wise, but are still mostly aiming for a seat in a very competitive state and primarily MD even though they are pretty unforgiving for poor judgment compared to DO (which your stats are perfectly fine for).

 

[MDProspect]

If you REALLY wanted to be a physician of some sort and considering the merger will have occurred by the time you graduate, why aren't DO schools considered to be med schools to you? You already know you aren't hot stuff stats-wise, but are still mostly aiming for a seat in a very competitive state and primarily MD even though they are pretty unforgiving for poor judgment compared to DO (which your stats are perfectly fine for).

I know I am not a hotshot. But having almost two of everything (2 research positions, two shadowings, etc) maybe could grant me an II at a lower tier md school. I've seen applicants with lower numbers matriculate in my state schools. I do consider DO schools as med schools; however, the bias towards Dos will not cease to exist just because of the merger. Majority of the DOs in my area have to lie and put DO/MD titles next to their names to attract patients. I want a speciality outside of primary medicine, and with DO, it will be much more difficult to achieve that. Additionally, if I ever decide to move out of America, I wouldn't be recognized as a physician.

 

[darknecrosforte]

I know I am not a hotshot. But having almost two of everything (2 research positions, two shadowings, etc) maybe could grant me an II at a lower tier md school. I've seen applicants with lower numbers matriculate in my state schools. I do consider DO schools as med schools; however, the bias towards Dos will not cease to exist just because of the merger. Majority of the DOs in my area have to lie and put DO/MD titles next to their names to attract patients. I want a speciality outside of primary medicine, and with DO, it will be much more difficult to achieve that. Additionally, if I ever decide to move out of America, I wouldn't be recognized as a physician.

It's fine to have wants and to only want to live near your home town. But the world is not your home town.

Unless you want to practice in Uganda or Portugal, I think you'll be fine.

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a.../Pages/international-practice-rights-map.aspx

 

[candbgirl]

Majority of the DOs in my area have to lie and put DO/MD titles next to their names to attract patients. I want a speciality outside of primary medicine, and with DO, it will be much more difficult to achieve that. Additionally, if I ever decide to move out of America, I wouldn't be recognized as a physician.

OMG you are so full of misinformation I'm dumbfounded! I mean really?
Do you really believe that the majority of DOs in your area falsify their titles and credentials? To begin with that is highly unethical. You came to this board for help. You have gotten very good advice and ideas. I'm sorry that it isn't to your liking. But you are the one that got below a 20 on your first MCAT and your average is 25. You are the one with average-below average GPAs. You are the one who is reapplying. If you want to be a doc you could be starting this summer if you had applied DO this cycle. But you feel DO is beneath you. Just a FYI- the recently retired head of electrophysiology at the University of Chicago is a DO. A Professor of Medicine in the Infectious Disease department at the same hospital is a DO. So decide what's important to you and go from there


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app

 

[NonTrad16]

I understand what you are saying, but it would mean that my GPA and MCAT is not competitive for almost any of the US med schools, except for the 3 Puerto Rican schools.

Just because this is what it suggests, doesn't make the method any less true. I have a 3.5 undergrad, MSEng, lots of research, 32-33 equivalent mcat, volunteering/shadowing and got shutout of most of the schools you listed. (Still hanging on at a few.)

This process is competitive, and unless you have an amazing X factor, there's no reason to think you'd have luck applying to schools where you're under the 50th percentile for both major stats (mcat, GPA). A NY school adcom member told me those two factors are nearly 70% of the pre-interview evaluation.

I'm broadening my school list and including more DO schools next year. If nothing else, you'd definitely benefit from more schools.

 

[MDProspect]

OMG you are so full of misinformation I'm dumbfounded! I mean really?
Do you really believe that the majority of DOs in your area falsify their titles and credentials? To begin with that is highly unethical. You came to this board for help. You have gotten very good advice and ideas. I'm sorry that it isn't to your liking. But you are the one that got below a 20 on your first MCAT and your average is 25. You are the one with average-below average GPAs. You are the one who is reapplying. If you want to be a doc you could be starting this summer if you had applied DO this cycle. But you feel DO is beneath you. Just a FYI- the recently retired head of electrophysiology at the University of Chicago is a DO. A Professor of Medicine in the Infectious Disease department at the same hospital is a DO. So decide what's important to you and go from there


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app

Well, if you would have read all of my comments before posting, you would have seen that I don't think DO is beneath me. I applied to only NYCOM and didn't broaden my school list as I did not have the funds to do so. I could not just spend 7K on a 40+ school list on a whim. I don't need to prove anything to you, but there are a bunch of former Soviet Union physicians in the area who became DOs in America and list themselves as MD/DO. There are DOs who achieved a lot in their careers but how do you explain that more than half of DOs are in primary medicine. Yes, I got great advice from people on here and I'll apply to more DO schools next cycle.

 

[MDProspect]

Just because this is what it suggests, doesn't make the method any less true. I have a 3.5 undergrad, MSEng, lots of research, 32-33 equivalent mcat, volunteering/shadowing and got shutout of most of the schools you listed. (Still hanging on at a few.)

This process is competitive, and unless you have an amazing X factor, there's no reason to think you'd have luck applying to schools where you're under the 50th percentile for both major stats (mcat, GPA). A NY school adcom member told me those two factors are nearly 70% of the pre-interview evaluation.

I'm broadening my school list and including more DO schools next year. If nothing else, you'd definitely benefit from more schools.

Did you get an II this cycle?

 

[NonTrad16]

Did you get an II this cycle?

Nope. Over 20 schools in the same region you're looking at, including a handful of DO where I'm well above average stat wise (but I guess they don't see my fit? Or... Hell if I know.)

Not saying not to keep trying, I definitely will try again, but aiming to understand the real reason for inviting and accepting those with lower stats is near impossible afaik. Some (most) of this is a crap shoot when you're not perched atop heavenly stats.

 

[darknecrosforte]

Nope. Over 20 schools in the same region you're looking at, including a handful of DO where I'm well above average stat wise (but I guess they don't see my fit? Or... Hell if I know.)

Not saying not to keep trying, I definitely will try again, but aiming to understand the real reason for inviting and accepting those with lower stats is near impossible afaik. Some (most) of this is a crap shoot when you're not perched atop heavenly stats.

The "system" wants to figure out how to affect PCP distribution so that the overall USA population has a decent amount of PCP availability.

It can use force by institutionally placing MS4s in specialties based on performance (BOOOO!), it can financially incentivize rural/inner-city service (it TRIES to, but not enough monies to offset debt), it can reduce tuition and debt (since physicians CAN'T go on strike, they can't protest quantitative easing and other Federal Reserve/entitlement spending of government that is the root of the over-borrowing), OR... they can focus on trying to admit students who would serve in these areas willingly.

Draw your own conclusions:

1. The health system as a whole has determined that the best way to address the physician geographic distribution, primarily in PCPs, is to try to prioritize qualified applicants who have a higher disposition to fill those areas of need. Two factors are cited in the rural practice paper: specialty and background. For their purposes and sanity, this is simplified with the ambiguous term diversity. Areas that contribute to diversity:

• financial
• environmental - urban, rural, family violence, etc.
• educational - parent's highest education level, quality of high school
• race/ethnicity
• biographic - deceased parent, military

2. More than 75% of matriculants are in the top 3 quintiles for family income with a median of $100,000 (2006 data). ~50% knew they wanted to pursue medicine before college and an additional 22% learned early during college. The SES link provides an actual formula based on "points assigned" on calculations. But generally, applicants are stratified and compared among applicants in the same group. I have seen in multiple threads that a student with a 27-29 MCAT is expected to pass Step 1 and 2. So even if, let's say, black applicants have a mean MCAT of 24 (random "low" number), IF there were some who had a 29, had good ECs, decent GPA of maybe 3.2 (compared to the average of their "diversity group"), and had a part-time job, it is understandable why a seat would be offered to this student over an ORM with a 35/3.7 who likely came from a background that is extremely unlikely to serve in needed areas based on current data UNLESS their ECs provide solid evidence that they love the crap outta them urban/rural folks.

3. RETENTION of these rural-serving PCPs is also affected by their medical "preparation" to handle that life. Once the loan repayment or contracts expire, if the physician was not trained specifically for the practicing region, it is less likely that they'd stay. This also increases the incentive to accept rural/low-SES/inner-city applicants. Med school mission statements and curriculum changes reflect the need to prod students to serve as PCPs or in high-need areas.



So what does the white, suburban-dwelling, above-average stat applicant do? The "easy" suggestions are: military service (diversity), solid evidence of very long-term dedication to under-served populations, have a rare "circus trick" (random example: As a cooking enthusiast, you go into urban areas and publicly demonstrate on the street, maybe near a school, how to use very cheap, common foods to make a balanced/healthy meal and lead random people to actually try it.).

ORMs must consequently get higher results to get accepted, go into derm, etc. but EVEN WITH the shift in admissions priorities, there are plenty of ORMs getting in. I think things are mostly balanced right now. Applicants also underestimate the ability to write well and market themselves.

References:
http://www.aafp.org/about/policies/all/rural-practice-paper.html
https://www.aamc.org/download/102338/data/aibvol8no1.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/332154/data/sespresentation.pdf

 

[MDProspect]

The "system" wants to figure out how to affect PCP distribution so that the overall USA population has a decent amount of PCP availability.

It can use force by institutionally placing MS4s in specialties based on performance (BOOOO!), it can financially incentivize rural/inner-city service (it TRIES to, but not enough monies to offset debt), it can reduce tuition and debt (since physicians CAN'T go on strike, they can't protest quantitative easing and other Federal Reserve/entitlement spending of government that is the root of the over-borrowing), OR... they can focus on trying to admit students who would serve in these areas willingly.

Draw your own conclusions:

1. The health system as a whole has determined that the best way to address the physician geographic distribution, primarily in PCPs, is to try to prioritize qualified applicants who have a higher disposition to fill those areas of need. Two factors are cited in the rural practice paper: specialty and background. For their purposes and sanity, this is simplified with the ambiguous term diversity. Areas that contribute to diversity:

• financial
• environmental - urban, rural, family violence, etc.
• educational - parent's highest education level, quality of high school
• race/ethnicity
• biographic - deceased parent, military

2. More than 75% of matriculants are in the top 3 quintiles for family income with a median of $100,000 (2006 data). ~50% knew they wanted to pursue medicine before college and an additional 22% learned early during college. The SES link provides an actual formula based on "points assigned" on calculations. But generally, applicants are stratified and compared among applicants in the same group. I have seen in multiple threads that a student with a 27-29 MCAT is expected to pass Step 1 and 2. So even if, let's say, black applicants have a mean MCAT of 24 (random "low" number), IF there were some who had a 29, had good ECs, decent GPA of maybe 3.2 (compared to the average of their "diversity group"), and had a part-time job, it is understandable why a seat would be offered to this student over an ORM with a 35/3.7 who likely came from a background that is extremely unlikely to serve in needed areas based on current data UNLESS their ECs provide solid evidence that they love the crap outta them urban/rural folks.

3. RETENTION of these rural-serving PCPs is also affected by their medical "preparation" to handle that life. Once the loan repayment or contracts expire, if the physician was not trained specifically for the practicing region, it is less likely that they'd stay. This also increases the incentive to accept rural/low-SES/inner-city applicants. Med school mission statements and curriculum changes reflect the need to prod students to serve as PCPs or in high-need areas.



So what does the white, suburban-dwelling, above-average stat applicant do? The "easy" suggestions are: military service (diversity), solid evidence of very long-term dedication to under-served populations, have a rare "circus trick" (random example: As a cooking enthusiast, you go into urban areas and publicly demonstrate on the street, maybe near a school, how to use very cheap, common foods to make a balanced/healthy meal and lead random people to actually try it.).

ORMs must consequently get higher results to get accepted, go into derm, etc. but EVEN WITH the shift in admissions priorities, there are plenty of ORMs getting in. I think things are mostly balanced right now. Applicants also underestimate the ability to write well and market themselves.

References:
http://www.aafp.org/about/policies/all/rural-practice-paper.html
https://www.aamc.org/download/102338/data/aibvol8no1.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/332154/data/sespresentation.pdf

I don't know how I feel about this. As you mention, it's understandable to offer seats to URMs as they are the ones who would serve the areas that other applicants would not serve. But applicants who are not "suburban-dwelling", middle-upper class are getting screwed by the system. I am not interested in going in Derm or neuro and other very competitive fields. My county is considered medically underserved. I'd love to stay here and serve my community, but if I have to relocate half-way across the country to get into medical school, I am most likely going to stay there and not come back. I imagine that the applicants with the stellar stats that do get into med school in NY are going to do well on their boards and will go into those competitive residencies. This will lead to a further shortage of PCPs in the underserved areas.

 

[darknecrosforte]

I don't know how I feel about this. As you mention, it's understandable to offer seats to URMs as they are the ones who would serve the areas that other applicants would not serve. But applicants who are not "suburban-dwelling", middle-upper class are getting screwed by the system. I am not interested in going in Derm or neuro and other very competitive fields. My county is considered medically underserved. I'd love to stay here and serve my community, but if I have to relocate half-way across the country to get into medical school, I am most likely going to stay there and not come back. I imagine that the applicants with the stellar stats that do get into med school in NY are going to do well on their boards and will go into those competitive residencies. This will lead to a further shortage of PCPs in the underserved areas.

I would like to point out this STILL does not align with "more likely to serve in rural/inner-city as a PCP." The perspective of "getting screwed" is not the same as "less-desired by the change in admission preferences" (which is a lot more realistic). It really sucks that NY is geographically weird with having a lot of rural AND urban areas, but it is 2nd most competitive state for premeds (I think CA is #1).

 

[gyngyn]

I would like to point out this STILL does not align with "more likely to serve in rural/inner-city as a PCP." The perspective of "getting screwed" is not the same as "less-desired by the change in admission preferences" (which is a lot more realistic). It really sucks that NY is geographically weird with having a lot of rural AND urban areas, but it is 2nd most competitive state for premeds (I think CA is #1).

NY isn't that bad. 27% of her applicants matriculate IS. Many other states are worse: Maryland (11%), WA (12%) and UT (14%) for example.

 

[GrapesofRath]

I would like to point out this STILL does not align with "more likely to serve in rural/inner-city as a PCP." The perspective of "getting screwed" is not the same as "less-desired by the change in admission preferences" (which is a lot more realistic). It really sucks that NY is geographically weird with having a lot of rural AND urban areas, but it is 2nd most competitive state for premeds (I think CA is #1).

Like gyngyn said New York is actually a solid state with all its state programs(although the average stats at the vast majority of programs in NY are fairly high). 27% IS matriculation rate is above average. New York produces alot of high stat premeds like CA, but unlike CA they actually have a number of state programs to really aid their residents. One of the OP's problems is that <20 MCAT score; a number of state programs in New York tend to average and for schools that adhere to the averaging policy, OP is probably going to be out of luck.

 

[MDProspect]

Like gyngyn said New York is actually a solid state with all its state programs(although the average stats at the vast majority of programs in NY are fairly high). 27% IS matriculation rate is above average. New York produces alot of high stat premeds like CA, but unlike CA they actually have a number of state programs to really aid their residents. One of the OP's problems is that <20 MCAT score; a number of state programs in New York tend to average and for schools that adhere to the averaging policy, OP is probably going to be out of luck.

Yeah I am most likely out of luck in NY and other northeastern MD schools. I saw that you recommended Temple's ACMS program to other members. Do you think I should apply to it?

 

[GrapesofRath]

Yeah I am most likely out of luck in NY and other northeastern MD schools. I saw that you recommended Temple's ACMS program to other members. Do you think I should apply to it?

Sure. It's a total hail mary(over 1100 apps for 30 spots and they tend to look for very unique experiences and applicants ie its not your traditional SMP at all) but there is literally nothing to lose by applying and everything to gain if you get in.