My mom is a doctor in india for past 20 years but I want her to move to usa

[niranjankevin]

Hi,

My mom is a doctor in India for past 20 years. She has done D.M.R.D, M.D in radiology and M.D in Nuclear Medicine. She is the General Secretary of All India Council of Nuclear Medicine. I have just started to work in USA after the completion of my M.S . I want my mom to come and work here but I have no idea about the procedure involved for it. Please guide me with the things required for it. Thanks in advance.

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[je355804]

I'm pretty sure she has to redo residency in the states after passing USMLE step 1, 2 and CS.

 

[rule out normal]

Hi,

My mom is a doctor in India for past 20 years. She has done D.M.R.D, M.D in radiology and M.D in Nuclear Medicine. She is the General Secretary of All India Council of Nuclear Medicine. I have just started to work in USA after the completion of my M.S . I want my mom to come and work here but I have no idea about the procedure involved for it. Please guide me with the things required for it. Thanks in advance.

Just tell her to do the fellowship loophole. It's worked for thousands of foreign doctors who want US radiology jobs.

 

[je355804]

There's even a loophole into getting a direct path into radiology from a foreign country?

 

[colbgw02]

There's even a loophole into getting a direct path into radiology from a foreign country?

Yep. The ABR will grant certification to someone that completes 4 years of GME in radiology, even if that GME is not an ACGME-accredited residency (read: fellowships). There are some stipualations (like the fellowships have to be collocated with a residency, and the 4 years need to be at 1 institution) that can make things difficult. It's a sore point for many people because 1) the job market stinks and 2) the ABR seems to be an outlier among certifying bodies on this issue. Of course, the foreign radiologist must still go through the licensing requirements, which may be difficult if you've been practicing radiology for decades. It's not an easy road, but it's a road nonetheless, and one not open to many (most?) foreign physicians in other specialties.

 

[Zweihander]

Why on earth would someone want to leave an established years long career that they already had to become a student in the same damn thing all over again??

 

[DermViser]

Yep. The ABR will grant certification to someone that completes 4 years of GME in radiology, even if that GME is not an ACGME-accredited residency (read: fellowships). There are some stipualations (like the fellowships have to be collocated with a residency, and the 4 years need to be at 1 institution) that can make things difficult. It's a sore point for many people because 1) the job market stinks and 2) the ABR seems to be an outlier among certifying bodies on this issue. Of course, the foreign radiologist must still go through the licensing requirements, which may be difficult if you've been practicing radiology for decades. It's not an easy road, but it's a road nonetheless, and one not open to many (most?) foreign physicians in other specialties.

Wonder why Radiology allows this? Was this started back when Radiology wasn't competitive?

 

[colbgw02]

Wonder why Radiology allows this? Was this started back when Radiology wasn't competitive?

I'm not sure, really. It's been around for as long as I have, which isn't saying too much. But if you ever see a CV for someone who is neuro/peds/msk/breast trained, it's not because they're some amazing superspecialized radiologist. They're an IMG who was certified via the alternate pathway.

 

[DermViser]

I'm not sure, really. It's been around for as long as I have, which isn't saying too much. But if you ever see a CV for someone who is neuro/peds/msk/breast trained, it's not because they're some amazing superspecialized radiologist. They're an IMG who was certified via the alternate pathway.

Honestly, I don't think any field in medicine, esp. one as difficult as Radiology, in the United States should allow IMGs to infiltrate it through "alternate" pathways. It's either residency here or no deal. Only in very special circumstances (i.e. person who brings in huge RO1 research grants, Nobel prize winner, etc.). Yes, I'll admit it's my bias.

 

[colbgw02]

Honestly, I don't think any field in medicine, esp. one as difficult as Radiology, in the United States should allow IMGs to infiltrate it through "alternate" pathways. It's either residency here or no deal. Only in very special circumstances (i.e. person who brings in huge RO1 research grants, Nobel prize winner, etc.). Yes, I'll admit it's my bias.

You're certainly not alone. It was tolerated (or ignored) when the job market wasn't terrible, but it's now a source of a lot of angst with so many U.S-trained radiologists having difficult finding good work. My biggest issue with it is that the ABR really seems like an outlier here. I'm not aware of any other certifying boards that does this, so I'm not sure why the ABR thinks radiology needs to be American medicine's version of Ellis Island. My suspicion is that it's a reflection of just how much of organized radiology is run by ivory tower academics, who have a vested interest in making sure their fellowships stay filled, be it from U.S. or foreign-trained radiologists.

 

[niranjankevin]

Can my mom work in USA without taking up the USMLE ? If so , tell me how to do it.

 

[je355804]

Honestly, I don't think any field in medicine, esp. one as difficult as Radiology, in the United States should allow IMGs to infiltrate it through "alternate" pathways. It's either residency here or no deal. Only in very special circumstances (i.e. person who brings in huge RO1 research grants, Nobel prize winner, etc.). Yes, I'll admit it's my bias.

Just to play devil's advocate here... being neuro/breast/msk/peds trained at the fellowship level isn't really some hohum level of training.

Your point is taken though... and I tend to agree with you.

 

[DermViser]

You're certainly not alone. It was tolerated (or ignored) when the job market wasn't terrible, but it's now a source of a lot of angst with so many U.S-trained radiologists having difficult finding good work. My biggest issue with it is that the ABR really seems like an outlier here. I'm not aware of any other certifying boards that does this, so I'm not sure why the ABR thinks radiology needs to be American medicine's version of Ellis Island. My suspicion is that it's a reflection of just how much of organized radiology is run by ivory tower academics, who have a vested interest in making sure their fellowships stay filled, be it from U.S. or foreign-trained radiologists.

Meanwhile, up until recently, there were TONS of qualified U.S. medical graduates killing to get into Radiology, and ended up in other fields. I don't understand why the impetus to commodotize Radiology by your leadership. Anesthesiology is falling in the same trap.

 

[DermViser]

Can my mom work in USA without taking up the USMLE ? If so , tell me how to do it.

No, she can't. She has to take and pass the USMLE just like EVERY OTHER physician in the United States.

 

[DermViser]

Just to play devil's advocate here... being neuro/breast/msk/peds trained at the fellowship level isn't really some hohum level of training.

Your point is taken though... and I tend to agree with you.

I understand that. However, every radiologist should have the strong foundation of 4 years of U.S. Radiology training. By allowing "alternate" pathways, you only justify that somehow that training is B.S. and unnecessary.

 

[niranjankevin]

Is all the 3 steps in USMLE mandatory before she starts to work in usa? What should she do after finishing USMLE ?

 

[DermViser]

Is all the 3 steps in USMLE mandatory before she starts to work in usa? What should she do after finishing USMLE ?

All 3 steps are necessary to have an unrestricted state license to practice medicine in the United States. More importantly, does your Mom WANT to come here (vs. you wanting her to come here).

 

[niranjankevin]

All 3 steps are necessary to have an unrestricted state license to practice medicine in the United States. More importantly, does your Mom WANT to come here (vs. you wanting her to come here).

I want her to come here.

 

[DermViser]

I want her to come here.

You do know your mom is a grown, adult woman who can make her own decisions, right?

 

[rule out normal]

Can my mom work in USA without taking up the USMLE ? If so , tell me how to do it.

I would say bribes, but that doesn't work in the US like it does in other countries.

 

[Zweihander]

I want her to come here.

I am inclined to think you're a troll...

but assuming for the sake of argument you're not, do you realize just how absurd it is to have your mother leave behind an established career where she is no doubt known and respected to come to a place where she'll be basically be a nobody foreign grad who has to struggle to gain professional opportunities that are already in scarce supply here?

The job market in radiology isn't great. There are good jobs out there to be had, but you need luck and connections to come by them.

Pushing your mother into the shark tank right now is a flat out dumb idea, unless she's got some much more compelling reason to do it beyond your "I want her to." Holy crap.

[/feedingtroll]

 

[niranjankevin]

Thanks for all your suggestions.

 

[DermViser]

I am inclined to think you're a troll...

but assuming for the sake of argument you're not, do you realize just how absurd it is to have your mother leave behind an established career where she is no doubt known and respected to come to a place where she'll be basically be a nobody foreign grad who has to struggle to gain professional opportunities that are already in scarce supply here?

The job market in radiology isn't great. There are good jobs out there to be had, but you need luck and connections to come by them.

Pushing your mother into the shark tank right now is a flat out dumb idea, unless she's got some much more compelling reason to do it beyond your "I want her to." Holy crap.

[/feedingtroll]

Well doing your own laundry and chores can be hard.

 

[Substance]

This is quite the thread...

Usually its the Indian parents pushing their kids to leave India to do medicine in the US. I've never seen in the other way around. Good for you.

The alternative pathway won't close. It 1. supplies departments with cheap labor 2. A lot of people in radiology came through that exact pathway and want to keep it open to give people opportunities they had 3. Corporations want more radiologists to oversaturate the market with skilled workers and drive down prices; doctors are seen as no more than assembly-line drones.

Not even pathology, which if you've ever been to their forums, has an alternative pathway (their actual pathway is basically the alternative pathway with how many IMGs match into it). Has the ABR leadership learned nothing from the pathology debacle? Or do they want to oversaturate the market?

Why is it turning the word do into D.O.? (Realization: oh yeah, it is April first)

 

[CDI]

This is quite the thread...

Usually its the Indian parents pushing their kids to leave India to do medicine in the US. I've never seen in the other way around. Good for you.

The alternative pathway won't close. It 1. supplies departments with cheap labor 2. A lot of people in radiology came through that exact pathway and want to keep it open to give people opportunities they had 3. Corporations want more radiologists to oversaturate the market with skilled workers and drive down prices; doctors are seen as no more than assembly-line drones.

Not even pathology, which if you've ever been to their forums, has an alternative pathway (their actual pathway is basically the alternative pathway with how many IMGs match into it). Has the ABR leadership learned nothing from the pathology debacle? Or D.O. they want to oversaturate the market?

Why is it turning the word do into D.O.?

I work in radiology at a top research institution. The only people that are willing to take up these jobs, are the crappiest AMGs and the strongest IMGs. The AMGs who join this program make about 1/4th what a radiologist would make on the outside, leading my chief to say, "All an AMG needs to get this job...is a pulse." The loophole exists because the research (specifically) won't be done otherwise, unless you can pay an AMG significantly more.

 

[TheRadiologist]

Wonder why Radiology allows this? Was this started back when Radiology wasn't competitive?

Academic radiology departments actually lobbied for this loophole. Academic radiology jobs are often hard to fill due to low pay compared to private practice. So instead of having to pay an interventional radiology attending $500K, they can get a an IMG interventional "fellow" to work for four years for 50-60K. These fellows have to pass all the USMLE and Radiology certification exams, but do not have to do an proper residency. To my knowledge radiology is the only board that will certify someone without an accredited residency.

 

[DermViser]

Academic radiology departments actually lobbied for this loophole. Academic radiology jobs are often hard to fill due to low pay compared to private practice. So instead of having to pay an interventional radiology attending $500K, they can get a an IMG interventional "fellow" to work for four years for 50-60K. These fellows have to pass all the USMLE and Radiology certification exams, but do not have to do an proper residency. To my knowledge radiology is the only board that will certify someone without an accredited residency.

I would say now is the time to repeal that loophole. This must have been when Radiology wasn't at all competitive.

 

[shark2000]

Academic radiology departments actually lobbied for this loophole. Academic radiology jobs are often hard to fill due to low pay compared to private practice. So instead of having to pay an interventional radiology attending $500K, they can get a an IMG interventional "fellow" to work for four years for 50-60K. These fellows have to pass all the USMLE and Radiology certification exams, but do not have to do an proper residency. To my knowledge radiology is the only board that will certify someone without an accredited residency.

Correction: WERE often hard to fill. Not anymore. These days it is difficult to land an academic job.

 

[maxxor]

Correction: WERE often hard to fill. Not anymore. These days it is difficult to land an academic job.

Probably because academic jobs have their parallel residencies and fellowships that they can fill most jobs internally.

 

[Medstart108]

Yep. The ABR will grant certification to someone that completes 4 years of GME in radiology, even if that GME is not an ACGME-accredited residency (read: fellowships). There are some stipualations (like the fellowships have to be collocated with a residency, and the 4 years need to be at 1 institution) that can make things difficult. It's a sore point for many people because 1) the job market stinks and 2) the ABR seems to be an outlier among certifying bodies on this issue. Of course, the foreign radiologist must still go through the licensing requirements, which may be difficult if you've been practicing radiology for decades. It's not an easy road, but it's a road nonetheless, and one not open to many (most?) foreign physicians in other specialties.

Do you know if this applies to other specialities because I have noticed many foreign fellows who seem to be fellows for years on end, maybe they are doing that loophole?