My worst nightmare applying to residencies right now...

[DrOMG]

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Summa loses bid to restart emergency medicine residency


"...delays in obtaining specialized care for patients with possible strokes and that first-year residents and rotating residents were seeing patients without supervision and patients were being sent home without ever been seen or examined by an attending physician. "

 

[deleted109597]

The good news is the number of places this happens to has now approached 1.

 

[southerndoc]

Summa really messed up royally with what they did, and the attending physicians who refused to sign on with USACS have to get credit for how cohesive they were as a group. They stood their ground firmly and Summa paid the price dearly.

 

[WilcoWorld]

In case anyone wants to know which residency programs are affiliated with USACS, here is the list published on their own website.

Let the buyer beware. You should expect better.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

I’ve heard the old group has formed a nice little locums company. Good on them. No idea why anyone would willingly work for USACS.

 

[DrMcCoyDO]

In case anyone wants to know which residency programs are affiliated with USACS, here is the list published on their own website.

Let the buyer beware. You should expect better.

One of those may drop off in the next few years. Last I heard, the program in IL has given up on becoming ACGME accredited. Maybe I heard wrong or they’ve changed their minds since I heard that, though.

 

[CajunMedic]

One of those may drop off in the next few years. Last I heard, the program in IL has given up on becoming ACGME accredited. Maybe I heard wrong or they’ve changed their minds since I heard that, though.

According to the AOA, they are listed as "working on their ACGME application", they're not in either match this year. They had 5 spots in the AOA scramble last year. I'm willing to bet they are closing

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Definitely a shame. I feel bad for all the residents that were involved in that disaster of a situation.

 

[alpinism]

Wow no idea they took over the Austin program.

I'm sure they'll continue to get tons of applications based on location alone.

 

[Apollyon]

I’ve heard the old group has formed a nice little locums company. Good on them. No idea why anyone would willingly work for USACS.

Many people work for them because they can't work anywhere else. There is a guy part time with us, who is full time with them. The location is a dumpster fire. I call him "the walking lawsuit". He is an FM guy, trained nearly 30 years ago, and sucks at EM. Moreover, he's an dingus.

 

[Tenk]

Yeah I can’t understand why anyone would ever work for that company after this. Absolutely disgusting.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Many people work for them because they can't work anywhere else. There is a guy part time with us, who is full time with them. The location is a dumpster fire. I call him "the walking lawsuit". He is an FM guy, trained nearly 30 years ago, and sucks at EM. Moreover, he's an dingus.

Taking signout from him must be fun.

 

[Apollyon]

Taking signout from him must be fun.

For the longest time, I wasn't supposed to talk to him, because he verbally accosted me one day, out of the blue. Alas, I wasn't lucky enough to have him get **** canned.

 

[southerndoc]

Yeah I can’t understand why anyone would ever work for that company after this. Absolutely disgusting.

Before I say what I'm going to say, I'm not affiliated with USACS.

Why does everyone dump on USACS instead of Summa? It was Summa that contracted with USACS and got rid of the contract with the SDG because they could not come to an agreement.

Saying that USACS is at fault here is like saying the child is at fault for his father murdering someone.

If you know anything about the true story, USACS was not called in until it was seen that contract negotiations were not going to be met in time for Summa Emergency Associates to continue their contract (which expired on 31 December). SEA was wanting a 15-year contract, which is unheard of with EM contracts. Summa requested a 30-day extension, but SEA denied it. SEA and Summa didn't meet face-to-face until the week before. That's the fault of both parties. SEA requested a 7-day extension, but Summa countered with a 14-day extension. SEA didn't budge. They sent their final offer, which Summa didn't like. SEA stood their ground, Summa didn't accept, and then must find an alternative. Summa had a phone conversation with USACS on Christmas Eve, but formal RFP's didn't go out until 12/27 with responses due by 12/29. USACS said they could do it and the rest is history. That's how it goes in business when you wait until the last minute. Even USACS CEO told Summa's president that the best solution is to work out an extension with their current group.

Do I agree with everything that happened? No. It was unfortunate and is probably a case study in many classes now. Hospital CEO's around the country will now give deep thought before ousting a group affiliated with a residency. The loss of regaining their accreditation solidifies any reticence at changing groups and the repercussions associated with doing so.

 

[deleted109597]

Well, there was that whole USACS guy and his Summa wife and all...

If best solution was to work out an extension, why didn't they? I doubt SEA said they would do it for twice as much. Honestly, I find both of them to be dirty, but USACS has failed to staff to the level where the residency could remain.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I've personally never worked for a ED contract management group. I honestly get the theory why they are bad for the specialty, but from what I've seen at least in my area, their salaries are on par with hospital employed groups. They seem to have decent benefits. And some of my colleagues have worked for USACS and didn't have a bad experience. I'm not a proponent of ED contract management groups by any means, but I just always have wondered about the experience of working for one, since I've never experienced it myself (and really don't plan to).

 

[southerndoc]

Well, there was that whole USACS guy and his Summa wife and all...

If best solution was to work out an extension, why didn't they? I doubt SEA said they would do it for twice as much. Honestly, I find both of them to be dirty, but USACS has failed to staff to the level where the residency could remain.

Ever tried to find 100 physicians in a matter of days to fill multiple ER's?

 

[miacomet]

I've personally never worked for a ED contract management group. I honestly get the theory why they are bad for the specialty, but from what I've seen at least in my area, their salaries are on par with hospital employed groups. They seem to have decent benefits. And some of my colleagues have worked for USACS and didn't have a bad experience. I'm not a proponent of ED contract management groups by any means, but I just always have wondered about the experience of working for one, since I've never experienced it myself (and really don't plan to).

I think for many the fact that they are beholden to shareholders who take money out of physician pockets is enough to ruin the experience.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I think for many the fact that they are beholden to shareholders who take money out of physician pockets is enough to ruin the experience.

I totally get that and agree with that sentiment. Compared to a private group that keeps what they bill for, there is no question a CMG is a bad alternative. But such groups are hard to find. I think a more fair comparison is CMG vs Hospital employee, and in those cases Im not sure there is a huge difference other than career stability as a hospital employee. Because in either case of hospital employee vs CMG, for the most part you are earning a salary that doesnt compare to what you are billing for, and so in either case someone is making a good bit of money and subsidizing administrative costs off of your profits.

 

[miacomet]

I totally get that and agree with that sentiment. Compared to a private group that keeps what they bill for, there is no question a CMG is a bad alternative. But such groups are hard to find. I think a more fair comparison is CMG vs Hospital employee, and in those cases Im not sure there is a huge difference other than career stability as a hospital employee. Because in either case of hospital employee vs CMG, for the most part you are earning a salary that doesnt compare to what you are billing for, and so in either case someone is making a good bit of money and subsidizing administrative costs off of your profits.

This is all true. I'm currently employed and we actually make more than we bill (don't worry, it won't last), and while "nonprofit" has lost its meaning, to me it's less offensive than working for a profit-driven non-medical entity beholden only to shareholders, and I think hospitals that employ their own ED docs are more invested in the ED that those that outsource to a corporate entity. And the stability you mention is actually a huge deal for many docs with families in desirable areas- hard when you lose your job at the one gig in town.

 

[deleted109597]

Ever tried to find 100 physicians in a matter of days to fill multiple ER's?

Don't promise you can then.
Look, they made promises. They have continued to fail them. This isn't just last January. This is continual.
I'm not saying Summa doesn't have some fault, but you can't act like USACS is faultless here.

 

[miacomet]

Don't promise you can then.
Look, they made promises. They have continued to fail them. This isn't just last January. This is continual.
I'm not saying Summa doesn't have some fault, but you can't act like USACS is faultless here.

Summa needs to step up and nix USACS.

 

[Apollyon]

Ever tried to find 100 physicians in a matter of days to fill multiple ER's?

That was the rationale when I was with an SDG in SC. They said that, with a non-compete clause, there was no way the CMGs could raise, in this case, 60 docs at one time.

 

[Tenk]

Before I say what I'm going to say, I'm not affiliated with USACS.

Why does everyone dump on USACS instead of Summa? It was Summa that contracted with USACS and got rid of the contract with the SDG because they could not come to an agreement.

Saying that USACS is at fault here is like saying the child is at fault for his father murdering someone.

If you know anything about the true story, USACS was not called in until it was seen that contract negotiations were not going to be met in time for Summa Emergency Associates to continue their contract (which expired on 31 December). SEA was wanting a 15-year contract, which is unheard of with EM contracts. Summa requested a 30-day extension, but SEA denied it. SEA and Summa didn't meet face-to-face until the week before. That's the fault of both parties. SEA requested a 7-day extension, but Summa countered with a 14-day extension. SEA didn't budge. They sent their final offer, which Summa didn't like. SEA stood their ground, Summa didn't accept, and then must find an alternative. Summa had a phone conversation with USACS on Christmas Eve, but formal RFP's didn't go out until 12/27 with responses due by 12/29. USACS said they could do it and the rest is history. That's how it goes in business when you wait until the last minute. Even USACS CEO told Summa's president that the best solution is to work out an extension with their current group.

Do I agree with everything that happened? No. It was unfortunate and is probably a case study in many classes now. Hospital CEO's around the country will now give deep thought before ousting a group affiliated with a residency. The loss of regaining their accreditation solidifies any reticence at changing groups and the repercussions associated with doing so.

I am not involved but given that the USACS big wig and the chick from Summa are husband and wife I would bet everything I own that that is NOT how it went down. Do I know how it went down? No. Do I care? Not a lot. I just hate USACS and all other big groups with the same fiery passion I hate spiders, fibromyalgia and taxes.