Named School vs Unknown School

[DonnaMariaWHV]

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Hello everyone and thanks ahead of time if you can offer some advice!

I have a graduating high school student who is struggling to chose a college and because I never attended college and my husband went to University in another country with a vastly different educational system we are limited with how much advice we can give.

So far she has been accepted to all the colleges she applied to, but the two top ranking ones to her mind could not be more different from one another. I'm fairly certain one has a much better name than the other and has a well regarded psychology program however the other offers an accelerated Masters in the very specific Forensic Psychology major that she wants and is very cost effective. (And no, she's not one of the, "The CSI/SVU TV show is cool, I wanna do that!" kids. She wants to do clinical work. She may even want to pull apart a brain one day, I'm not sure, but she's that kind of kid.) Anyway, a PhD/PsyD is the end goal working for the FBI or another Government agency.

Penn State University Park vs John Jay College of Criminal Justice (I know neither one is Ivy but she's a very motivated, well rounded student. She is even going to graduate HS with a certificate in engineering. Sorry, mom brag moment, I digress...)

One with a good name, great Majors in the middle of nowhere, one lesser known in NYC with very limited, specific Majors for less than half the tuition. Of course there are other pros and cons but the big question is, how important is that Penn State name going to be in getting her to where she wants to go?

I'm happy to get any input at all. Seriously, anything. I just don't know how to guide her.

Thanks everyone, even if you've only just read the post. 🙂



"Is a hippopotamus a hippopotamus or just a really cool opotamus?"

- The Amazing Mitch Hedberg

 

[AcronymAllergy]

For undergrad, with respect to competitiveness for graduate school, a lot more will rest on what she does with her time than on the name brand of her school. If she starts volunteering in research labs early and gets involved in a few poster presentations or even publications, earns very good grades, and does well on the GRE, she will be competitive for graduate school (others here can chime in on additional things she can do).

The masters probably isn't going to help her very much. Also, what type of work does she anticipate actually wanting to do for the FBI or other government agency? When it comes to the FBI specifically, they hire very few Ph.D.-level people. Most of their folks are bachelor's level field agents with some law enforcement experience, even in the behavioral analysis unit (at least that's my understanding).

 

[Ollie123]

For undergrad, I would do Penn State hands down. More opportunities and greater diversity in training experiences. A master's in psychology doesn't necessarily get you much these days - I usually recommend alternate paths entirely (e.g. social work) unless someone wants the doctorate.

Neither school will wow anyone, but in psychology undergrad is really just about going to the "good enough" one so you then move on to grad school.

All this may change depending on how deadset vs. tenuous her goals are (and how often she changes her mind!). Switching majors is far from uncommon. Many (most?) people do not end up in the exact field they studied in undergrad. She has to really excel to have a chance at a doctorate. If you think there is ANY possibility of her wanting to switch paths, I would probably go elsewhere. Not for the name, just for the breadth.

 

[Sanman]

I'm familiar with both schools and I would echo what @AcronymAllergy said. The FBI seldom requires PHD level employees. If she wants to pursue a career in law enforcement, John Jay can helpful due to their criminal justice specialty and some connections there. That said, I am not an expert in law enforcement careers. For graduate school in psychology, Penn State is great. The only thing to consider is whether she will thrive at such a large school generally. The research opportunities are certainly there. Beyond that, mental health is not the highest paying of careers and is a long road. Keep the debt as low as possible. I am a big fan of state schools for that reason.

If I could go back and do it over again, the only thing that I would change is going to the state school where I got a scholarship rather than the more competitive state college I chose to attend. Good Luck.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

At this point, I doubt your child (?) - or most people - is well informed about the field of psychology and especially doctoral training. worry that you are putting the cart before the horse. I can tell you that from my experience the vast majority of undergrad students that come to me at freshman year saying they want to go to a doctoral program change their mind by senior year.

I recommend she picks the college that makes the most financial (i.e., for PA residents Penn State is much more affordable, for NYC residents John Jay is even more affordable) and life sense (State College, PA and NYC are two very different types of cities). Both schools will have enough varied opportunities to provide a quality psychology undergrad experience. I would also carefully examine whether a Forensic Psychology masters is worthwhile. This is not a license-eligible degree and is purely academic. Since your child has yet to experience college-level psychology and all the potential careers and fields within psychology you may be making an uniformed decision.

Simply speaking, at this point find a decent college that will reduce any potential debt burden. Spend some time learning about the very large field of psychology. Then start thinking about plans after college and work towards those plans.

 

[PsyDr]

The FBI predominantly recruits their professional staff from law schools. The behavioral analysis unit has extremely few psychologists (two IIRC). So John Jay might offer more opportunities to find an FBI affiliate due to its law school.

 

[DonnaMariaWHV]

Thank you to everyone for your thoughts and advice.

I sat with my husband and daughter and we went through all your responses and it really helped her to put in to words what she wants from her degree. In her words, she wants Psychology to be the tool she uses to work in the criminal justice system.

Our daughter is tenacious and as much as I would say "never say never", she is unlikely to change her direction. She started learning Russian online over a year ago because it was a preferred language the FBI was looking for in its recruits, just as an example of her determination. She didn't tell us, she just did it.

This afternoon she was awarded entrance into an Honors College with a rather large scholarship. I don't think it changes our top two choices as it's a medium/lower tiered school, but it was a nice self-esteem boost none-the-less. 🙂

Again, thanks everyone, we are all very grateful.



"I like to play blackjack. I'm not addicted to gambling. I'm addicted to sitting in a semi-circle."

- The incomparable Mitch Hedberg

 

[AbnormalPsych]

The FBI predominantly recruits their professional staff from law schools. The behavioral analysis unit has extremely few psychologists (two IIRC). So John Jay might offer more opportunities to find an FBI affiliate due to its law school.

Side question: You watch Mindhunter on Netlix yet? I would love to hear the ramblings of @PsyDr on this show.

 

[WisNeuro]

Side question: You watch Mindhunter on Netlix yet? I would love to hear the ramblings of @PsyDr on this show.

I've actually met one of the people that the characters is based on, he is....an interesting guy.

 

[psych.meout]

Side question: You watch Mindhunter on Netlix yet? I would love to hear the ramblings of @PsyDr on this show.

Second season isn't as good as the first. I really like the subtle telegraphed criticism of profiling by interjecting scenes with BTK.

 

[PsyDr]

Side question: You watch Mindhunter on Netlix yet? I would love to hear the ramblings of @PsyDr on this show.

I’ve seen it; but I don’t think I’ve seen many “true” serial killers. Go watch the Green River Killer's interviews. We're not dealing with the top brass here.

Rant:

At first I was forgiving because the science wasn’t really there back when that show is set.

Then I thought, “A bunch of women go missing or raped and the protagonist who looks like the animation from the “money for nothing” video didn’t think to interrogate the giant who was convicted of decapitating his own mother and using her severed head to masturbate?! I’m not a law enforcement guy, but I would think that’s pretty much who you go talk to day one.

And Manson never killed anyone. He was a car thief, who’s plan was a half cocked combination of *****ic and racist . He wanted to precipitate a race war, hide out in the desert, and then wait for the AA people to completely genocide the white people. And then, he thought that the AA people, despite being smart and organized enough to conquer the majority of the USA, would then suddenly need leadership after the fact. Yeah, that's the move that all conquers go to after the fact. And then the group that murdered everyone based upon their skin color would suddenly make an exception to the genocide, because ????? This is someone that needs a mindhunter? Let me help you out with that investigation: “Hey, anyone know of a sketchy idiot that’s really into the Beatles? Cool, let's go interrogate him." Case closed.