Need a crash course in managed care

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I'm embarrassingly out of the loop when it comes to the basics of managed care, HMO's, etc...I do keep up with medically-related (and other) news stories, but for some reason I think I've missed out on some of the general themes of what's going on (although I do know the frustration of dealing with insurance companies!).

So now I'm trying to prepare for my three upcoming interviews, and I want to be able to answer semi-intelligently if I get asked questions about managed care, the future of medicine, etc.

Is there any website, book, other source that can fill me in on the basics?

Karen44

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exmike- can you check if that link is right and post it again?...the link gave me an error page when I tried it.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Originally posted by exmike
www.kff.org


go it, read it, do it

i went it, did it, but couldn't read it... 😛

r u sure u got the right address, mike?
 
Jlee9531 gave me this link when I needed some info...

www.publicagenda.org

They provide info on several issues, healthcare being one of them. Just select 'Healthcare' from the drop down menu under Public Agenda Issue Guides on the bottom left.

Hope that helps...
 
hmm thats wierd

www.kff.org is the kaiser family foundation website. a crapload of info on current health issues, health policy research, etc.

maybe it'll come back online later. its my fave health issues site.
 
If you want to read a book, you can take a look at The Economic Evolution of American Healthcare. I think that's the title.
 
Originally posted by karen44
Need a crash course in managed care ...

5 points to the person who can succinctly put managed care into 10 sentences or less. The key words are "crash course".
 
you can best sum up a lot of issues in health care by restating the questions that are at the heart of it?

1. is health care a right or a privilege for all? it has been argued that HMOs keep costs down, but since they're run like businesses they keep em down by cutting corners and stressing staff.
2. should pain management be an integral part of managed care? this ties into the primary purpose of medicine, in that sickness/pain are THE most common chief complaint, but since pain is always subjective, so can managed care's role in paying for it.
3. do pharma companies help or hinder managed care costs? sometimes pharma companies make exclusive contracts with HMOs, so that docs can only prescribe certain meds instead of generics.
4. can the business of helping people be considered a business? if HMOs encourage # of patients seen instead of throughput of pts, does this run contrary to the objective of medicine? doesnt that encourage treatment of richer, more educated, more acutely diseased people?

be able to have at least thoughts on both sides of the issue. you dont necessarily have to pick sides, but at least show that you've studied the issues enough to not just hop to one conclusion as many people do.

i think that's 9
 
I checked out public agenda, thankyou jlee groupie, and found this interesting tidbit:

Three Perspectives
Our Framing the Debate section sets out three alternative approaches to the problem:

* From one perspective, rising costs are still the main problem with the U. S. health care system. Accordingly, in that view, reforms should focus on containing costs.
* A second perspective, which is concerned chiefly with medical coverage, insists on recognizing a universal right to health care.
* A third perspective is primarily concerned with the quality of health care and the importance of ensuring the best health care possible.


Which do you think is most important? I have to say that realistically C is not as important because it basically precludes HMOs. Although HMOs can comprimise top-notch health care they seem to be necessary to support A to a great extent and B to a lesser extent.
 
Originally posted by DrBodacious
I checked out public agenda, thankyou jlee groupie, and found this interesting tidbit:

Three Perspectives
Our Framing the Debate section sets out three alternative approaches to the problem:

* From one perspective, rising costs are still the main problem with the U. S. health care system. Accordingly, in that view, reforms should focus on containing costs.
* A second perspective, which is concerned chiefly with medical coverage, insists on recognizing a universal right to health care.
* A third perspective is primarily concerned with the quality of health care and the importance of ensuring the best health care possible.


Which do you think is most important? I have to say that realistically C is not as important because it basically precludes HMOs. Although HMOs can comprimise top-notch health care they seem to be necessary to support A to a great extent and B to a lesser extent.

I've said this before in other threads, so I'll say it again.

DONT WALK INTO AN INTERVIEW SAYING HMO'S ARE ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES IN HEALTH CARE.

HMO's are minor players in the health insurance market as they are higher cost than PPO's - the predominant form of insurance.

The underlying issue at hand which encompasses all three issues you listed is adequately and prudently rationing a finite service (health care) in light of an insatiable demand for it.

The demand for health care is only limited by our inability to supply an unlimited supply of it. Since demand is high, simple economics tells us that costs will be driven up. Correspondingly, since supply is low, universal coverage as a right is far-fetched. Since demand is high and supply is low, simple economics also predicts that the quality of care will suffer, and it does.

Issues affecting the supply/demand of health care: 1) An aging population that requires more expensive services and end of life care along with fewer younger taxpayers to support their needs 2) Torts: practitioners provide care in excess of what an individual needs in order to cover themselves in case of lawsuits (better safe than sorry) 3) Medical breakthroughs pushes the along the cutting edge, which is both expensive and labor intensive. Think of it this way, a single MRI scan here is enough to provide health care for several dozen families in a developing country. 4) consumer demand for greater range of services - related to #3, 5) Cost shifting by drug companies necessiates the extraction of greatest profit from wealty nations 6) for-profit health insurance companies virtually ensure that price of services will increase year over year 7) increasing population of undocumated immigrants along with preexisting indigent populations that do not recieve the primary care they need, and thus end up in secondary or tertiary care units (emergency rooms, ICU's) which cost taxpayers an exorbitant amount of money many times more than if those groups had received preventative health care to being with.

I'm missing some, but those are some of the factors driving health care costs, which in turn create the three scenarios you listed.
 
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Good stuff exMike. I guess I was naive in saying HMOs when what I should have said was any cost cutting/corner cutting managed care program? What is a PPO? I know PPS (pay per service)😕
 
Originally posted by DrBodacious
Good stuff exMike. I guess I was naive in saying HMOs when what I should have said was any cost cutting/corner cutting managed care program? What is a PPO? I know PPS (pay per service)😕

i think you mean FFS (fee for service)

PPO is preferred provider organization which is essentially discounted FFS
 
I just read a book called Severed Trust by George Lumberg. Its very good and explains a lot of the US health care system.
 
Employers and workers pay higher premiums for health Insurance ...docs and hospitals get lower reimbursements...and insurance company execs all drive expensive German cars....anything else you hear is just a load of bull.
 
Originally posted by brand990
I just read a book called Severed Trust by George Lumberg. Its very good and explains a lot of the US health care system.

Lumberg

reminds me of Office Space

"Umm... yeah, so I'll need you to come in on saturday..."
 
Originally posted by exmike
Lumberg

reminds me of Office Space

"Umm... yeah, so I'll need you to come in on saturday..."

Yeah..........
 
Originally posted by exmike
Lumberg

reminds me of Office Space

"Umm... yeah, so I'll need you to come in on saturday..."

LOL :laugh: :laugh:
 
calling-your-doctor-and-speaking-to-them?

dod-you-ever-think-about-talkibg-to-a-real-md??-or-are-you-better-with-books?
 
1. Managed care is a cost-containment measure. It's very purpose is to MINIMIZE the cost of health care. One way that HMO's and PPO's, both of which are examples of managed care, minimize the cost of health care is to require prior approval for hospitalization, which is VERY expensive. Costly procedures or tests also require prior approval. At their very best, managed care organizations efficiently provide excellent health care at a moderate overall cost; at their worst, they provide poor health care (there are particularly egregious instances of this) without any financial savings. Indeed, the fundamental problem associated with managed care, from a financial standpoint anyways, is that there is a fine line between efficiency and medical malpractice--managed care organizations strive for the former but often wind up with the latter. When the bottom line (i.e., profit) supplants the patient as the primary concern of a health care delivery system, the patient will suffer. BTW: According to several scholars of public health, managed care has been a failure from the vantage point of cost containment. The United States continues to spend more than any other industrialized nation on health care (as a percentage of GDP), and yet the US has some of the worst health outcomes among these nations. Simply put: the health care system in the US remains ridiculously inefficient, the existence of managed care notwithstanding.

2. Managed care restricts the autonomy of physicians. This is a major issue for physicians who are part of HMO's. HMO physicians are not afforded as much latitude in their medical decisionmaking as physicians who are not affiliated with any HMO. Here's a classic scenario: a patient goes to a primary care physician (e.g., a family doc) because of abdominal pain. The family doc assesses the condition of the patient and concludes that the patient needs to undergo an expensive surgery by a specialist. The family doc has to function as a "patient advocate," meaning that he/she must CONVINCE the HMO that the surgery is necessary. Prior to HMO's, no "patient advocacy" was required for a referral to a specialist. Nowadays, primary care physicians function as "gatekeepers," meaning that they control the flow of patients to care of specialists. As gatekeepers, primary care physicians must assume a dual role--i.e., they must constantly juggle both the corporate interests (profit margin) and patient interests. Sadly, the former often trumps the latter, and the patient suffers.
Specialists often do not have as much latitude regarding expensive tests and procedures. If a specialist wants to run an MRI, the HMO may not reimburse him/her for this test; without reimbursement, the specialist will not run the test. This can lead to catastrophic results for patients, because certain expensive tests are vital extensions of a physician's eyes and ears--they enable physicians to make tough diagnoses. If a condition goes undiagnosed, an easily treatable condition can escalate into a very costly, life-threatening disorder. There are numerous instances of this in medical literature, and I myself know a person who suffered (lost an organ) from the excessive cost containment measures of HMO's.

3. Managed care interferes with the doctor-patient relationship. In addition to the patient advocacy discussed above, some HMO's set caps on the amount of time that a doctor can spend with a patient during consultations (e.g., 15 minutes). Others provide "capitation payments" to physicians in the HMO, meaning that they are reimbursed at a flat rate for patients, regardless of medical conditions treated. In effect, there is no financial incentive for physicians subject to capitation payments to spend extra time with certain patients, since they get $100/patient or whatever. Capitation plans force primary care physicians to increase the volume of patients that they see every day, thereby decreasing the amount of time that physicians spend with each patient. When profit becomes paramount, the patient suffers.

4. Managed care restricts the choice of providers for patients, a restriction that borders on the absurd in some cases. In principle, patients in a particular HMO or PPO can see any physician they want; in practice, this is not true, because HMO's typically require considerably higher copayments for services rendered by doctors, who are not part of the HMO or PPO. Case in point: I have a $20 copayment for outpatient care by any "preferred provider"; however, I can see any physician, provided that I am willing and able to pay 50% of the cost out-of-pocket. What the hell kind of "choice" is that? If the cost of a doctor's visit is 400 bucks, then I can either pay $20 at a preferred provider or $200 at some non-preferred provider. Geee, I think I'll "choose" the former. In some documented cases, preferred providers or physicians in the HMO are not even in the same city as the patient!

I have presented a negative portrait of managed care, because I think that managed care represents a failed attempt at fixing our nation's broken health care system. Nonetheless, there are benefits to the managed care approach. As I said before, managed care, at its best, provides excellent health care in an efficient and financially sound manner. By minimizing hospital stays, restricting access to the expensive care of specialists, and eliminating unnecessary tests and procedures, the cost of health care in America can be contained in a safe manner, provided that profit does not override the well-being of the patient. Moreover, managed care organizations offer doctors more relaxed schedules (e.g., less call), which is good for recent med school grads who favor the "shift" mentality. In spite of these perceived benefits, managed care in reality presents an inexcusable intrusion into the doctor-patient relationship, damper on the authority of physicians, and threat to the health of patients.

Hope this helps.

BTW: If you want a good introduction to health care in America, you ought to read the following books: The Social Transformation of American Medicine, As Sick As It Gets, Health Care Meltdown, Bleeding the Patient: The Consequences of Corporate Health Care, and the textbook for a survey medical sociology course.
 
There are no benefits to managedcare- I think class of 2008 you will need to stick yourself in for 3 years post residency in the real world before you quote what you have learned from books.
Unless you are a physician in the real world In my opinion its like me talking about flying to the moon and back from a book.

Managed care in the US has destroyed the health care field and has caused most of my colleagues to go into other fields. manged care is great for greey corporations who have to make profits-it has nothing to do with giving good health care

But what do i know-i have only been a physician since 1985
 
Originally posted by Dr.Wolkower
There are no benefits to managedcare- I think class of 2008 you will need to stick yourself in for 3 years post residency in the real world before you quote what you have learned from books.
Unless you are a physician in the real world In my opinion its like me talking about flying to the moon and back from a book.

Managed care in the US has destroyed the health care field and has caused most of my colleagues to go into other fields. manged care is great for greey corporations who have to make profits-it has nothing to do with giving good health care

But what do i know-i have only been a physician since 1985

You know, instead of jumping in and shooting down everyone else's attempts at explaining managed healthcare, you could help by elaborating on your real-world experience by giving us a clearer description of the situation. I.E. put your thoughts into words.

On a side note. This is the pre-allopathic forum, so by its nature will be filled full of pre-allopathic forum users that are trying to figure things out. Much like teenagers talking about sex, I'm sure the managed health-care experience is also ineffable in many ways. But cut us some slack, we just want to get our butts seated in a first year class by finding some way to talk intelligently about managed healthcare during our interviews. Don't shoot those down that try.

Take this as objective advice.
 
Originally posted by MDTom
You know, instead of jumping in and shooting down everyone else's attempts at explaining managed healthcare, you could help by elaborating on your real-world experience by giving us a clearer description of the situation. I.E. put your thoughts into words.

On a side note. This is the pre-allopathic forum, so by its nature will be filled full of pre-allopathic forum users that are trying to figure things out. Much like teenagers talking about sex, I'm sure the managed health-care experience is also ineffable in many ways. But cut us some slack, we just want to get our butts seated in a first year class by finding some way to talk intelligently about managed healthcare during our interviews. Don't shoot those down that try.

Take this as objective advice.

MDTom, I think he's a troll.

Atleast, in this post, he didn't hyphenate everything.
 
Dr.Wolkower is a very interesting physician ... look at his website, http://www.medschool-residency-survivor.com/index.html.

Since he attempted to analyze health care, I'll attempt to analyze him (all in good fun doc..):

He's one of those doctors that didn't sleep in medical school, worked his tail off, (aka "nerdy doc"), didn't relax enough, didn't date, lived by the biochemistry texts. And now he's "angry at the system". Unfortunately I see these physicians a lot at the hospital. They often keep to themselves, vent at the nurses, feel that "since I was trained this way, you will be trained the same way". They're doctors that we definitely need, highly dedicated and love to do research...however they're not the type that have balance in their life, not highly personable, and dislike chit-chat.

I tend to feel that doctors can be classified as two different types (I know I'm really reaching here...): humanistic doctors (often pediatrics, geriatrics, GI docs...those that truly enjoy patients, not really in it for the money, fame, or science), and the science docs (MD/PhD's, surgeons, or other highly specialized/competitive fields). It is when a humanistic doc gets into a "sciency" field, or verse visa, that problems arise.....

Just a random stab at it...
 
The above becomes even more evident if you look at his replies in the shrink forum! Just plain angry at the system!
 
"...In spite of these perceived benefits, managed care in reality presents an inexcusable intrusion into the doctor-patient relationship, damper on the authority of physicians, and threat to the health of patients."

I guess this statement escaped the attention of Dr. Wolkower. What the hell is up with that criticism? Did you even read all of what I wrote? I think managed care sucks ass. One more thing: several of the "books," from which I base my opinion on the matter, were written by experienced physicians just like yourself. So don't give me that load of horsesh*t that my lack of experience with managed care automatically discredits my opinion on the matter. My opinion reflects the conclusions of the physicians who wrote these books; thus, when you discredit my opinion, you attack your colleagues who, like yourself, strongly dislike managed care.
 
Originally posted by elias514
1. Managed care is a cost-containment measure. It's very purpose is to MINIMIZE the cost of health care. One way that HMO's and PPO's, both of which are examples of managed care, minimize the cost of health care is to require prior approval for hospitalization, which is VERY expensive. Costly procedures or tests also require prior approval. At their very best, managed care organizations efficiently provide excellent health care at a moderate overall cost; at their worst, they provide poor health care (there are particularly egregious instances of this) without any financial savings. Indeed, the fundamental problem associated with managed care, from a financial standpoint anyways, is that there is a fine line between efficiency and medical malpractice--managed care organizations strive for the former but often wind up with the latter. When the bottom line (i.e., profit) supplants the patient as the primary concern of a health care delivery system, the patient will suffer. BTW: According to several scholars of public health, managed care has been a failure from the vantage point of cost containment. The United States continues to spend more than any other industrialized nation on health care (as a percentage of GDP), and yet the US has some of the worst health outcomes among these nations. Simply put: the health care system in the US remains ridiculously inefficient, the existence of managed care notwithstanding.

2. Managed care restricts the autonomy of physicians. This is a major issue for physicians who are part of HMO's. HMO physicians are not afforded as much latitude in their medical decisionmaking as physicians who are not affiliated with any HMO. Here's a classic scenario: a patient goes to a primary care physician (e.g., a family doc) because of abdominal pain. The family doc assesses the condition of the patient and concludes that the patient needs to undergo an expensive surgery by a specialist. The family doc has to function as a "patient advocate," meaning that he/she must CONVINCE the HMO that the surgery is necessary. Prior to HMO's, no "patient advocacy" was required for a referral to a specialist. Nowadays, primary care physicians function as "gatekeepers," meaning that they control the flow of patients to care of specialists. As gatekeepers, primary care physicians must assume a dual role--i.e., they must constantly juggle both the corporate interests (profit margin) and patient interests. Sadly, the former often trumps the latter, and the patient suffers.
Specialists often do not have as much latitude regarding expensive tests and procedures. If a specialist wants to run an MRI, the HMO may not reimburse him/her for this test; without reimbursement, the specialist will not run the test. This can lead to catastrophic results for patients, because certain expensive tests are vital extensions of a physician's eyes and ears--they enable physicians to make tough diagnoses. If a condition goes undiagnosed, an easily treatable condition can escalate into a very costly, life-threatening disorder. There are numerous instances of this in medical literature, and I myself know a person who suffered (lost an organ) from the excessive cost containment measures of HMO's.

3. Managed care interferes with the doctor-patient relationship. In addition to the patient advocacy discussed above, some HMO's set caps on the amount of time that a doctor can spend with a patient during consultations (e.g., 15 minutes). Others provide "capitation payments" to physicians in the HMO, meaning that they are reimbursed at a flat rate for patients, regardless of medical conditions treated. In effect, there is no financial incentive for physicians subject to capitation payments to spend extra time with certain patients, since they get $100/patient or whatever. Capitation plans force primary care physicians to increase the volume of patients that they see every day, thereby decreasing the amount of time that physicians spend with each patient. When profit becomes paramount, the patient suffers.

4. Managed care restricts the choice of providers for patients, a restriction that borders on the absurd in some cases. In principle, patients in a particular HMO or PPO can see any physician they want; in practice, this is not true, because HMO's typically require considerably higher copayments for services rendered by doctors, who are not part of the HMO or PPO. Case in point: I have a $20 copayment for outpatient care by any "preferred provider"; however, I can see any physician, provided that I am willing and able to pay 50% of the cost out-of-pocket. What the hell kind of "choice" is that? If the cost of a doctor's visit is 400 bucks, then I can either pay $20 at a preferred provider or $200 at some non-preferred provider. Geee, I think I'll "choose" the former. In some documented cases, preferred providers or physicians in the HMO are not even in the same city as the patient!

I have presented a negative portrait of managed care, because I think that managed care represents a failed attempt at fixing our nation's broken health care system. Nonetheless, there are benefits to the managed care approach. As I said before, managed care, at its best, provides excellent health care in an efficient and financially sound manner. By minimizing hospital stays, restricting access to the expensive care of specialists, and eliminating unnecessary tests and procedures, the cost of health care in America can be contained in a safe manner, provided that profit does not override the well-being of the patient. Moreover, managed care organizations offer doctors more relaxed schedules (e.g., less call), which is good for recent med school grads who favor the "shift" mentality. In spite of these perceived benefits, managed care in reality presents an inexcusable intrusion into the doctor-patient relationship, damper on the authority of physicians, and threat to the health of patients.

Hope this helps.

BTW: If you want a good introduction to health care in America, you ought to read the following books: The Social Transformation of American Medicine, As Sick As It Gets, Health Care Meltdown, Bleeding the Patient: The Consequences of Corporate Health Care, and the textbook for a survey medical sociology course.

Thank you for this post. This is exactly the ammunition I need to successfully handle my interviews with. :clap: :clap: 😀
 
don't forget that during interviews, nothing you say is really wrong if you believe in it (and can prove so).
 
btw, dr. wolkower is A) a salesman and B) an osteopath ... obviously he's got an ulterior motive here.
 
Originally posted by elias514
"...In spite of these perceived benefits, managed care in reality presents an inexcusable intrusion into the doctor-patient relationship, damper on the authority of physicians, and threat to the health of patients."

I guess this statement escaped the attention of Dr. Wolkower. What the hell is up with that criticism? Did you even read all of what I wrote? I think managed care sucks ass.

Obviously, Dr. Wolkower did miss the above quote. I am not sure that he criticized you or any one here though. Except you, most of us probably will realize how bad this system hurts (everyone but the "manager") only when we actually treat our patients. I know how and why the doctor is so angry. Almost all of his colleagues do. But anger always ******s the ability to communicate, efficiently.
 
Originally posted by Dr.Wolkower
There are no benefits to managedcare- I think class of 2008 you will need to stick yourself in for 3 years post residency in the real world before you quote what you have learned from books.
Unless you are a physician in the real world In my opinion its like me talking about flying to the moon and back from a book.

Managed care in the US has destroyed the health care field and has caused most of my colleagues to go into other fields. manged care is great for greey corporations who have to make profits-it has nothing to do with giving good health care

But what do i know-i have only been a physician since 1985

The tone of your posts suggest that you are lying. If you have been a physician since 1985 you should be ashamed of how you presented yourself here.
 
Wow, thanks for all the replies and discussion...I've been away for a day or two and haven't gotten a chance to read through all of them yet, but just wanted to say thanks for the input.

Karen44
 
Originally posted by calcrew14
Obviously, Dr. Wolkower did miss the above quote. I am not sure that he criticized you or any one here though. Except you, most of us probably will realize how bad this system hurts (everyone but the "manager") only when we actually treat our patients. I know how and why the doctor is so angry. Almost all of his colleagues do. But anger always ******s the ability to communicate, efficiently.


As I said before, managed care, at its best, provides excellent health care in an efficient and financially sound manner. By minimizing hospital stays, restricting access to the expensive care of specialists, and eliminating unnecessary tests and procedures, the cost of health care in America can be contained in a safe manner, provided that profit does not override the well-being of the patient. Moreover, managed care organizations offer doctors more relaxed schedules (e.g., less call

The above paragraph in my opinion just makes me upset.

I have been told to discharge people the next day after admission for chest pain or a suicide attempt and when you becime a physician-you will understand this disgusting feeling when an HMo represntative tells you you myust discharge!
I never listen to them but many of my colleagues do-this is not how medicine wwas supposed to be practiced.
Everyone out there-how would you like your immediate family-your mother your wife your child your girlfriend-to be denied inpatient care the day after they are admitted because "they minimize hosptial stays"

That really touches a sore point in me.

I hope I did not offend anyone and I wish you all a Happy and healthy New Year
good luck to all
 
Allow me to reiterate my overall point, Dr. Wolkower. Basically I said that there are appallingly sh*tty HMO's out there and there are exemplary ones. Of course, the former far outnumber the latter, and I suspect that you are part of a crappy HMO that prioritizes the "bottom line" over the well-being of patients and excessively circumscribes the authority of physicians. In my opinion, HMO's represent a FAILED ATTEMPT AT ESTABLISHING A FINANCIALLY SOUND HEALTH CARE SYSTEM that not only respects the authority of physicians but also the health care needs of patients.
 
Originally posted by elias514
Allow me to reiterate my overall point, Dr. Wolkower. Basically I said that there are appallingly sh*tty HMO's out there and there are exemplary ones. Of course, the former far outnumber the latter, and I suspect that you are part of a crappy HMO that prioritizes the "bottom line" over the well-being of patients and excessively circumscribes the authority of physicians. In my opinion, HMO's represent a FAILED ATTEMPT AT ESTABLISHING A FINANCIALLY SOUND HEALTH CARE SYSTEM that not only respects the authority of physicians but also the health care needs of patients.

You should never suspect or assume-I have nothing to do with HMOS as most physicians,I have higher standards.

have a good day
 
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