Need advice for D.O. prep.

[cosmicstarr]

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I previously asked SDN people for advice on how I should prepare to apply to D.O. schools and everyone gave some really good advice. Since then, I have learned few new things that will affect how I will prepare.

I have a B.S. in Biological Sciences from 1994. For my degree, I have taken all the prerequisites. After contacting about (8) D.O. schools that I’m interested in, they all advised that the classes do not expire, so I will probably not retake any of the prerequisites because I have mostly B, B+s, even some A-s. I’m thinking of doing a self review of Bio, Chem, O-Chem and Physics and possibly enrolling in a Princenton Review (Hyperlearning) class for the MCAT. I took this class back in 1993 and from what I remember, they provide a lot of study material and pretty much review/teach all the subjects. Hopefully, this will be enough. I scored a 28 (3 for writing) back in 1993, so with a lot of intense review and practice, I’m hoping to have at least a repeat performance.

I also have a B.S. in Electronics Engineering Technology. Luckily for D.O. schools, engineering and electronics classes count as part of the science GPA, so my science is 3.42 and overall is 3.50.

1) I am planning to take several upper divison bio classes: Biochem 1, 2, and 3. Cell Bio, and Developmental Bio at UCLA extension and UC Berkeley extension online for an Immunology class. Do you think adcom’s will want to see me taking a full time science course load for these upper division bio classes??? I was hoping to keep my current job and continue working and save money for medical school. I will probably take a maximum of 1 or 2 science classes a quarter while working full time and volunteering/shadowing.

2) My concern is that the immunology classs is online. Are online classes acceptable??? Hopefully, it won’t make too much of a difference since this class is not a required prerequisite. I’m thinking it will give me a little more preparation prior to attending medical school.

3) Since I need a recommendation letter from a liberal arts teacher for certain schools, I was thinking of enrolling in an english or speech class at a community college. Do you think this would be acceptable? Or do I need to enroll in a 4 year university for this?

I was really encouraged when I found out that engineering counts as science, unlike for Allopathic school. Originally, my science GPA (B,C,P) was about 2.95. Now, with the engineering classes, it is a 3.42! I hope to further strengthen this with the upper division bio classes that I'm determined to do well in.

Thanks in advanced.

 

[DownonthePharm]

Unless it is noted somewhere on the transcript or course name that Immunology is online they wont know, and if they do, so what. Most online courses require you to take proctored exams, and you have to self pace yourself with the material, so its not like it automatically makes it a cake walk.

 

[MoosePilot]

1) I am planning to take several upper divison bio classes: Biochem 1, 2, and 3. Cell Bio, and Developmental Bio at UCLA extension and UC Berkeley extension online for an Immunology class. Do you think adcom’s will want to see me taking a full time science course load for these upper division bio classes??? I was hoping to keep my current job and continue working and save money for medical school. I will probably take a maximum of 1 or 2 science classes a quarter while working full time and volunteering/shadowing.

2) My concern is that the immunology classs is online. Are online classes acceptable??? Hopefully, it won’t make too much of a difference since this class is not a required prerequisite. I’m thinking it will give me a little more preparation prior to attending medical school.

3) Since I need a recommendation letter from a liberal arts teacher for certain schools, I was thinking of enrolling in an english or speech class at a community college. Do you think this would be acceptable? Or do I need to enroll in a 4 year university for this?

I was really encouraged when I found out that engineering counts as science, unlike for Allopathic school. Originally, my science GPA (B,C,P) was about 2.95. Now, with the engineering classes, it is a 3.42! I hope to further strengthen this with the upper division bio classes that I'm determined to do well in.

Thanks in advanced.

I don't think you need so many upper division science classes. Take the requirements and any that you want to help prepare for the MCAT (although in my experience concentrating on Princeton will yield great results). Your grades are good enough that I don't think you need to "prove" anything to admissions, unless you anticipate your MCAT being low.

I started that immunology class from Berekely extension via correspondence. It's a good class. I learned a lot, even though I eventually withdrew due to time pressures (active duty military service takes a lot of time and between that and the application process itself, I didn't want to neglect the job I have now just because I'm focused on my personal goals).

 

[cosmicstarr]

Thanks for the replies. I agree that an online class can be difficult because it requires discipline to keep up with the coursework and a lot of self-learning.

I started that immunology class from Berekely extension via correspondence. It's a good class. I learned a lot, even though I eventually withdrew due to time pressures (active duty military service takes a lot of time and between that and the application process itself, I didn't want to neglect the job I have now just because I'm focused on my personal goals).

MoosePilot,

How much time was required per week for this Immunology class? How was the online format? Did you learn a lot online or was most of the learning based on just reading the book(s)?

 

[MoosePilot]

MoosePilot,

How much time was required per week for this Immunology class? How was the online format? Did you learn a lot online or was most of the learning based on just reading the book(s)?

As mentioned, I did the correspondence version. The learning was almost all from the book (I'll send you the name of the book if you're interested when I get home in about a week) and a workbook specific to class. The class consisted of 10 sets of questions to answer, 1 paper, and one final exam. It was extremely difficult and the professor would not directly answer any question, but would rather hint around about what she wanted to see. I put a massive amount of time into the first assignment and got a high 90%, but she commented I went into too much detail. I put just as much time, but less detail in the second assignment. I got a low 80%, but she said that was the right amount of detail. Since my goal was to make an A, I was getting no teaching despite the steep pricetag, and (mostly) because I was having a time crunch between personal problems, active duty military service, and preparing to apply to medical school, I withdrew. I think it was a good class, but much too time intensive for the small amount of credit.

 

[stoleyerscrubz]

UNECOM suggests that you take their online biochem as an option for fulfilling their biochem requirement. There's one DO school that should not mind.

I've heard of people tracking down professors 10 years after completing a class with them and still being able to get an LOR. If you are near your school and had even the slightest amount of rapport with your profs it might be worth the shot to visit, mail, or email those profs and schedule a meeting or two to get the LOR.

If you are done with all the prereqs I'd only go into taking all of those upper division courses to get LORs if you are unable to get them from previous professors. I took a summer school science course so I could have an extra professor as backup for my science LOR and thank god for that since my LOR writer left my college and went AWOL.

Don't forget about finding some volunteer experience and tracking down a DO.

I'm thinking that you are working so if I was in your shoes I'd just finish my basic premed courses, get enough classes to get LORs. Volunteer. Do something interesting or take an interesting class. Save a good chunk of my schedule to do a lot of personal review for the MCAT or take an MCAT course.

I'm in the current application pool so I am not preaching the gospel. Good luck!

 

[cosmicstarr]

As mentioned, I did the correspondence version. The learning was almost all from the book (I'll send you the name of the book if you're interested when I get home in about a week) and a workbook specific to class. The class consisted of 10 sets of questions to answer, 1 paper, and one final exam. It was extremely difficult and the professor would not directly answer any question, but would rather hint around about what she wanted to see. I put a massive amount of time into the first assignment and got a high 90%, but she commented I went into too much detail. I put just as much time, but less detail in the second assignment. I got a low 80%, but she said that was the right amount of detail. Since my goal was to make an A, I was getting no teaching despite the steep pricetag, and (mostly) because I was having a time crunch between personal problems, active duty military service, and preparing to apply to medical school, I withdrew. I think it was a good class, but much too time intensive for the small amount of credit.

Thanks for the insight to the class, MoosePilot. It does sound difficult, especially if the professor did not want to directly answer and/or explain anything. It doesn't sound like much teaching was going on. I'll probably look for a class that I can take with face-to-face instruction.

 

[cosmicstarr]

UNECOM suggests that you take their online biochem as an option for fulfilling their biochem requirement. There's one DO school that should not mind.

I've heard of people tracking down professors 10 years after completing a class with them and still being able to get an LOR. If you are near your school and had even the slightest amount of rapport with your profs it might be worth the shot to visit, mail, or email those profs and schedule a meeting or two to get the LOR.

If you are done with all the prereqs I'd only go into taking all of those upper division courses to get LORs if you are unable to get them from previous professors. I took a summer school science course so I could have an extra professor as backup for my science LOR and thank god for that since my LOR writer left my college and went AWOL.

Don't forget about finding some volunteer experience and tracking down a DO.

I'm thinking that you are working so if I was in your shoes I'd just finish my basic premed courses, get enough classes to get LORs. Volunteer. Do something interesting or take an interesting class. Save a good chunk of my schedule to do a lot of personal review for the MCAT or take an MCAT course.

I'm in the current application pool so I am not preaching the gospel. Good luck!

Thanks for the advice, stoleyerscrubz. Two of the main reasons I'm planning to take more upper division bio classes are to prepare better for medical school and to get some recent letters of recommendations.

I suppose I can ask a professor of over 10+ years ago for a recommendation, but how much weight would this carry with adcom's??? If it's still valid, I may ask an O-chem professor who actually wrote me a letter of recommendation when I was applying for a Masters in Biomedical Engineering back in 1995. He was very laid back and actually told me to write the letter and he would sign it!

Some DO schools like Western/COMP require a liberal arts professor recommendation, so I would have to take something like an English class for that. I was thinking of maybe doing this at a community college.

As for volunteering, I definitely need more hours of that. I've found a physician I can shadow, but he's an MD. It seems a bit more difficult finding a DO.

 

[Hoberto]

Some DO schools like Western/COMP require a liberal arts professor recommendation, so I would have to take something like an English class for that. I was thinking of maybe doing this at a community college.

I was not required to send in a liberal arts letter for any of the schools I applied to because I haven't had a liberal arts class in 10 years. The schools I talked to just wanted me to substitute a letter from a boss or coworker. In my case, I used a PI letter. So, don't worry too much about taking a superfluous class unless you KNOW the school you are interested in will require the letter. Don't just go by their website....call and ask because your situation is non-trad.

My engineering courses were counted in my science GPA for both AMCAS and AACOMAS. If you are trying to stay close to home or are interested in MD, too, your science GPA should be similar for both schools. It is the math courses that can make a significant difference.

My husband took the MCAT in 1993 and after I took it in April we talked and realized that damn near everything is different! So, be prepared. The first practice test 3R is similar to the early 90's MCAT and the latest version 8 is closer to what we took this year.

I am also non-trad and applying this cycle with a BS in Biomed. Engr and an MS (in May!) in Chem Eng. If you have more questions that I might be able to help with let me know.

Good luck!!

 

[cosmicstarr]

I was not required to send in a liberal arts letter for any of the schools I applied to because I haven't had a liberal arts class in 10 years. The schools I talked to just wanted me to substitute a letter from a boss or coworker. In my case, I used a PI letter. So, don't worry too much about taking a superfluous class unless you KNOW the school you are interested in will require the letter. Don't just go by their website....call and ask because your situation is non-trad.

My engineering courses were counted in my science GPA for both AMCAS and AACOMAS. If you are trying to stay close to home or are interested in MD, too, your science GPA should be similar for both schools. It is the math courses that can make a significant difference.

My husband took the MCAT in 1993 and after I took it in April we talked and realized that damn near everything is different! So, be prepared. The first practice test 3R is similar to the early 90's MCAT and the latest version 8 is closer to what we took this year.

I am also non-trad and applying this cycle with a BS in Biomed. Engr and an MS (in May!) in Chem Eng. If you have more questions that I might be able to help with let me know.

Good luck!!

Thanks for the advice, Hoberto. How different is the MCAT now? I can imagine the Bio section is somewhat different. But it would seem the other sections, PS and Verbal, should be similar. Now, I'm wondering if a review class will be enough to prepare.

For allopathic schools, how did your engineering classes count as the BCPM GPA? From the AMCAS guidelines, it didn't seem that my engineering classes such as "Circuit Analysis", "Solid State Devices", "Digital Control Systems" courses would count under the BCPM GPA. It would be great for me if they did since I have mostly A's in my engineering classes.

Was your BME degree from 10 years ago? If so, did you use those professors for the science LORs?

Thanks.

 

[stoleyerscrubz]

The 6 engineering classes I took all went into my BCP GPA. It's not BCMP as DO schools don't count math into the science GPA.

There's some threads on some ways to find a DO to shadow.

 

[Hoberto]

I started undergrad in 1993 and finished my BS in 2002, so some of my engineering courses are more recent. I used primarily work references and a couple from the graduate program I am in now.

My engineering courses came under the following classifications: EECS, MECH, CHEE and BIOE....I don't think they really look all that close, you are free to designate them as you wish and the service (AMCAS/AACOMAS) will fix what they feel needs to be changed. For example, I had a class called biomedical electronics that was almost all math so I called it a math course, another class was transport, that was primarily chemistry/engineering so I gave it a chemistry designation....none of these were changed for me by AMCAS/AACOMAS. The ones I specified as engineering were counted as BCPM/BCP.

The number of questions for each section and the topics covered have changed somewhat. Some of this is just because we know more now than we did then....particularly in Bio. Also, the order is different...I don't think this matters much. It is best if you check out the practice tests from AAMC. I got mine from a college library for free. I think you'll be okay for review as long as you actually do the review. I didn't spend much time studying (stupid me) and my score reflects that. It's amazing how much stuff I just didn't remember from Chem1 and 2 and Bio 1 and2. There isn't a lot of stuff to memorize, mostly just concepts to understand.

There is a mentoring service through the AOA website. Try that to find a DO to shadow. You can also try contacting the education office of your local hospital if they have one. Otherwise, try the volunteer office.